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 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic

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cliffyk
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PostSubject: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:36 pm

I had noticed last spring and summer that the engine got a tiny bit "clattery" once it got hot and in the higher ambient temps (95° to 105° F), but had attributed it to its telling me an oil change was due (my 1990 Miata always let me know with a cold start clatter). So I just changed the oil (10W-30 synthetic) and then what passes for winter here (50° to 75° F) came and i just rode.

However earlier this month as we got back into the higher 80s/low 90s I once again heard the engine being a tad noisy so yesterday I loaded it up with Castrol's 20W-50 Actevo 4T semi-synthetic. Rode it about 25 miles after that, but got to ride 100+ today at 87°-90° F and at highway speeds (75 to 85 mph), to Daytona Beach and back.

The engine was quieter than it has ever been and as the coldest it ever gets here is 40° F, and the bike is garaged (it has never been below 50 in the garage), I guess I have found my year-round engine juice.
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PostSubject: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic    Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:44 am

I'm sure you will receive comments across the board on this one,but
as they say,what ever floats your boat. My 06 S/W has 55k and have used nothing but 10-40 none synthetic oil and it sounds as good as the day I bought it. My usual rides are any ware from 50 deg to 110 deg.  Howard
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:50 am

Your engine your choice but as far as ? semi synthetic ? or " blend " save your $$$$ and go either full synthetic or regular oil, there is no standard for the " blend ". There are even 2 synthetics one true, one derived from regular oil. Even regular oil today is way above in quality / additives than the older oils were. Zinc the " new " additive has been around since Penszoil with Z 7 back in the 60's.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:07 am

I try not get into engine oil discussions--in fact I generally avoid them and only posted this as a FWIW to relate my experience--here in Florida--where I have lived for 26 years now.

Nevertheless:

My grandfather (a stationary steam engineer from Paisley Scotland, in whom I had/have an unshakable trust) told me many years ago that "Oil is cheaper than engines";. Taking that to heart I am an avid (OCD) 2500 to 3000 mile change interval guy. Been doing it for 55+ years, have run vehicles well into the 200k to 300k, even 400k range, and see no reason to change that now. Note that I will not enter into any confabulation as to how silly this is. You know, the "modern oils and engines, manufacturer recommended extended intervals, yada, yada, yada" stuff, so don't waste your time.

My wife's '89 Celica (purchased new, the last new car we bought) has the record at 425k when we sold it in 2005. Her '03 Highlander has 205k and runs like new, my '09 Tacoma is the puppy at just 145k (bought it last October with 135k).

Re: "semi-synthetic" I am well aware of the lack of a standard for same but at some point you have to trust someone. Castrol is well known as a producer of engine oils and I trust them to not sell bottles of snake oil.

But all that's just peanuts in the general realm of engine oil debate; here's some real controversy for you:

The '03 Highlander has been living on Walmart's (cue the wailing and lamentations, oh-Nos, OMGs, WTFs, etc.) 10W-40 SuperTech dino juice; same as Citgo's SuperGuard conventional oil, here's the MSDS; for the last 115k miles, changed every 3000 miles or so;

But wait there's more, and it gets worse: My '09 Tacoma will be getting it's second dose of Walmart's 10W-30 Supertech synthetic next weekend. It is also  produced by Citgo. If I were running dino juice I'd use the 10W-40.

You should see the flap that caused on the Tacoma forum...
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:14 am

WalMart house brand 10-40 works fine.....for about the last 500,000 two wheel miles. In my present SilverWing.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:50 am

john grinsel wrote:
WalMart house brand 10-40 works fine.....for about the last 500,000 two wheel miles.  In my present SilverWing.

Good to know!
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:31 am

cliffyk wrote:
<>... the engine being a tad noisy so yesterday I loaded it up with Castrol's 20W-50 Actevo 4T semi-synthetic. <>The engine was quieter than it has ever been...<>

So would you attribute the quiteing simply to 20W vs 10W then, not "synthetic" vs "semi-synthetic" vs petroleum based oils?

Tim
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:44 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
cliffyk wrote:
<>... the engine being a tad noisy so yesterday I loaded it up with Castrol's 20W-50 Actevo 4T semi-synthetic. <>The engine was quieter than it has ever been...<>

So would you attribute the quiteing simply to 20W vs 10W then, not "synthetic" vs "semi-synthetic" vs petroleum based oils?

Tim

Absolutely, I have never found any noticeable difference in engine performance, noise or anything else, between synthetic, semi-synthetic and plain ol' dino juice; with new oil of the same SAE grade.

If one is the sort to run longer intervals between changes (5000 miles or more) then the synthetics might make sense especially if run to the ridiculous 10k to 12k some people do.

Mobil now claims to have a 20k/once-a-year oil. Which I believe is most likely the same as their regular M1, just "re-spec'd" by the marketing department so they can charge a premium plus price for it. One of those great things for other people to do to their engines, but I pity the fool (apologies to Mr. T) that buys one second or third hand thinking they got such deal.

When M1 was first introduced Mobil and the automotive press sycophants were touting 12k to 15k changes--that lasted until the automakers brought them back down to earth.

One other issue is service duty, with a big misconception that "only short trips" is light duty; when in reality it is possibly the worst duty to which a gasoline fueled ICE can be subjected.

One fellow on a Tacoma forum was upset because he found white foamy sludge on the oil cap of his new-to-him 2016 V6 with just 16k miles and despite "mostly just being driven to work and back". Once the requisite 20 questions from other members were placed it turned out the fellow lived in Michigan and did indeed drive it just to work--a whopping 4 miles each way, that poor engine never got even close to hot enough to burn that crap off...
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:36 pm

OK. My 2 cents...
I just changed the oil and filter on my 08 SWing at 27,679 miles. The oil was black when I changed it but then it's supposed to turn dark, in my opinion. I used AmzOil 10W40 and a Wix filter #51356. This filter was just a bit longer than the one I put on last time. It took 2 quarts plus 18 Oz to bring it up to the full line. And like I do with all my vehicles I turn the filter on until it touches then tighten it by hand about as tight as I can get it. I'm not a body builder so I've never gotten it too tight. Well, at least they haven't leaked... I also use AmzOil in all my vehicles and haven't had any problems. I have a 99 Silverado pickup with over 235,000 miles on it and it's still running great.

But that's just my 2 cents on this matter.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:44 pm

Dale N. wrote:
OK. My 2 cents...
I just changed the oil and filter on my 08 SWing at 27,679 miles. The oil was black when I changed it but then it's supposed to turn dark, in my opinion. I used AmzOil 10W40 and a Wix filter #51356. This filter was just a bit longer than the one I put on last time. It took 2 quarts plus 18 Oz to bring it up to the full line. And like I do with all my vehicles I turn the filter on until it touches then tighten it by hand about as tight as I can get it. I'm not a body builder so I've never gotten it too tight. Well, at least they haven't leaked... I also use AmzOil in all my vehicles and haven't had any problems. I have a 99 Silverado pickup with over 235,000 miles on it and it's still running great.

But that's just my 2 cents on this matter.

I had a problem with a Wix 51365 not seating properly and weeping more than just a bit...
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Thanks cliffyk. I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't leak. Hopefully it won't leak. It probably won't because my mechanical skills are so freakin' awesome that I never do nuttin' wrong... OK. Maybe once in a while. Smile
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:12 pm

Dale N. wrote:
Thanks cliffyk. I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't leak. Hopefully it won't leak. It probably won't because my mechanical skills are so freakin' awesome that I never do nuttin' wrong... OK. Maybe once in a while. Smile

You had indicated Wix 51356, the one I had used was a 51365 (I just checked my receipts)--there is a 51356 too, maybe that will be OK?
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:24 am

[/quote]You had indicated Wix 51356, the one I had used was a 51365 (I just checked my receipts)--there is a 51356 too, maybe that will be OK?
[/quote]

When I put the two open ends together the were the same size and the O rings matched up. the 536 was just about 1/2" or so longer. That was the only difference I could see between them.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:03 am

Quote :
When I put the two open ends together the were the same size and the O rings matched up. the 536 was just about 1/2" or so longer. That was the only difference I could see between them.

What I found was that the bottom plate of the filter was not recessed deeply enough relative to the gasket's sealing surface. The filter bottomed out on the filter mount before the gasket was sufficiently compressed.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:03 am

Oil Filters best to stick with OEM filters or WalMart Fram 6017A which is cheaper.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:53 am

[Portions edited]


Oil Filter best to stick with OEM or exact replacement, period.  There are various drain back features, by pass features....Honda already figured it out.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:56 am

You're forgetting not every Silver Wing owner on this forum lives in the US, shops in Walmart, or chooses to ignore the recommended or equivalent grade engine oils.
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:02 am

Love these discussions! Always differing opinions and viewpoints. The main thing to remember is to CHANGE your oil and use a decent oil filter. Honda says 7K on the SWing, I say figure that out from YOUR style of riding. If you drive short distances consistently change a lot more often. If mostly freeway/highway miles you can come close to the max. Usually I go between 5-7K on mine.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:40 pm

At one time in the not too far distant past it was common for vehicle manufacturers to recommend optimal engine oil grades based on expected seasonal/regional temperatures. Here are Mazda's recommendations for the 1st generation (1990-1993) Miata:



However as years have passed and everything has been dumbed down (the 1st gen Miatas had real o/p gauges too) the recommendations coalesced around a couple then just the one "one-size-fits-all" specification we see today. To be fair this is in part because synthetic oils can provide adequate motor protection over broader nominal conditions. But the key word here is adequate (vs. optimal).

As one strays to the extremes of those nominal conditions the extremes of "adequate" are also approached, making valid considerations of straying from the "adequate" recommendations presented in the owner's manual, if one seeks optimal protection. Synthetic motor oils are in many characteristics superior to dino juices, some characteristics even far superior, they are not however magical ambrosias from automotive heaven.

This is why every producer of such offers them in different grades, and why intelligent selection of a specific grade for your specific situation makes sense and it as Martha Stewart would say "A good thing."
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:57 pm

I was in Wallyworld this morning getting my oil change supplies, and, just so everyone knows, the aforementioned Fram 6017A filter IS a motorcycle specific filter.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Some time back (turns out it was 13 years ago) I had installed a Bosch filter on my 1990 MIata and immediately noticed that the oil pressure at the main gallery input (after the filter) was 8-10 psi lower than with a Mazda filter. I took it off and replaced it with a Purolator PureOne filter and all was back to where it should be. This prompted me to dissect the Bosch unit to get a better look at why.

This page from my Miata site shows what I found, and since I was on a roll what I found by cutting apart other brands of Miata oil filters. The Fram ToughGuard, while better than the Bosch POS, was not at top of the list by a long shot.

As I said this was 13 years ago and could be things have changed--if I get as ambitious as I was 2 heart attacks and one stoke ago perhaps I'll do it with some Silver Wing filters.

Also, just after getting the 'swing last May I did some research on alternative oil filters. The stock Honda 15410-MFJ-D01 filter has an anti-drainback valve and a bypass relief valve, the bypass opens when the differential between the filter inlet and outlet is 18 psi (max). This would occur if the filter media were sufficiently "clogged" to cause that much pressure drop across the filter.

Though getting detailed information about oil filters is sort of like hunting for hen's teeth I was able to find that the following filters meet those specs (i.e. they all have anti-drainback valves and 18 psi bypass valves):

  • Honda 15410-MFJ-D01 (doh!);
  • Purolator L14612/L14610;
  • Fram PH6607;
  • WIX 51356/51635;
  • Autolite AL6607;
  • Motorcraft FL 816;
  • SuperTech ST6607;

Note: As posted above I had fitment problems with the Wix 51635 in that the filter "bottomed out" before the gasket was properly compressed.

FWIW I have been using the Purolator L14612 which is 2.93" long, just a bit longer than the Honda 15410-MFJ-D01 filter's 2.78"; which I understand is a bit shorter than it's predecessor...


Last edited by cliffyk on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:52 pm

Changing oil regularly is just as important as the brand and weight oil each of us chooses. A product of internal Combustion in our engine is the creation of acid which bypasses our piston rings and winds up in our Crank case. As miles are accumulated this concentration of acids increases, Circulating through out our engine, Attacking everything.

Using an oil and not changing it regularly is inviting trouble, Some manufactures recommend extended change intervals, Adding oil as the level drops does not remove the acids and other harmful materials in our old oil. Happy Motoring lloyd 193. swing
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:23 pm

My maternal grandfather, a Scot stationary steam engineer from Paisley Scotland, told me over 60 years ago that "Oil is cheaper than engines." I had adhered to this wisdom since then and became a near fanatic 3000 to 3500 mile (tops) "oil changer"¹.

And as my wife and I have for 36+ years routinely driven our cars to 250k to 400k miles (actually even a bit more) I am not inclined to change that now--despite what any manufacturer of vehicles, motor oil, or filters might "recommend"...

---------------------------------------------
¹ - My name is Cliff and I change my oil much more often than others recommend. (step 1.)
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PostSubject: Re: 20W-50 Castrol MC semi-synthetic   Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:00 pm

The bike I just bought, an 09 with about 4500 miles,  had one oil change done by the PO in the entire time he owned it.   His logic was that it hadn't reached the 7K mark yet.  Needless to say, the first thing I did was to change oil.  Used synthetic 10w30 and a k&n filter.
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