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 HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience

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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:50 pm

I'd like to hear from those who have made modifications to their SWings to achieve better front and rear end handling response and performance. I am particularly interested in what you did, how much it cost, and what differences (positive and negative) you've experienced over the OEM set up. After a week of hard, fast riding on some very technical mountain twisties, I want to research what might be done to improve the handling of my SWing.

With all due respect to those who are happy with their bog standard OEM SW and who have not actually experienced the type of modifications I am asking about ... I already know what you believe. I want to hear from those who can provide a compare and contrast between OEM and modded. Others need not waste their time stating their perplexions as to why anyone would want to change a perfectly good OEM setup. I totally get that you're happy with what you've got. I'm looking for better if it exists.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:56 pm

Hyperpro springs are a common front end mod,
They are progressive springs that reduce nose dive.
They also handled better.
When I got them they were around $125.00 IIRC
Of course that was one of my first mods over a decade ago.
Cost more to have my mechanic install then to buy the parts.
Would I do it again? Absolutely.

Dan


Last edited by dspevack on Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:06 pm

This is my best recollection of my experience on silverwing forums since 2003.
Some people are unaware that the OEM rear shocks have an adjustable preload.
But that has its limits too.
The earliest company to make rear shocks for the Silverwing was a company called Hagon.
Don't know who is doing it now.  
Most of the people that fitted them did so because they were overloading the bike.
The bike has a suggested weight limit of 386lbs.
Riding two up, some couples exceed that.  Some also exceed that single plus touring gear.
More than one couple posted that they exceeded the limit and still added their touring gear.
In every case I recall, the settings of the stock shocks simply were not strong enough for the weight put on it.
I don't recall anyone raving about how rear shocks improved the handling under normal circumstances.

Hope this helps.

Dan
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:34 pm

I also have been researching these mods.

One notable feature of the Hyperpro's is they are longer, as you remove the stock preload spacer when installing them, this is probably one of the reasons users have reported better handing.

Below are my sources for the Hyperpro front kit and the Hagon shocks for the rear.

If you go this route let us know your results.

Hyperpro Swing fork springs-$159

SP-HO06-SSA016
To order, call EPM Performance Imports at 877-786-6543

Silverwing (FSC600) Aftermarket Rear Shock Absorbers

Hagon Shocks are UK shocks but are available from two sources in the USA. They have a 2 year warranty, come with a black body & chrome (Oooo!) springs. They are not rebuildable, have three position adjustable spring preload and the springs can be tailored to your maximum load capacity needs at the time of order. They are 425 MM long. Part number 42501. They are ~$244/pair + shipping.

I think they also make a rebuilable version with adjustable rebound and compression as well as preload.
I do not have the P/N for these, but recall they're about $500 pair, you would have to ask them as I no other info.

Hagon Shocks, LLC
1788 La Costa Meadows Drive
Suite 101
San Marcos, CA 92078
760.798.8015
760.510.2758 fax
Email: hagonshocks@yahoo.com
www.hagonshocksusa.com

-And-

Dave Quinn Motorcycles
335 Litchfield Turnpike
Bethany, CT 06524-3505
203.393.2651
Fax 203.393.1725
Email: dqmcs@earthlink.net

another rear option-

YSS Shocks are the current replacements for the famous Wilbers shocks. YSS Shocks have three position adjustable preload springs and are rebuildable. The springs can be tailored to your need at the time of order also. There are two versions of YSS Shocks to fit Silverwings:

RZ362-420TR is a gas/emulsion shock with adjustable damping. They are $499/pair + shipping.
RE302-420T is a standard hydraulic type shock. They are not adjustable and are $299/pair + shipping.

YSS Shocks are available from:

Klaus Huenecke
EPM Performance Imports                                        
P.O. Box 40  Tennent, NJ 07763 USA
Tel / Fax:: (732) 786-9777  Toll-Free: (877) 786-6543
Email: info@epmperf.com
www.epmperf.com

Another shock I was able to find was  Ikon p/n 7610-1656 (for 400/600)
https://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/product-category/honda/silverwing-400/

Of course you should verify any part number with the supplier for compatibility before ordering as my information could be in error.


Last edited by Sidewinder Pilot on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:50 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
I'd like to hear from those who have made modifications to their SWings to achieve better front and rear end handling response and performance.  I am particularly interested in what you did, how much it cost, and what differences (positive and negative) you've experienced over the OEM set up.  After a week of hard, fast riding on some very technical mountain twisties, I want to research what might be done to improve the handling of my SWing.

With all due respect to those who are happy with their bog standard OEM SW and who have not actually experienced the type of modifications I am asking about ... I already know what you believe.  I want to hear from those who can provide a compare and contrast between OEM and modded.  Others need not waste their time stating their perplexions as to why anyone would want to change a perfectly good OEM setup.  I totally get that  you're happy with what you've got.  I'm looking for better if it exists.

CathyN has both HyperPros and Hagons on her '09 and rode those same twisties last week too. Hopefully she'll chime in here about her experience with these suspension upgrades for you.

Meanwhile you could add a 10mm spacer to the OEM front springs and change the fork oil to 20wt, the same as supplied with the HyperPro kit.

I've had HyperPros on both my '03 and now my '09 and notice a big improvement over the OEM front suspension. As soon as my budget allows I'll be adding Hagon's to the rear.

Sorry I missed riding with your group last Saturday.

Tim
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CathyN
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:16 am

sonuvabug wrote:
I'd like to hear from those who have made modifications to their SWings to achieve better front and rear end handling response and performance.  I am particularly interested in what you did, how much it cost, and what differences (positive and negative) you've experienced over the OEM set up.  After a week of hard, fast riding on some very technical mountain twisties, I want to research what might be done to improve the handling of my SWing.

With all due respect to those who are happy with their bog standard OEM SW and who have not actually experienced the type of modifications I am asking about ... I already know what you believe.  I want to hear from those who can provide a compare and contrast between OEM and modded.  Others need not waste their time stating their perplexions as to why anyone would want to change a perfectly good OEM setup.  I totally get that  you're happy with what you've got.  I'm looking for better if it exists.

Hi Len,

I replaced my front springs with Hyperpro's in 2013. I saw a difference in how the front tire didn't dive down.  This past winter Bob replaced the rear shocks with Hagon's.  They are a much better improvement. The bike feels more in control.  I really felt more In control in all those twisters last week.  With the Hagon's the bike sits a bit taller.  So when the kickstand is down it leans over more.  Bob attached  a 3/4 inch piece of wood to the bottom of the side stand which makes the lean a bit less.  It works for me.

I ordered them on line from The place listed above out of California.
Warning:  Good customer service but they are made in England. I ordered right before Christmas they told me about a month because of the Holidays.  I received them the beginning of March. Some delay in England.  When they came in they shipped them right away.  They were $279.00/pair USD.

Was great meeting you and Karin.  Hope to see you next year.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:24 am

Hey all, great input ... exactly what I was looking for. Dan, I know you made a ton of mods to your previous SWing and I appreciate your input. Sidewinder ... thanks for sharing all of your research. Make sure to post a review with pre/post suspension mods if you go forward. I appreciate reading first hand accounts from people who have been there - done that.

Cathy, I wish I had known you had these mods ... I would have sat down with you last week and picked your brain. Thanks for sharing.

Bottom line is it sounds like all of you who have done the shock/spring mods are happy with the results you achieved. Like Tim has, I might start with the front end because that's where I think the greatest handling gains can be had (for my needs anyway) plus I like the price a bit better than the $500 for the rears which is a bit spendy for me right now.

Thanks again everyone. Great information!
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:19 pm

Cosmic_Jumper said:
Meanwhile you could add a 10mm spacer to the OEM front springs and change the fork oil to 20wt, the same as supplied with the HyperPro kit.

I did the spacer thing on my 2002 Swing with 15wt fork oil and did not like the stiffness of my mod, and ended up replacing the spacers with the OEM spacers, but kept the heavier weight oil. It was better, but portholes and tarmac patches were a lot more noticeable than when the front end was stock.
I don't plan to modify my 2013 Swing. I have not felt the front end bottom out, but I see where my wiring for the front running lights are scratching the top of my front fender. The wires are about 3-4 inches above my fender. Will be tying the wires higher.


Last edited by Easyrider on Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:20 am

I notice a big difference with Hyperpro springs along with my Trigg trike kit applying pressure to the front .. Bottoming out is not as harsh. One of my better mods, That and going to the DS. No regrets .
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:27 am

Tinman ... what's "DS".
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:07 am

Go on Utub and look for ( Riding on the Dark side)
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:09 am

OK ... I'm quite familiar with darksiding.
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SlvrwngTraveler
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:44 pm

Just wanted to say that HyperPro kit is great improvement over OEM setup. My front end feels almost like a real motorcycle now. Turning is way more stable and those side to side wobbles are almost entirely gone. Freeway ride also improved greatly especially when going over those pavement markers and nasty potholes. With OEM shocks front end would feel like it is going to launch entire bike into the air. With HypePro springs it keeps wheel steady and grounded so you feel in control all the time. Thanks for the community for sharing this info!
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:52 am

your wobble is a loose steering nut .raise the front wheel if the steering turns to the left ,tighten the nut take a fish scale and atatch to the the left and right side .it takes a 9lbs pressure to turn the wheel on ether side and wobble goes away .if it wobble at 40 mph with hands off slightly steering is to loose .That is how I solved my problem.  good luck , PS 2 oz balancing beads in tire and the wheel will stay balance .
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SlvrwngTraveler
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:59 pm

@tinman...Appreciate sharing this info with us. Although high speed shakes are almost entirely gone thanks to HyperPro and Ride-on inside the front tire, 40mph wobble is still there.I'll look into what you suggested and see if anything improves. I'll let you know. Thanks again!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Try this to get rid of wobble-----take off top box, unload junk from under seat---assuming tires are fresh, steering head bearings in order---suspension fresh and stock----bike should go down road as it was designed. Remember these things are getting old, and unless you have had from new---who knows what "tackle box techs" might have done to it/them. Speaking from over 90,000 SilverWing miles.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:14 pm

Just some information about the head bearings. Honda used ball bearing and it tends to cause flat spots on the race, especially in the straight ahead position. These flat spots effect setting up the pre-load of 9lbs. I switched to needle bearings when I rebuilt my 02 Swing. That is my 2¢.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:00 pm

Some tires are just unbalanced.... and all the RideOn and DynaBeads can't change this because it is a lateral imbalance. Even if you put it on a balance stand and add weights, it's the fact that one side is heavier in one or more locations.

I had this problem with two different Power Pure fronts and one Shinko.
I had one Power Pure front that was completely stable and one Shinko that was.
My current City Grip is hands-off stable at all speeds, except at about 20-25mph while decelerating, where it gives a little shake.

My suspension is completely stock, I ride overloaded with gallon jugs of milk and water in the trunk and 2-3 bags of cat litter under the seat and the saddle bags full of groceries.
It has 15 years and almost 55,000 mi, 48,000 of which I've logged, and none of the steering or suspension has been serviced or replaced.

I do not have any steering issues, except when I want it to handle like a motorcycle!
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:16 pm

Mine has done around 15k miles and I've had Hyper Pro springs in the front since 11-12k. They made a definite improvement and it was well worth the effort. I never had any steering wobble until I fitted some new tyres then noticed it getting worse. I wont be using Metzeler tyres on it again.

Right now, I have the steering head bearings out to replace with roller bearings. The original bearings are ball races and there were indentations in the surface of the lower bearing. A slight notchiness could be felt with the front wheel off the ground and when gently turning from the straight ahead position. Of course, this could have contributed to the steering wobble, but I'm sure the tyres were the main cause.
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:20 am

My 2007 handles great, no issues. The only difference I'd feel with the Hyperpro and other aftermarket springs would be enlightenment in the pocket !!!!
Jay.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:53 am

Flyingpanman wrote:

Right now, I have the steering head bearings out to replace with roller bearings. The original bearings are ball races and there were indentations in the surface of the lower bearing. A slight notchiness could be felt with the front wheel off the ground and when gently turning from the straight ahead position. Of course, this could have contributed to the steering wobble, but I'm sure the tyres were the main cause.

Nooooooo, don't do it, fit new balls 'n races bud, that or put in lighter oil.
I have had taper roller bearing in for the last 4 1/2 years without issue until recently, having plenty of time on my hands, this year I've been trying various grades of fork oil, currently it's on 15w, this weekend on a rideout I went over 2 sets of roundabout approach rumble strips, on the second set it felt like the steering 'locked' in the straight ahead position. I'm guessing the added stiffness of the damping 'hammered' the rollers into the tapers beyond their specified torque limit, so it's back to the 7.5w this week.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:40 pm

Go with the roller pin bearings. It has a lot more surface area. They aren't tapered. The bearing housing is tapered not the actual rollers. When I rebuilt my 2002 Swing, the race had several indents. I had also replaced the top spacers in the forks. I used 15w fork oil. I later put back the original spacers. I did not like the stiffness it added to the front suspension. The 15w oil added some stiffness. My album has a picture of the socket I made from two sockets welded together for the triple tee shaft nut. That's my 2¢.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:21 pm

Easyrider, taper roller bearings is a term well known this side of the Atlantic, to describibe a bearing that can take axial & radial loads, as distinct from parralel roller bearings that are only designed for raial loads.
It's been a while since I visited Hawaii & things may have changed but I do not recall any rumble stips on the approach to 'rotaries' & for that matter I have no memory of rumble strips in any other of the states I have visited over the years.
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:09 pm

Can we get some clarification? There are 7 types of bearings; ball bearings, which are OEM; straight roller bearings; tapered roller bearings; spherical roller bearings; needle roller bearings; and ball thrust bearings.

Here is a link which describes the differences:  http://www.machinedesign.com/whats-difference-between/what-s-difference-between-bearings-1

So which bearing are you guys, respectively, talking about here?

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:56 pm

The Bern wrote:

Nooooooo, don't do it, fit new balls 'n races bud, that or put in lighter oil.
I have had taper roller bearing in for the last 4 1/2 years without issue until recently, having plenty of time on my hands, this year I've been trying various grades of fork oil, currently it's on 15w, this weekend on a rideout I went over 2 sets of roundabout approach rumble strips, on the second set it felt like the steering 'locked' in the straight ahead position.  I'm guessing the added stiffness of the damping 'hammered' the rollers into the tapers beyond their specified torque limit, so it's back to the 7.5w this week.

Doesn't sound good, but, as you say in your last sentence, you're guessing. I wonder if the races were not seated fully and the hammering caused a movement which resulted in the "locked" feeling? Also, was that with the original Honda springs?

I've fitted 3 sets of taper roller head bearings in 3 different machines over the last 6 years and in approx. 70k miles, had no problems at all. The original ball races all showed heavy indentations - my Kawasaki KLV1000 wore out at 20k miles, and my Silver Wing at 14k miles. I'm hoping the taper rollers will last longer because I don't want to be doing this job again on the Silver Wing any time soon.

If you do ascertain the cause of the problem, please let us know. Until then, I'll carry on with my replacement as planned.

As a footnote, I did hear reports that a well-known company of "bearing kit" suppliers were using poor quality Chinese bearings - but it could just All be a load of B*lls! The bearings I'm using are of Japanese manufacture from Pyramid Parts.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:04 am

Yes, there were seated fully. Yes, they are the original springs. Pyramid springs are supplied in the kits from All Balls which are what I used.
As you please bud, I was just relaying my findings.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:15 am

The Bern wrote:
Easyrider, taper roller bearings is a term well known this side of the Atlantic, to describibe a bearing that can take axial & radial loads, as distinct from parralel roller bearings that are only designed for raial loads.
It's been a while since I visited Hawaii & things may have changed but I do not recall any rumble stips on the approach to 'rotaries' & for that matter I have no memory of rumble strips in any other of the states I have visited over the years.

Not sure where you are going with the 'rotaries' and rumble stips(strips). My response to your post did not mention anything about rumbles and rotaries.

Not sure what 'rotaries' mean but yes we do have rumble strips here in Hawaii. Usually to get your attention of a safety condition ahead. We also have them to indicate lane change involving opposite traffic. The road shoulders also have them. Probably to awake a dozing driver.

We have roundabouts here with painted speed bumps to slow the driver down some more. This could be seen as a rotary construction.

Anyway ride safe.
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SlvrwngTraveler
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PostSubject: Re: HyperPro and/or Suspension Mods - Hands On Experience   Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:42 pm

My personal experience is even with new tires+bearings+HypePro springs I was still unable to go over 65-70 without massive amount of vibrations. The moment I added Ride-On inside front tire everything changed for better. Now front feels more stable+under control and those vibrations are barely noticeable.
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