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 New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!

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four50ncalif
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Location : San Jose CA
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PostSubject: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Thu 01 Sep 2016, 17:52

Hello fellow swing owners!!


I have just recently purchased a dead swing on Clist, The bike has been sitting since 2011. It cranks over good, but seems like there is no spark and no fuel (fuel injectors not firing). The fuel injection light stays on, no blinking

The things I have done to it so far:

New battery
checked all fuses
put fresh gas in
cleaned injectors
new spark plugs
new ignition coil
sprayed all electrical plugs with cleaner
checked relays
bench tested fuel pump (good)
bench tested fuel injectors (good)

Other Symtoms:

-There seems to be no fuel in the return line to the gas tank from the fuel rail

-I had to hot wire the fuel pump to a switched 12v wire to the fuel pump relay, I looked at the wiring diagram online, and the fuel pump is wired right to the relay (I know the relay is good what would cause there to be no power to the fuel pump?) I have yet to chase the wire

I am baffled, any help appreciated!
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Thu 01 Sep 2016, 18:09

Hello, When these scooters sit for a time the FI pressure regulator gives out.

Item # 13

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c791df870023420a3c07d/throttle-body
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 02 Sep 2016, 22:37

Gas tanks gum up with old gas. I was just talking with a silverwing owner who had their gas tank replaced due to bad gas and the bike sitting.

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four50ncalif
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Registration date : 2016-09-01

PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 02 Sep 2016, 23:33

OK Introduction Posted, Also I had the fuel pump out (thought it was bad) And at that time I drained the old gas out and now has new gas in it.

I just ordered a service manual for it so I may not try to do too much more to it until it arrives (would rather make some more educated guesses, than to just fiddle blindly)

My theory as of now is that the cam pulsar is not working properly and that the computer does not know that it is turning over and then not sending the signal to the injectors and the spark plugs.

I may need a fuel pressure regulator also
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 02 Sep 2016, 23:46

Good luck with your troubleshooting! Wish I had a miracle cure for you, but afraid this is strictly detective work now!!!
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four50ncalif
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PostSubject: Running!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 02:02

Hey guys I know it has been a while since my first post but I wanted to give an update on my Swing.

So as advised I went ahead and bought a service manual. This was a critical part in helping me figure this thing out. If you look at the wiring diagram all the issues that I was having (no spark, no fuel pump, no injectors) all are circuits that go through the ECM. So that was the first hint that the ECM might be the problem.

Just to confirm my suspicion I had my dads friend (career mechanic) help my to go through the steps listed in the service manual to test the fuel pump circut, including the fuses, relays, bank angle sensor etc.

We figured that the ECM was the culprit, so I went and ordered a used one on Ebay (new are $500). Just
yesterday it showed up, plugged it in and it started right up!!

So today I put it all back together and changed the engine oil and filter and the trans oil, It is going to need a new rear tire, but my first ride is coming soon! I am beyond thrilled to have this thing running!
Also learning a bunch about fuel injection and electronic testing ect is not too bad either.

study cheers motorcycle
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 03:00

Congrats on getting it running.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 08:15

Excellent news that you got it running! And thanks for the update, it is very helpful to the group so if another has the problem...
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 08:35

Good job troubleshooting, and welcome from o-HI-o
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 08:39

Congratulations. Even using the FSM to diagnose replacing the ECM is a tough bullet to bite. I'm glad it worked out. Did the PO indicate that there was a problem the last time it was used and that's why it was parked?

Tim
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 09:52

This is one for the oddity book. I can't recall ever hearing of a ECM failure on this scooter...Ever!

Happy to hear you got it back on the road. cheers
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 15:27

Congrats on the detective work.
And I guess that explains why its been dormant since 2011 :-)
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 17:34

Last owner must have done something wrong. Tried to jump start it, cables reversed. POS. NEG. switched or too many AMPS from a running car. Only takes a half second to FRY something.
Happy its running.
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four50ncalif
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Fri 07 Oct 2016, 18:02

Yea the PO I bought it from just said it cranks but won't start, I was surprised as well that it was the ECM , I thought it would just be clogged fuel injectors from sitting. It may have been beneficial on accident to clean the injectors and to also put new o-rings on them. While I had the fuel pump out I drained all the old gas as well, so all the effort was not spent in vain. It would have been nice to know that all I really needed to do was plug in a new computer, but theres no way no know that beforehand.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sat 08 Oct 2016, 01:31

Incorrect jump starting can certainly fry an ECM, especially if the donor battery is in a running vehicle. You can get some impressive voltage spikes that way even if one connects the battery correctly. It's a problem of the donor vehicle's voltage regulator. When that sees voltage fluctuations that are often seen connecting the two batteries it can confuse the running vehicles voltage regulator and cause nasty pulses to hit the bike's system.
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Reg
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sat 08 Oct 2016, 15:07

Seems to be the way of electronics.
On last use it worked fine.
Next time using it. Doesn't work.

Good for you getting it fixed. Hate to take that problem to a dealer. They could have made
a fortune looking for it.

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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sat 08 Oct 2016, 16:55

When I bought my sister's SWing 4 seasons ago it had sat for over two years. I trailered it home from FL to MN and put it in the garage. The battery was totally shot so I ordered a new one from Ebay for $25. I figured if it lasted one season at least I could ride it and worry about a new better battery over the winter. While it was sitting in the garage I hooked up jumper cables from my pickup to the SWing just to check the lights etc. without the pickup running. The SWing probably thought, "Man have I got a huge battery". I figured what the heck and hit the starter. It turned over about 3 times and popped right off and ran like a kitten. I let it run for a while being happy that it started and just to listen to it. It had 1/2 a tank of two year old gas in it but that didn't seem to matter. The battery came and I put it in to go on my first ride. I dumped about 1/3 of a can of SeaFoam in it and went to the gas station and topped it off. I rode around town for a while to get the feel of it then took it on the highway. It handled great! I was happy! I went home and changed the oil, filter and air filter. I took the wheels off and had the dealer put new tires on and balance them. I put the tires back on the SWing and also put a bottle of RideOn sealer/balancer in both tires and haven't had a problem since. The SWing is a great little bike!
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sun 09 Oct 2016, 04:21

Hi you guys from acros the pond constantly talk about seafoam. What is it and what does it actually do. Ive ever seen or heard of it over here, are we missing out on something?
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sun 09 Oct 2016, 07:59

Seafoam is an additive that you can either put in the gas tank or oil. I don't use it in the oil but use it in all my gas engines. It cleans engine deposits and keeps our Ethanol gas from going bad. I use it in my 5 gallon gas can for my lawn mowers and snow blower. Sometimes it will take me two or three years to use up that 5 gallons and I've never had the gas go bad. My small engine equipment starts and runs great using Seafoam. Usually my snow blower will start on the first or second pull after sitting in my shed all summer. And come spring my lawn equipment does the same. I've used it for years without any problems. About every fourth or fifth tank on my SWing I add a few ounces before I go and fill up.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sun 09 Oct 2016, 08:38

Here's the Seafoam companies product information site.

http://seafoamsales.com/
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Sun 09 Oct 2016, 18:08

Sea Foam is another miracle in a can. But it actually does seem to do some good. I started using it in my 1980 Goldwing which wasn't happy with alcohol in it's gasoline. A good does every other tank made that bike happier. I continued using it in my '93, '02 and '07 Goldwings. From that time on all my vehicles get a shot now and then. I can often see a difference in a smoother idle soon after I put a dose in the fuel. I haven't noticed a big difference with my cars or trucks but in the smaller engines it seems to help. My BMW C650 definitely wants some in it's fuel. When I run a tank of ethonol free gasoline in it the Sea Foam doesn't seem to make much difference. In Oregon it's a pain to use pure gasoline because it costs about half a buck more and there aren't all that many stations around here that sell it.
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: New Silverwing, Wont Start, Help!!   Mon 10 Oct 2016, 02:03

Thanks guys for the information. I wonder if the deep creep might be of use to me here. I repair a lot of brass musical instruments with stuck piston valves where the oil has turned hard like a sticky glue. It might help.
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