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 Which sliders to order?

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Riggers
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PostSubject: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi all. I know this has been discussed before but there's so much stuff about it I can't find the wood for the trees.

I'm about to change the drive belt on my '08 Swing and might as well do the sliders at the same time.

I'm on the standard Honda set up at the moment and I'm thinking of changing to Dr Pulley sliders, but I'm not sure what weight to order.

I'd like to have the engine revving a little slower than standard when at cruising speeds, and I'm not too concerned about a little loss of acceleration.

Could I call on the combined wisdom of the forum for advice please?

Many thanks guys

Riggers.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:38 pm

Riggers wrote:
<>I'd like to have the engine revving a little slower than standard when at cruising speeds, and I'm not too concerned about a little loss of acceleration.<>

Given your objective, I'd suggest switcching to 28gm Sliders. They are the same weight as the Honda rollers but will give you smoother accelleration and lower your cruising rpm by ~500 rpms. You could also go the 30gm Sliders, if you can locate them, which will give you slightly lower cruising rpms but mid range accelleration might suffer.
Anyway, that's my 2¢.

Tim
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Riggers
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:10 pm

Many thanks Tim.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:46 am

Personally I find the plain roast beef and the corned beef sliders at Arby's quite good. Especially au jus. Try one of their warm cherry turnovers when you're there.
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Riggers
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:04 am

exavid wrote:
Personally I find the plain roast beef and the corned beef sliders at Arby's quite good. Especially au jus. Try one of their warm cherry turnovers when you're there.

Well they do sound irresistible :lol!: but a bit too far away in March!

But thanks for the recommendation.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:21 pm

I switched to the 28 gram DR sliders and they seem to work fine. I never saw the -500 drop in rpm; more like 200 actually. No noticeable difference in MPG but all in all they work fine and there is less vibration.
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Riggers
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:23 am

GHM-PM wrote:
I switched to the 28 gram DR sliders and they seem to work fine. I never saw the -500 drop in rpm; more like 200 actually.  No noticeable difference in MPG but all in all they work fine and there is less vibration.

Thanks for that Glenn. I've ordered the 28 gramme sliders from The Scooter Tuning Shop in Germany so fingers crossed.

Costing me 59 UK pounds, which I guess is around 75 US dollars. Can't believe there isn't a distributor in England.

Cheers.
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dejo
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:30 am

I recently switched from stock rollers on my 2008 Swing to 26gr sliders. I do notice a bit more rpms during low speed acceleration, but cant feel anymore pull from it via "seat of the pants".
Before the sliders my first tank of fuel netted me 47.4mpg, my second tank of fuel resulted in 48.3mpg. Once I changed to the sliders my first tank of fuel netted 51.8mpg. I should note that these are the only 3 tanks that I have ran through the scooter so far. And that they all contain about half city driving and highway. That last tank was a total of 149.5 miles with about 60 of that at 78-80 indicated with several bursts up to 110mph indicated.
I am pretty thrilled with the 26gr, but havent tried any other weights. Not feeling any performance gains but gaining better economy through the slightly lowered rpms seems they will still be well worth the costs to purchase. They also were rather easy to install myself with the videos that have been posted on youtube.
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Riggers
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:16 pm

Many thanks Dejo for your information.
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Bluerider3
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:54 pm

What is the cost for the  Dr. Pulley 28 gram sliders and who is the preferred vendor for these items?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:18 pm

Buggy Parts NW, ~$50 + shipping
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dejo
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:57 pm

mine were $54.95 + shipping from buggyparts nw
they were shipped very quickly and had a great experience with them. at this point I would recommend them to anyone interested in sliders
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:26 am


Drive line all stock, has worked for me for over 80,000 miles. Each time I replace belt, new OEM rollers and sliders (not very expensive from Honda)----haven't walked yet. Smooth operation

My opinion=don't like standard performance....buy another bike. SilverWing works well stock, taken for what it is....big, overweight Scooter. Of course stock windshield is horrible, Givi Adjustable seems to work best as replacement.
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dejo
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:03 am

why so indifferent on the screen vs other stock parts?
if stock should be good enoug, it should be good enough!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:23 am

My point is...long and distant trip.....break down, stock parts are nice.....dealer can probably locate new parts quick and you can continue on. Aftermarket?

Top of windshield flies off.....you can get home without walking/waiting for parts. In US still lots of Honda Dealers. From starting point, Chattanooga TN present SilverWing has been as far away as Alaska and Nova Scotia with no trouble, other than dead battery, with several jump starts got home with no walking/expensive delays. Battery trouble most my fault used stupid after market electric pump instead of hand pump. Battery in third year of use, replaced with OEM.

Don't ride a lot or go far, something breaks easier to take care of. 62 years of using 2 wheelers as prime transport have had a few experiences....some expensive.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:03 pm

In one respect I agree with John, and that's Honda reliability with stock parts.
Do you want to try to find a part for a racing variator or clutch while on a tour? No!
If it's working for you, don't mess with it!

However, some riders require some tuning of the drive and suspension due to weight loading and road conditions.

Changing weight of rollers or sliders +/- 2-4gr , and/or slightly stronger clutch/contra springs.
This will be all you really need to do to change the response profile of the CVT, anything else will effect reliability and parts availability, plus they are the cheapest of the tuning mods.  

Also, tuning the ergonomics to fit rider stature and weight.
Installing a different windshield if you are unhappy with the airfow around you and the buffeting, different handgrips, possibly heated, if you need such things and a Corbin or Russell saddle if you have a big arse.
If you need back support and/or ride feet forward you might want a backrest too.



When I put in my 26g sliders I made some before and after measurements.
I used a g-force app and a set distance marked with a poll.

I made about 10 runs for each measurement, and averaged them.

Before;
Peak g-force acceleration in 0-60 run was .25g, occurring in the 25-45mph range
Peak speed at set distance was 60mph
GPS speed at 4000 rpm was 50mph
GPS speed at 5000 rpm was 60mph
GPS speed at 6000 rpm was 70mph

After;
Peak g-force acceleration in 0-60 run was .36g, occurring in the 25-45mph range
Peak speed at set distance was 60mph
GPS speed at 4000 rpm was 50mph
GPS speed at 5000 rpm was 65mph
GPS speed at 6000 rpm was 75mph


My seat of the pants and in-traffic observations were that I had better performance in the type of city traffic we have where I live, with posted limits 30- 45 and prevailing speeds of 35-60.

Peak torque at freeway merge speeds here are compromised as in peak torque was achived on the ramp, and not in the traffic flow, which is rather high around here arount 85-90 mph! However, the effect was not dramatic and I did not do measurments.

MPG remained at 50+/-3, depending on right wrist and speed.

Remember, any engineering decision is a compromise, if it were not we'd call it magic!
Honda designed the SW to be a great scoot for an average rider, unfortunately a lot of us are not "average".

Every change you make will effect at least one other system or parameter, sometimes negatively, and sometimes catastrophically so.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:22 am

I have always been amused at people that buy a given car/bike and then go after a Holy Grail of MORE power. Perhaps you bought the wrong vehicle... LOL I am on a Honda Trail 90 forum and that is the usual request, "how do I get more power out of it"? Well, duh, you bought a 7 HP trail bike and now you want it to run like a Ninja?

Myself, I am happy with the stock performance on the SWing. If I want to go fast will jump on my 120+ HP Goldwing! On the SWing I installed NGK iridium plugs at normal replacement time, changed the air filter for a K&N unit. Both of these changes made little difference EXCEPT in how often they need to be changed. I installed DR sliders but not sure I would do again. The stock Honda rollers did fine and are only about 20 bucks to replace, so why did I spend 60 bucks for DR? Time will tell.

That said my Silver Wing has always gotten great fuel mileage. 55-60 MPG is not unusual for me on a trip and several times have gotten 62 MPG.

That is my two cents worth now excuse me while I go install a Goldwing motor in my scooter so I can get MORE power!!! :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:02 am

K&N filters let in 18 times more dirt than OEM. Do the research.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:36 am

Flyingpanman wrote:
K&N filters let in 18 times more dirt than OEM. Do the research.

The cool kids usually have a 'K&N filter and drilled air box' so that means even more dirt coming in then. Don't forget the aftermarket performance silencer or 'can' as I believe they're called in popular parlance. It absolutely has to have a large logo prominently displayed on it, it's the rules.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:39 am

Agree with above....do not like SilverWing performance? try another bike/scooter....I have tried over 75 new ones over the years

I find SilverWing as old design, fine, reliable...maybe nice handling for scooter ( top boxes don't help any) can be somewhat tire fussy------stock air filter changed at around 35,000 miles (went thru several dust storms, including real dirt storm in TX, at near 40,000 miles still original spark plugs, maybe change at 50,000 miles. Belt changes at 15 or 16 thousand miles biggest expense.
Wal Mart 10-40 oil works well.
Worst feature of SilverWing----air/wind management even with Givi adjustable windshield----long distance riding can be not comfortable-----my base line for comparing--BMW 500 with Heinrich upper and knee shields, HD bigtwin with old winter windshield and tin legshields---scooter world, VespaPX200E with, windshield made by National Cycle in 70's, I think-----All were comfortable, look over, worked in nasty weather. Above bikes I owned, rode a lot, enjoyed.Didn't really care how they looked, rather how they went down the road.

Current 2013 SilverWing remains stock except Givi Windshield, Givi Rack/46L box, NEP throttle lock....and works fine. At 50,000 miles will sell/trade, I hope. No desire to change rollers/sliders at belt change time---stock works fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:03 pm

I can't find fault with anyone who want's to improve the horsepower on their bike no matter whether it's a Whizzer or Hayabusa. I'll plead guilty to that urge in the past. It's fun to have a 'sleeper'. If I had a means to I'd eliminate the timing delay that Honda put in the Silverwing (it's also in my GT) that doesn't let you have full power until the scooter gets moving. When I slap the throttle open I want it ALL and I want it NOW. No practical value to it at all but I like lifting a front tire or a bit of rear wheel spin just for the heck of it. No matter what brand, size or kind of bike it is. In my day whenever two guys got together they'd have to see whose car or bike was the fastest off the line. I guess some of us haven't grown up. Maybe the others have lost the 'need for speed'. But don't denigrate those of us who haven't.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:34 pm

YouTube has loads of funny clips showing riders that want it ALL and want it NOW. They inevitably end up being dumped on their arses in a shower of sparks and grinding metal, dream on.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:41 pm

Flyingpanman wrote:
K&N filters let in 18 times more dirt than OEM. Do the research.

Haha, did already. Most dirt racers use K&N.... Guess that tells me all I want to know!!!

Do what you want!
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:48 am

GHM-PM wrote:


Most dirt racers use K&N....  Guess that tells me all I want to know!!!


And how often do they rebuild their engines?
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:22 am

exavid wrote:
I can't find fault with anyone who want's to improve the horsepower on their bike no matter whether it's a Whizzer or Hayabusa. I'll plead guilty to that urge in the past.  It's fun to have a 'sleeper'. If I had a means to I'd eliminate the timing delay that Honda put in the Silverwing (it's also in my GT) that doesn't let you have full power until the scooter gets moving. When I slap the throttle open I want it ALL and I want it NOW. No practical value to it at all but I like lifting a front tire or a bit of rear wheel spin just for the heck of it. No matter what brand, size or kind of bike it is. In my day whenever two guys got together they'd have to see whose car or bike was the fastest off the line. I guess some of us haven't grown up. Maybe the others have lost the 'need for speed'. But don't denigrate those of us who haven't.

Man, You got that right! More POWER to you!


Last edited by E.D. on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:24 am

Flyingpanman wrote:
GHM-PM wrote:


Most dirt racers use K&N....  Guess that tells me all I want to know!!!


And how often do they rebuild their engines?

Man, You got that right! If you want and engine to last, it needs really clean air!
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:08 am

Haha, nobody said YOU have to use a K&N! But as for me I have used them since the 1970's in cars, trucks and bikes with NO problems. And if you research you will discover that K&N filters will NOT void your warranty.

So use what you choose and lets get back on topic!
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:25 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
Haha, nobody said YOU have to use a K&N!  But as for me I have used them since the 1970's in cars, trucks and bikes with NO problems. And if you research you will discover that K&N filters will NOT void your warranty.

So use what you choose and lets get back on topic!

Hear hear! Although my new sliders have arrived now from Germany so advice doesn't matter so much now Laughing

When they're fitted I'll post up a report.

Thanks again for all the advice and comments guys (especially the ones on topic!). Much appreciated.

Riggers.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:41 am

The nice thing about sliders is that if you do have problems while on tour you can stop at any honda dealer/service shop and get stock rollers to put in. If you modify the variator extensively then this could become an issue.

I've yet to have a scooter that I haven't modified and will continue to do so since there's no bike engineered exactly for me. For now I'm running stock rollers in my variator but that is mostly because I'm lazy and wanted to feel what stock felt like in the silverwing. I ran a JCosta for 16000 miles, then 26gm sliders for another 10k miles but recently put stock back in when I did my last belt service because I had them sitting on the shelf and couldn't remember what stock felt like. Next time I crack the case open I'll try sliders again, probably 28gm to get better mpg. I'm in the process of dialing in my helix at the moment, the silverwing is on tour duty only at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:42 pm

Good luck in finding a Honda dealer that has much in the way of Silverwing parts on hand. pale
Big dealership here has nada for SW. Not much of anything for a Goldwing either for that matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:08 pm

FWIW I ran 28gm Dr Pulley sliders for well over 50,000 miles on my '03 S'Wing and they had no signs of wear --either measurable or visual. I removed them from that scoot when it was totalled and have them on the shelf. Currently I'm testing Dr Pulley's new performance Variator which uses different sliders.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:22 pm

Well the job is done! With the help of the resources on this site everything went according to plan with no hidden nasties.

At only 13,000 miles from new there was only the very slightest hint of a flat spot on the old rollers.

Vacuumed all the dust and muck away and cleaned up all the components, and had a look a the clutch shoes whilst everything was in pieces, and all looked fine.

Made a variator holding tool out of a single piece of wood and a couple of bolts and it worked fine.

Dr Pulley 28g sliders have been fitted and a new OEM drive belt. Total cost approx £140 (UK pounds).

I've only ridden the scoot a few miles but it definitely seems smoother on the uptake but I've not been able to properly check out any drop in RPM.

Once again thanks to all who offered knowledge and advice. Cheers guys.

Riggers.
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:05 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
FWIW I ran 28gm Dr Pulley sliders for well over 50,000 miles on my '03 S'Wing and they had no signs of wear --either measurable or visual. I removed them from that scoot when it was totalled and have them on the shelf. Currently I'm testing Dr Pulley's new performance Variator which uses different sliders.

Tim
Tim,
Can you do a review on the performance variator from Dr Pulley? What was the reason for the change? What do you like/dislike about the new variator? Would you recommend it for others?
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PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:47 am

Easyrider wrote:
<>Can you do a review on the performance variator from Dr Pulley? What was the reason for the change? What do you like/dislike about the new variator? Would you recommend it for others?

I haven't had the variator in my hands for very long and the weather here has not been conducive for riding. I haven't had the opportunity to sort out the sliders and put down some miles and so I can't give an honest, objective appraisal of it yet.

And unlike Sidewinder (post above) I'm a technological luddite. Now if I only had a rolling dyno...

In a nut shell though, pretty damn impressive mid range accelleration.

Tim
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