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 NO fuel pump, rats got into it!

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bonabob
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PostSubject: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Sun 02 Apr 2017, 20:21

My dads silverwing trike was sitting for about 6 months, its a 2007 with 6k miles on it, was working perfect before he let it sit, he got a new battery and put new gas in it, and cranked with no luck.

I came over to look at it and basically ripped the entire thing apart finding there was a rats nest in there and two wires going to the fuel pump were bit in half. I also noticed the FI light blinks while cranking but no start. I also don't hear the 3 second fuel pump buzz. I also noticed the fuel gauge was flashing empty even though he put new fuel in and filled it. I soldered the two wires back together and boom, fuel gauge works, yet still no fuel pump sound and flashing FI light when cranking.

I'm really lost at this point, I don't know where else to check but know you guys probably do Smile

Any help would be awesome! thanks!







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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Sun 02 Apr 2017, 22:17

Not much of a courtesy Introduction on your part, however there are a Fuel Pump testing procedures on page 5-82 of the FSM. Double check for more OPEN circuits for the fuel pump power. Maybe run a 12V jumper direct to the pump: Br = 12V, G/P = ground.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!    Sun 02 Apr 2017, 23:07

Very popular also to vehicles parked for a extended period of time.
The critters are drawn to the soybean oil that is used in the manufacture of the plastic used for the wiring. You will find this discusion in a few places in the forum. Howard
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 00:09

Yea I know, couldn't believe the trail they left, lol.

That said, the only information I could find on this forum that talks about a similar issue, was a fuse/breaker/relay in the back left side of the bike. but not sure if that specific to fuel pump or also the started, because it does crank.

I personally have a 2006gsxr1000 and the service manual is 1 search on google away, there is no service manual like that for this bike without paying 70 bucks?

Does anyone have a screen shot of that page or 2, (5-82)? would really appreciate it.

Thanks for all the help so far!
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 01:20

Our two resident felines prevent those types of problems around here.
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 01:35

? what problems?

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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 10:58

Thanks for the suggestions. First step will be to go direct from the battery to the fuel pump. Thank you for identifying the Br & G/P wires. If the fuel pump comes on, I'll start working backwards and check all switches etc along the way. I ordered a service manual which will identify the wiring. I'm sure one of those pesky vermin got to a wire I don't see right now.
Thanks for the help, will keep you posted with my progress.
Bob
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 12:00

Those other two wires at the 4 Pin fuel pump connection are for the fuel gauge sending unit which operates on 5-volts. So do not mix up the wires.

The fuel return hose comes off Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) end of the fuel rail. It discharges the excess fuel back into the tank. You can disconnect that hose (at the tank) and put it in a small jar to monitor the fuel pump. You want to see 2.0 oz (US) at 10 sec run time when you momentarily turn the key ON or jump the (Br - G/P) pump circuit. HTH

Tim
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 03 Apr 2017, 12:07

The other 2 wires were chewed through. We soldered them back and sure enough my fuel gauge came back. Now it's on to the fuel pump. I'm sure after tracing all the wires I'll find another chewed wire, but first I'll make sure the pump operates.
Thank you again for the help and I'll keep posting.
Bob
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Thu 06 Apr 2017, 09:59

Mr Bob, any update on your fuel pump problem?

FYI that Br lead comes off the "Fuel Cut Off Relay" which, in turn, is fed via the Br/Bl wire from terminal #23 of the 'A' (black) terminal block on the ECM.

The relays (except for the headlight and horn) and the ECM are located behind the left side cover. And, not that there are any unneeded relays, but all of the relays on the Silverwing are interchangeable. So you might be able to sap them and see what happens. HTH

Tim
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Thu 06 Apr 2017, 10:25

Tim, thank you. We plan on working on this tonight, however my dear Grand daughter who just turned 9 dragged her electric scooter over the left wheel fender on the trike wheel and put 4 nice gouges in it. Oh well, the joy of being a grand pa. I'll keep you posted.
Bob
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Thu 06 Apr 2017, 20:56

So I tested the fuel pump and sure enough 12.xx volts, which tells me its working, before I ordered a new pump, I thought to tap the area with a hammer, gently, sure enough... zooooooommmm , fired right up!!

Thanks so much everyone, seems as if it was sitting for so long it was stuck, tried turning it off and on a few times, no issues!


Last edited by bonabob on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 02:22; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Thu 06 Apr 2017, 21:45

Best to use Seafoam (given your experience, 4oz per tank fill) in the next many tanksful to get rid of all the crud which has contaminated the tank, pump and fuel sending unit. Get two cans. Cheaper than a rescue truck.

Tim
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Thu 06 Apr 2017, 23:05

will do thanks!

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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 01:44

Well, the good news is that we are back on the road again. Thanks to all the help received on this forum my son and I were able to piece together what happened and how to fix it. We had it out a couple of times and it is running beautifully. One problem is a wobble in the steering when you let go of it. The front tire is 10 years old now with only 6,000 miles, but from sitting and not moving so much it probably developed an out of round or cupping structure. The new tire is ordered and will get that balanced and put on asap. The rear tire was changed out to a car type tire when the trike kit was installed 5 years ago. That should be good for quite a while.
Again thank you to all and I'll keep you posted on our future rides.

Bob
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 08:18

Front tires will cup and present as a slight low speed handlebar wobble if the bars are held loosly. That's on a standard Silver Wing. I suppose that adding a trike kit alters the steering geometry a bit so that the wobble might be more evident.

Congratulations on resolving the problem and getting back on the road. Effort = Results

Tim
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 08:41

Hasn't anyone heard of steering damper? common in sidecar set ups and probably necessary in trike conversions where fork is not altered for trail.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 13:45

The lady I sold my last Silverwing to had hers triked with no changes to the fork. No rake changes or damper. She's had it a couple of years now and hasn't had any wobbliing.
Six thousand miles on a front tire is enough to cause a bit of cupping, also known as scalloping. Goldwings have the notorious '35mph hands free wobble' as well the Silverwing and many other bikes. It usually goes away with a new front tire, for a while, and normally only happens at that speed range, especially when decelerating. I'm not sure I'd want to use a ten year old tire at speed, especially in a climate like Florida. If you can see any checking in the bottom of the tread grooves I'd replace the tire. You only have three tires so you need 'em all.
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 14:55

New tire is on order and should arrive next week. I'm sure that's the problem because it only started happening in the last year after the bike sat unmoved for 10 months. Plus I wouldn't do any high speed riding with a 10 year old tire regardless of the mileage. I ordered a Pirelli Diablo tire. I'll have it balanced and start riding again.
thanks for the help,

Bob
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Tue 11 Apr 2017, 22:24

I have Pirelli Diablos on both front and rear, bonabob. I had them mounted and balanced at Larson Cycle in Cambridge, MN. Then when I got them home I put a bottle of Ride-On in both of them before putting them back on the SWing. Ride-On both balances them and seals punctures. Hopefully I never have to find out if the puncture part works or not...
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bonabob
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Wed 19 Apr 2017, 00:13

We removed the tire and couldn't believe the cupping on the tire. Good news is that the new tire was mounted, balanced and installed and the trike is running smooth again. One thing I noticed in addition to the rats eating the wiring, was the pitting and rust that began forming on all the chrome pieces. The muffler tip and side piece plus the 4 large springs on the trike kit were beginning to show rust. I used a product shown on Jay Leno's Garage show called Quickway Brands Quick Glo Chrome Cleaner and rust remover. It removed the rust and brought a brilliant shine back to all the chrome. Like the rust was never there. I purchased it on Amazon and I can't say enough about this product.
Thanks again to all for your help......My wife and I are back on the road with our really sharp looking and smooth riding Silverwing Trike.
Bob
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Wed 19 Apr 2017, 14:49

A quick and dirty way to clean rust from chrome is to rub it with aluminum foil. Works pretty well for a quick job.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 11:41

I know this Issue has been resolved.

But,

I would also Pull the Air Filter and check it, I have had Mice Build a Nest, in the Air Filter Box, (they like a warm spot to nest in during the winter) and that has been full of Nesting materials in some bike I have owned as well as others that have discussed that problem with me.

My brother-in-laws 75' Goldwing was LOADED!!!! nesting materials, and Nuts shells, in the air filters, Air Box.

That is why I make a Rodent Lock out, to keep the Rodents from entering the air intake hole on the air filters, air box.

I put a piece of Stainless steel screen mesh, with 1/4" x 1/4" screen Mesh hole size, and wrap it Over and around the Air Box Intake hole/port and put on a ziptie,/ Tywrap, to hold it on.

It's just one less thing to think about.

A bouncy front suspension, I have corrected that with some Fork tuning on Goldwings, and Burgman 650 scoot in the past.


Last edited by hondos on Mon 24 Apr 2017, 16:59; edited 2 times in total
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: NO fuel pump, rats got into it!   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 14:43

New seals and a bit heavier oil can damp down a 'bouncy' fork nicely. Especially one that hasn't been touched in years.
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