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 tires again IRC wear patterns

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: tires again IRC wear patterns   Thu 15 Dec 2016, 17:29

Put a matched set of IRC tires on 5000 miles ago---these are the Honda specified tires for 2013 SilverWing.

Tires performing well

Wear pattern, still round in rear---Bridgestone Hoop would have worn square at these miles. I like round on edge 2 wheel tires as I go around corners.

At this point I expect 8,000 miles of use from rear. Front should last 15-20,000 miles at least. Rear replacement will be Michelin Power Pure SC, as in the past I got 10,000 miles from them on both SilverWing or Burgman 400....rear.

Tires are always problem if you need them on trip.....as dealers do not stock them. I try to start out with fresh tires. And to think scooters used to come with spare wheels/tires And another problem Scooter Touring...carrying junk---Vespa has had front rack as accessory for years. Heinkel Tourist came with one standard----None of the modern plastic scooters do.
Progress??

Balance medium for me is "Ride On" works well and may even seal small leaks in center of tread. I like riding on balanced wheels and tires, still do own tire work----beats going to the gym.

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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Fri 16 Dec 2016, 00:16

john grinsel wrote:
Put a matched set of IRC tires on 5000 miles ago---these are the Honda specified tires for 2013 SilverWing.

Tires performing well

Wear pattern, still round in rear---Bridgestone Hoop would have worn square at these miles.  I like round on edge 2 wheel tires as I go around corners.

At this point I expect 8,000 miles of use from rear.  Front should last 15-20,000 miles at least.   Rear replacement will be Michelin Power Pure SC, as in the past I got 10,000 miles from them on both SilverWing or Burgman 400....rear.

Tires are always problem if you need them on trip.....as dealers do not stock them. I try to start out with fresh tires.  And to think scooters used to come with spare wheels/tires   And another problem Scooter Touring...carrying junk---Vespa has had front rack as accessory for years.   Heinkel Tourist came with one standard----None of the modern plastic scooters do.
Progress??

Balance medium for me is "Ride On" works well and may even seal small leaks in center of tread.  I like riding on balanced wheels and tires, still do own tire work----beats going to the gym.



John,
I have the original IRC tires on my 2013 Swing with 8k+ miles. The rear is still round and I should get at least 10k miles on them.
If changing your tires is like going to the gym, how often do you charge your tires? Three times a week? Just joking! LOL. Ride safe.

On another note. I envy you for the trips you take. I always wanted to do a tour for about a week. Where I live, if I head out in the morning, by evening I'd be back home never traveling on the same road. I live on an island. I would prefer doing it with a companion rather than alone.  Isn't it lonesome riding, eat, and camping alone. I know about Donald, but that is not the same as a two way conversation.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Fri 16 Dec 2016, 21:22

Island---I have lived on island, Okinawa---2 miles wide in spots to 67-69 miles long....still plenty of riding, but gets old soon. Mainland Japan has many islands served by ferries, which are not very expensive with bike/scooter.

I don't mind going alone, 61 years of doing this, never want to ride in group, riding along I can pick gas stops/eat stops and morning departure, etc.

Having lived outside of US over 40 years, I now have re-seen many places. Would love to be back in Japan or Europe.

And I have been lucky in jobs with time off---first 12 years in Air Force had 3 day break after 9 days of work---30 days vacation a year-----Later as civil servant had 5 weeks a year off, and used my bike as transport for lots of official travel, one job 26 weeks a year on road...Put 56,000 miles in a year on my BMW R80RT.....and got paid for it.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 00:18

John,
I did a lot of traveling for my ex-company. Worked from 8am to 9pm when on a business trip. Travelled alone, ate alone, worked with a lot of associates of our business partners. They would work along with you then leave to their private lives. I always invited them for a home dinner when they came to work on site. One of the loneliest times is when you have decide where to eat alone at 9pm. I like to share a meal with someone. I also don't like to ride in groups of more than three bikes. Even just a pillion (person) traveling with you would make the trip twice enjoyable. But all this is just me. My wife will only do road trips in a cage. Anyway, ride safe and enjoy your tours.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 10:33

I'd say travelling alone doesn't appeal to the vast majority of riders, it's plain to see everytime I check in at a ferry terminal. There's lot's of two's and three's, and solo riders like me very few. That isn't a concern for me because when I started touring, my biking mates never got past the talking and making excuses stage and I went away on my first Euro tour alone. One of them is still 'gonna' go touring in France' over 30 years later.

So I started off doing it solo and it works for me. I have travelled with other riders a few times and it's a pain in the arse. Cliques form within a couple of days, there's bill/check dodging, arguments over who ate what, who's grabbed the best hotel rooms, who's never ready at departure time, etc. Throw a few wives into the mix and it's even worse with their constant bitching and trying to be queen bee.

At least travelling alone you're not stuck in a room with a terminal snorer who you'd gladly suffocate with a pillow after the first couple of sleepless nights, you know that any turd left floating in the toilet bowl is your own to contend with, and the only farting you have to put up with is your own too.

So I'm eating breakfast and dinner alone, I enjoy a good breakfast buffet especially in Germany, with others there's always one or two tight gits that spend the time sneakily making up freebie lunches from the bread rolls, ham, and cheese. They're the same ones that will sit at your table at lunchtimes, order next to nothing because they're 'not hungry', then wolf down any leftovers as it would be 'a shame to waste it'.

In the evening I'd rather eat earlier than later, and if I've eaten a decent lunch which is my preference in countries like Germany, something simple is fine. I never eat a doner kebab here in the UK because they're basically fodder for hungry drunks, but in Germany they're very good. I'll always eat a currywurst too, I used to have a bit of a tradition of having one on my first stop inside Germany, and it was the old West Germany when I started doing that.

I'll happily eat dinner later if Mrs M is with me as it's her holiday as much as it is mine. Although she did struggle in France a few years when we were in the Perigord region where every menu featured flash fried goose liver, goose gizzards, and similar stuff.


It's also true that a lot of bikers wouldn't go touring at all unless they were part of a group, or had someone to wet nurse them, hence the popularity of expensive organised motorcycle tours.


Oh pardon me, am I being critical again! Smile
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 10:50

applause applause applause

Well said, Meldrew.



To rely on others is to see disappointment.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 13:13

Meldrew wrote:


Oh pardon me, am I being critical again! Smile



Not "again"; just as usual. You grumpy old git, and that's why we love you. Laughing
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 15:05

Meldrew,
You need to find true friends to tour with. If I could tour, I would keep it to two or three bikes. Choose friends that you socialize with frequently. You should be able to pick from your friends which ones will be compatible with your manners, likes, and dislikes. Of course I am an amateur at this, but that is how I would pick touring buddies. Then again, maybe none would meet your likes. I don't know anyone here that would ride as a group. There are no groups here except for HD groups. There are too many bikes and have not seen anything else but HD bikes in their groups.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sat 17 Dec 2016, 16:57

I was already an experienced Euro tourer when I lost interest in motorcycles and got into maxi scooters. When I got my Helix I lost touch with almost all of the network of biking friends I'd made though rallying, and as solo riding is my default setting anyway it didn't really matter.

It still doesn't, the only thing that has changed is touring on two wheels is no longer the big deal it once was. I just choose a destination, book ferries and hotels online or better still let Mrs M do it, and and then more or less forget about it up until a few days to departure.

There's no more hours spent poring over maps and books or making route cards, my iPad and sat nav are now essential tools. Even taking a camera along is now redundant and I was never much into taking photos anyway. Nowadays I use my iPhone or iPad for photos, upload them to Facebook for Mrs M, family, and friends, and keep in touch with Mrs M through FaceTime. Good free hotel wi-fi is more or less essential now.

As I said earlier the solo touring thing works for me, it doesn't mean I'm lonely, sad, or a 'Billy No Mates'. This seems to be hard to understand by riders who need others around them to venture out of their comfort zone. It's beyond their comprehension you have a different mindset and might just enjoy riding alone and the pleasure of your own company.



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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Sun 18 Dec 2016, 18:41

This seems to be hard to understand by riders who need others around them to venture out of their comfort zone. wrote:
Meldrew,
It has nothing to do with needing others around me to venture out of my comfort zone. I just like to share the moments with someone close to me. When something excites me, I like to share it immediately and not have to FB someone. Just not the same! Understand me, I don't like a big bunch of guys to ride with. At most three. I would love it if my wife would ride pillion then just she and I would tour.

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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Mon 19 Dec 2016, 00:44

I'm not on about you specifically mate, my opinion is based on my experience as a Brit that likes the independence of solo touring. It's a lot different getting off a ferry in a non European country like France, Belgium, or Holland to start your tour than say going out of your own state. I've been on a few things where guys have tagged along who're completely clueless about the country they're in and expect everyone else to be their guide, translator, and general dogsbody.


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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Mon 19 Dec 2016, 01:16

Meldrew,
Thanks! I see what you mean a out others tagging along and offer nothing in the planning and execution of touring. Just need to find the few that always step up to the plate. Ride safe.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Mon 19 Dec 2016, 19:27

My 2013 came with OEM IRC tires. I put 5500 miles on them this season.
Front is so noisy in turns, going straight is OK. Rear is wearing in center. Chicken strips very little on rear..... Tires have good grip but noise from front is not good. I ride it!!!

I will never buy these again. I live in PA. USA. Tar and chip capital of world. Roads are covered in oil-tar then covered in fine stones to seal-resurface roads. Its very coarse and eats tires. I could live with them except for the front noise.

When front tire is cold 45-50F scooter shakes for a half mile then it goes away. Pressures are good, not a balance problem or it wouldn't go away.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 13:28

#1 aren't you wearing ear plugs?

#2 Any tire is stiff when cold

#3 Suggest trying Ride On for balance...that last life of tire.

#4 Ride more
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 19:32

[quote="john grinsel"]Island---I have lived on island, Okinawa---2 miles wide in spots to 67-69 miles long....still plenty of riding, but gets old soon.  

We've got something in common John. As a young lad I lived on Kadena, Okinawa (1953-1955). A lot different then than now. Not many vehicles then other than US military and local cabs. No big hotels then either.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 19:55

I like to ride solo or with a couple of friends. On my longest trip, about 6000 miles from Medford to North Carolina and back with side trips along the way I was glad to have two good friends riding along. I've enjoyed some fairly lengthy road trips with my brother as well. I've tried some short day trips with several riders but that gets too complicated, make for lengthy stops, and different skill levels makes for less pleasure in the mountains. When I do ride with a couple of other riders we are pretty well matched in riding experience which is more fun in the hills. On the flat roads and freeways it's easier to deal with larger groups. But even then the stops are too long and it seems to take forever for a bunch of people to make a lunch or fuel stop.
I've never run into the types Meldrew mentioned, those that try to feed themselves on rolls and such at restaurants instead of buying food. Hard to believe anyone would be that cheap.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 20:36

I do wear ear plugs. This is listing to XM radio at the same time. Helmet speakers.

Bias ply tire is more of the cold tire problem. Very little else to choose from in the proper size.

Not a balance problem or it would continue after tire is warmed up.

Ride ON for balance. Not really a fan of that type of thing. Proper balance is with weights. Static.
Something rolling around inside?????

Ride as much as possible. Weekend thing for me.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 22:51

The tires recommended for SilverWing---last SilverWings IRC---all have been bias ply and going away from Honda's recommendation and testing there are a fair number of makes available in the proper size. Bike designed for bias ply tires


My experience (over 1.5 million 2 wheel miles) riding with music in your ears and not paying 100% attention to what is going on---could get you killed. Foam ear plugs work---at 77 I still have my hearing

Ride On works---last for life of tire and adjusts for changes due to wear, etc....and it may seal small leaks/punctures on tread area. Does not hurt tire---I have used it in about the past 20 tires on different bikes/scooters.

Ride to work?
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Tue 20 Dec 2016, 23:13

Mech 1 twa wrote:
I do wear ear plugs. This is listing to XM radio at the same time. Helmet speakers.
Me too, hearing aids. Smile

Ride ON for balance. Not really a fan of that type of thing.  Proper balance is with weights. Static.
Something rolling around inside?????
Nothing rolling around inside. Ride on and similar puncture sealants are viscous, it take a few seconds for it to rebalance the wheel once the bike gets moving. It is more accurate than fixed weights because it can compensate for tire weight which a static balancer cant. Either way tire wear due to imbalance is negligible unless it's off enough to rattle one's teeth.

Ride as much as possible. Weekend thing for me.
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Wed 21 Dec 2016, 17:45

Ok. Choose what works for you. I've tried to balance quite a few ( auto tires) that had a puncture sealant inside. Spin balance type machines. Customer complaint of steering wheel shimmy, bent wheel out of balance issues.

Any type of liquid would always cause a problem. Try to balance tire then check spin it. Amount of weight was always different. These types of balancer maybe spins wheel to 20 MPH at most.

Tire - wheel could never balance until liquid was removed. Back to static.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Wed 21 Dec 2016, 17:53

Car tires and scooter tires =apples and oranges. Get some scooter experience......most bike shops cannot even balance scooter tires, they can in most cases handle motorcycle tires.

Ride On works---been using it for years. I do own tire work. My riding career has been about 450 new tires since 1955.

I have Hein Gerike balance stand bought 30 years ago in Germany----Ride On seems to work better as it can change over life of tire. Taking rear wheel off/out during life of tire in pain in the butt ---to re balance.

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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Wed 21 Dec 2016, 18:23

Car tires and scooter tires= apples to oranges YES.
Spinning weight wheel=tire pretty much the same. Auto bolts to a hub. Scooter centered through an axle.

If it works for you GREAT. This is getting beyond wear patters. DONE.

Never been in UK. Spent some time in Germany 1983-85 . Before the the fall of Berlin wall.
Smile Ride ON
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Thu 22 Dec 2016, 00:37

On my Goldwings I balanced them by hand. Balanced the front wheels on the fork, just removed the calipers to allow the wheels to turn freely. It usually took less than two quarter ounce stick on weights to do the job. On the rear wheel I'd set the rear wheel the rear axle set up on a stand to allow it to turn. Hand balance was pretty easy that way. I've ridden well over 100mph on my GWs, and on my two SWs with no vibration detectable on a smoothly paved highway. That's good enough for me.
My GT has tire pressure monitors inside the tires so I wouldn't use Ride On or any liquid in them. It's too bad since with the single sided rear swing arm I can't set the wheel up on an axle to static balance them. Small price to pay to have the ease of removing the rear wheel.
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Wed 28 Dec 2016, 00:00

truth, I dunno why more makers don't move to single sided swingarm, at least for modern bikes (cruiser riders would never go for it, they still prefer two shocks lol)
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Wed 28 Dec 2016, 23:14

Sure worked wel on the two GL1800s I had. Pull the rear wheel easily alongside the road if necessary. Removing the wheel on both the Goldwing and the 650GT doesn't disturb the brake since the caliper and disk is attached to the swing arm, not the wheel.
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Thu 29 Dec 2016, 02:33

I never noticed that the bmw has a single sider on the scooter.
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PostSubject: Re: tires again IRC wear patterns   Thu 29 Dec 2016, 13:02

Both the C650GT and 650 Sport have single sided swing arms with a mono shock and spring setup. It has an oil bath chain drive to the rear wheel. In operation it's pretty much the same as the SW with the exception of using a chain instead of a gear reduction at the rear wheel as the SW. One other difference is the variator is on the right side with a cross shaft to the sprocket on the left. I prefer the transmission system on the SW and the GT over the Burgman's more complex system. We know the SW is a bulletproof bike, the jury is out on the BMW since it's only been on the market since 2013.
I do wish my bike looked as good as my bright red Silverwing did. The styling of the BMW is a wee bit avant-gard for my taste. In fact I wish I could have kept my B650, SW and the GT. It would be great to have all three to play with.
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