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 went new scooter shopping

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 12:20

By mid-summer I plan to purchase new bike/scooter. I like to trade at 50,000 miles. My scooter 2013 leftover SilverWing, my 2nd.

So went to look at Kymco dealers----2 in my area have stopped Kymco scooters. Next dealer either 100 miles to north or south=too far for me. The dealer is more important than than bike.

Do not want to buy 3rd SilverWing. Main drawback too heavy and not great handling loaded . They do not break often. I buy only new.

So list at present very limited----maybe leftover Honda Forza--dealer in my neighborhood. Last 2 choices, Vespa (had 4 in past) but dealer 100 miles away. Scooter expensive, can be made buffet free with right windshield, aplus. Last 2 new Vespas cost me each $400. When Sears got out of scooter business--1969 got a 125 in the crate...$400 Mid 1980's Army PX Pirmasens Germany--PX got out of scooters, as GI's had difficult time getting operating license---$400 US model PX 150 with auto oiling---really enjoyed that scooter, my choice for vacations in Switzerland mountains. My garage had other bikes, but liked to use Vespa AND could buy Burgman 650, but the $12,000 to get in expensive and maybe too heavy for old fart--78 this year. Burgman 400 is possibility, already had 2 new---Suzuki USA is not bringing them in 2017. I like them,non-linked brakes.

Hips no longer comfortable mounting motorcycle.

I could ride my present SilverWing until it drops and repairs cost more than worth of bike.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 14:44

If you are asking for opinions or just thinking out loud, it seems some may give pretty much the same  kind of response we would tell noobs... It  really depends on what kind of riding you plan to do as to what kind of bike you might think about getting.

If you don't plan on taking as many long cross country jaunts, then something a bit smaller than the Silverwing would be where to start looking. If you are only going to consider the dealerships you are willing to venture out to, then you are limited by what they may happen to have available.

Other things you might consider are whether you will do your own wrench work or are you willing to trust others to do it for you? Is a trike or scooter sidecar rig something you might consider? (new scooter and hack might be overly expensive though and for practicality would call for at least a Silverwing size bike) A Burgman 400 sounds good, But would you have it in mind to put 50,000 miles on it? And how long might you expect that to take if that is what you might think of doing? (considering also where you are now and where you will be 5 or 6 years from now physically speaking)
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 15:19

I'm quite surprised that Mr Grinsel who revels in his high mileage status says 100 miles is too far to travel to a dealer. Living in Cumbria before I retired and moved to York I can think of half a dozen dealerships outside Cumbria where I bought motorcycles or maxi scooters from that were all between 130-180 miles from my home. A couple of the dealerships were up in Scotland, and I also made return trips to most of these dealerships for servicing and repair work.

(It was pretty normal having to travel out of Cumbria back then, thankfully living in York I no longer have to and can now choose scooters from Suzuki, Kymco, Piaggio, Yamaha, Vespa, BMW, and SYM locally, and three Honda dealerships, a Kawasaki, and even Quadro are only about a hours ride away.)
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 15:37

I do long trips---30-40,000 miles some year. In my 62nd year of riding...would never think of trike conversion! I have purchased over 75 new motorcycles/scooters. Like small displacement stuff--175,000 miles with 4 helix---250cc just fine.

Rode sidecar outfits for 40 years----including new HD tin sidecar outfit, there are few bikes out there are designed for the strain of sidecar use. SilverWing is not!

Never do I ride in groups...as too dangerous. And nobody wants or would go with me.

Observation: scooter market in US is dead, period.

Burgman 400...ok for me, but already have had 2 new ones---not brought into US for 2017. I would be buying leftover at probably not big discounted price. Rubber band drive Burgman 400 is not as reliable as SilverWing, based on my ownership experience.

Not planning on croaking, in good shape, considering life I lived/worked. Nothing slows me down on long trips, other than I get bored/tired. I ride with professional quality clothes/boots/gloves....not the white tennis shoes that the cup holder old farts usually do.

Different than most who buy scooters-----I use the scooter for everything, out in rain this AM---I don't have to, just do.

Advantage of new scooter, if you ride a lot, the warranty----even Honda has warranty claims. I add no electronic junk. Maps work fine.

My comment: Not a lot out there in US, if you want to buy new----of course with scooter market dead, you will take a big hit at trade time. Also I have been at this a long time, over 1.5 million 2 wheel miles--North America/Asia/Europe/Mexico, central America.

I do own wrench/tire work . Will not buy another 2 wheeler with no centerstand---TU 250 Suzuki taught me that---Cruisers are of no interest to me.

Biggest bitch---now nearly 30 years with Maxi scooters----the wind buffeting, regardless of windshield, as your nose it too far from tip of shield. Only Vespa can be made buffet free, nose close to tip of shield, looking over. Just design of bike.
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 15:44

Sounds like a "don't want to do" rather than "can't do" 100 miles. Can only speak for myself, but I sure wouldn't want to buy anything with the closest dealer that far away.

As least with US dealers I've dealt with, I sometimes (or often, depending on the dealer) have to return to get repairs re-done. 200-mile round trip to get something done, then have another 200-mile round trip to get it done right? That would get old really fast. I'll take the bus, thanks. Wink
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dekare
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 19:36

john grinsel wrote:
By  mid-summer I plan to purchase new bike/scooter.  I like to trade at 50,000 miles.  My scooter 2013 leftover SilverWing, my 2nd.

So went to look at Kymco dealers----2 in my area have stopped Kymco scooters.  Next dealer either 100 miles to north or south=too far for me.  The dealer is more important than than bike.

Do not want to buy 3rd SilverWing.  Main drawback too heavy and not great handling loaded .  They do not break often. I buy only new.

So list at present very limited----maybe leftover Honda Forza--dealer in my neighborhood.  Last 2 choices, Vespa (had 4 in past) but dealer 100 miles away.  Scooter expensive, can be made buffet free with right windshield, aplus.  Last 2 new Vespas cost me each $400.   When Sears got out of scooter business--1969 got a 125 in the crate...$400  Mid 1980's Army PX Pirmasens Germany--PX got out of scooters, as GI's had difficult time getting operating license---$400 US model PX 150 with auto oiling---really enjoyed that scooter, my choice for vacations in Switzerland mountains.  My garage had other bikes, but liked to use Vespa  AND could buy Burgman 650, but the $12,000 to get in expensive and maybe too heavy for old fart--78 this year.  Burgman 400 is possibility, already had 2 new---Suzuki USA is not bringing them in 2017.  I like them,non-linked brakes.


John,
What are your thoughts about the  BMW C 650 GT Maxi-Scooter?
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 21:25

I have a hard time fathoming the thought of a dealership being more important than the bike. That just seems a bit incongruous, especially coming from a guy like John Grinsel.

So, the scooter market is dead, you'll buy nothing but new, motorcycles are a non-starter, some dealerships are too far away, had enough of the Burgman 400 and the "too big" Silverwing, the 650 Burgman will likely be too big as well, apparently can't get a Kymco and the only thing is a left over Honda Forza.

I don't know much about the Forza except that I thought that it felt cramped when sitting on one at a show when it first came to the US market. John, see if you can get a test ride on the Forza and find if it could be what you want from a bike. If not, and you maintain your self imposed limitations then you may just have to go with what you can get and still may not be satisfied due to a lack of "refreshing" alternatives. At least you know the Hondas have a pretty good reliability history.

Neutral Don't know what else to say.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 22:06

I have had both a Honda Forza 300 and a Burgman 400. In my opinion they are both under powered. If you had a Silverwing, you would know all about it when you step back onto one of these. I would not consider them for long distance touring.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 22:22

As daily rider, using scooter/bike for all my transportation/ travel needs. Dealer is very important, when you need help to keep going. I have test ridden Forza---works and Givi adjustable windshield is available as well as Givi Monokey rack for top box. The only accessories I want/need other than throttle stop.

I/we wife and I have Hyundai Genesis--that I drive seldom, she drives too much--dealer for it is nearby, which is very handy----nearing 65,000 miles, only expense outside of oil/filters is tires, no troubles otherwise---for me it is expensive big tank, not fun to drive, but V-6 and can produce amazing MPG on highway, 35-36 with light foot, and doesn't seem to break, give trouble.

On bikes, over 75 new ones, I have standards that I need and experience tells me what I need and enjoy. 2 wheeler for example with out centerstand, unsat. period.


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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 07 Mar 2017, 22:29






Two things: 250cc or a little more==fine performance, great for long tours and relaxing.

BMW scooter---Kymco heart, looks like expensive service requirements---been BMW owner since 1958, early fine motorcycles, later some real expensive junk, my last new one K-75. AND in US, where are the dealers? Have test ridden the scooter-- nice wind management.






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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Wed 08 Mar 2017, 07:37

John, have you considered a Honda CTX 700?  Available with the dual-clutch transmission and short stature for easy step-over.  I have a short friend that has one and he is racking up the miles on it.  Only drawback to my thinking is the chain (oh yuck).  Good bike though. I believe JeffR has one of these.

By the way I moved this post out of Introductions...
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:52

No CTX for me---chain, CenterStand?---feet forward on bike not for me. Going to Atlanta one of these days to look at Vespa GTS 300---expensive and do they have the no trouble staying together like Hondas do?.. Probably end up with Honda Forza mid summer---Givi has adjustable windshield and Monokey rack for them. Although no 2017 model in US, Honda has plenty of leftover ABS model.
Bike is lighter and has enough performance for my riding type....dealer checked for me this AM.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Thu 09 Mar 2017, 15:44

In my opinion the best scooter in the " under 200kg " category is the Piaggio Beverly 350.  Significantly more power than the Vespa 300 GTS, more storage, bigger wheels, ABS and traction control and fully made in Italy. ( unlike the Vespa )

And much cheaper as well!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Thu 09 Mar 2017, 16:52

In US VespaPiaggio= no dealers---bit overpriced. Had 4 Vespa 2 strokes in the past, 2 strokes not available here but still in UK. They were good with me, cheap, nice windshields available and no drive belt. Current rubber band drive Vespas have 8,000 mil change interval=sucks.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:21

I test rode a Piaggio BV350, and also the Vespa GTS 300. Both were Nice. The only thing I could think of was Parts availability, and Mean time between break downs.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:23

I was told by my dealer that the Forza 300 was NOT going to be available for 2017. But there's plenty of Old, New stock available.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sun 12 Mar 2017, 13:15

Agree on Forza---my dealer says they sometimes skip a year when overstocked/not selling. I expect Forza will be back, US model 2018 Euro 4 compliant. Still shopping.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 14 Mar 2017, 02:16

I guess the admins locked the thread about a problem thread. 

Anyway​ John,
I like how you think about getting a new bike. I actually like my 2013 Swing. Maybe​ it is because I made so many changes to make it mine. It is exactly how I want it. I may even get another one and store it in Idaho at my daughter's home. Just have fun shopping for your next bike!
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Tue 14 Mar 2017, 15:52

Easyrider wrote:
I may even get another one and store it in Idaho at my daughter's home.



Easyrider,

That S'wing might rack up a lot of miles "sitting" in Idaho. Smile small moped small moped
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Wed 15 Mar 2017, 02:15

Hi Yo wrote:
Easyrider wrote:
I may even get another one and store it in Idaho at my daughter's home.



   Easyrider,

 That S'wing might rack up a lot of miles "sitting" in Idaho.   Smile     small moped    small moped
I guess we will be called SNOW BIRDS. When it snows, we fly back to Honolulu and enjoy the sun. LOL. I always wanted to do a bike road trip. The farest I have ridden is from Las Cruces NM to Gunnison Colorado on a Suzuki T500, just under 700 miles one way.
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Greysilver
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Wed 15 Mar 2017, 19:57

Does Yamaha still import the 530 T MAX? Power shouldn't be a problem. Burgman 650 seems like a slug. I rode one once, felt big.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Thu 16 Mar 2017, 11:51

I have a 2005' Suzuki Burgman 650, TOO heavy!! and Too Wide, Just way to big!!  also have two Silverwings, 2005', and 2006'. I like the Silverwings Much better.
I test rode a burgman 400, and was disappointed in its performance. I rode a reflex 250 2005' was disappointed in its performance. I was thinking of getting a lighter bike also, but not happy with what is available.
The Kymco 250 Downtown, has more power than the Forza 25hp, vs 29hp for the downtown, but more power means less MPG usually.
I look at the weight of each bike vs power, like most do when looking for a new bike.
Later model Burgman 400 at 489-Lbs most sites claim it as Dry weight some as wet weight so hard to know which is correct, But if we use 489-Lbs as wet weight for later model. then Silverwing at 540-lbs is only about 50-Lbs difference. But the torque rating on them both, is considerably different.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Thu 16 Mar 2017, 16:43

Both SilverWing 600 and Burgman 400 are fine scooters. Have had 2 new of each. SilverWing naturally performs better, more power----check difference in engine displacements. Honda might be more reliable and has more dealers. Both probably overweight for what they are. Neither available as current model year in US market.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 02:30

count your blessings, John, that you are scooter hunting in the US and not in Australia. Everything but the Burgman 650, the T-max and the BMW maxi scooters have been discontinued. You'll be lucky to find one of these at the dealers in a capital city. Even worse with the mid range scooters: Piaggio no sooner put one on the market than they withdraw it again. I envy you guys for being able to buy the runout model Silverwing for a good price. I can't even find a good second hand one.
Went to the Brisbane Suzuki dealer and they had a Burgman 200 in stock; who the hell would buy something like that? If you want a 200cc scooter, you surely wouldn't buy a Burgman. No wonder they can't sell anything, if they do not hold any stock of the bigger models.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 07:05

gremlin wrote:
Went to the Brisbane Suzuki dealer and they had a Burgman 200 in stock; who the hell would buy something like that? If you want a 200cc scooter, you surely wouldn't buy a Burgman.

What would you buy if wanted a 200cc scooter then? Because there really isn't a lot of choice. Of the top of my head there's the Indian made LML trad styled scooter, the Gilera Runner, SYM Symphony ST, and the Peugeot Citystar. Nothing from Honda, Yamaha, Kymco.

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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 07:23

Since I would never consider a 200cc - 250cc scooter for touring, I would look for one in the Italian step through style like a Vespa, an Aprilia Scarabeo or Kymco Like. Perfectly suited for commuting, light shopping and ride to the local Cafes.
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 07:50

gremlin wrote:
Since I would never consider a 200cc - 250cc scooter for touring, I would look for one in the Italian step through style like a Vespa, an Aprilia Scarabeo or Kymco Like.  Perfectly suited for commuting, light shopping and ride to the local Cafes.  

So would you consider 300cc as the minimum for a touring scooter then?

Tim
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 09:37

250cc fine for touring scooter-----did 175,000 miles on four 250 Helix...both in Asia and US, really enjoyed my 150cc Vespa in Europe in the 80's, had Reflex,too. Speed ok, carrying capacity ok.

SilverWing really very heavy as you age. 250 in US, at least keeps you from being run down.
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 13:26

Smile
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Fri 17 Mar 2017, 16:09

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:


So would you consider 300cc as the minimum for a touring scooter then?

Tim

Yes, I think a 300cc is the absolute minimum for touring, but personally I bought a 500cc Aprilia Scarabeo. A scooter with less than 300cc just does not perform well enough on the highway, where all the cars and trucks around you go faster than 100km/h. I like to have a bit of power up my sleeve in case I have to take an evasive action. The Scarabeo was the only scooter weighing less than 180kg with this size engine, which I could find. It also has 16/15" wheels against the 200 Burgmans 13/12", which is too small for our potholes.
Decades ago I did a lot of touring in Europe on a 150cc Vespa, but 45 years ago the traffic was very different from what it is now!
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 04:59

Yeah, just get the Burg 400, it's light enough, low enough and reliable enough with that rubber band transmission. It's got good carrying capacity too, as well as excellent headlights. Put you a top box with a rack on top of it and your ready for any road trip! Its got tires and wheels as big as a Silver Wing!
Cheers! Smile
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 07:44

Burgman light? Had 2 new ones....they are really overweight. Add top box with rack on top and load and you have real foul handling rig. Minus heavy load up high they handle well with right tires.Rode my second one as far as Alaska. No 2017 model in US.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 13:10

I've tried the Silverwing, Burgman 650 and my current BMW C650GT. Of the three I like the reliability of the Silverwing and the performance of the GT. Either one would be fine with me. Living here in Southern Oregon I like having plenty of power for riding on the slab in this mountainous terrain. Scooter has to be able to climb the grades at 70mph in northern CA to avoid being run over. The main thing that decided me to go with the BMW is that we do have a very good dealer here and he fact that the Honda shop in this location is dismal. Not to mention that Honda no longer makes the Silverwing while BMW is continuing to make their two scooters and improving on them as well.
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 13:21

exavid wrote:
Not to mention that Honda no longer makes the Silverwing                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Yes it does, the original FSC/FJS versions may have been discontinued, but the facelifted Silver Wing SW-T 600 ABS and 400 ABS versions have been on sale in Europe and elsewhere since 2009-2010.

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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 13:27

I stand corrected, what I meant is that new Silverwings are no longer imported to the US.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 13:41

There's no SW-T Silver Wing models in the Honda UK scooter line up either.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 15:53

Indeed, well Honda left me not the other way 'round.
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PostSubject: Re: went new scooter shopping   Sat 18 Mar 2017, 18:50

It's a crying shame that honda seem to have abandonded to maxi arena :-(
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