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 How come Honda is not making new Silver wings

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Lobo104
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PostSubject: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:29 pm

Does anyone know why Honda is not making or selling 2016 Swings?
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:52 pm

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, not enough.
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Lobo104
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:56 pm

I don't get it? What exactly do u mean?
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Kenjj50
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm

I'm not sure who gets the credit for the quotation, but..."When the question is I wonder why, the answer is usually money!" In the case of the SWing, apparently Honda cannot find enough people who want to spend the cost of a 2016 SWing on a motor scooter.

One problem may be that Honda is a victim of it's own success. They have a terrific 300cc scooter in the Forza and a line of DCT motorcycles in the 700cc range that will cruise at highway speeds and cost less than what Honda would need for a 2016 SWing.

Another problem suppressing a 2016 SWing is the used Honda scooter/motorcycle market. There are lots of great Honda bikes out there with low mileage for less than the cost of a new SWing. If you're in the market for a bike and not flush with funds, you're likely to look at a previously owned Honda before you buy new.

I genuinely enjoy my SWing. It is a terrific scooter. I bought is gently used with low mileage as a third owner. I wanted a CVT or DCT transmission. That and a great price affected my decision. I don't think I would lay out the money a 2016 SWing would cost. There are a lot of other choices from Honda that would make more sense for me.
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Lobo104
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:50 pm

Thanks for the info. Makes sense to me.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:33 pm

Maxi scooter market in US dead. If there were market, Honda would be there.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:47 pm

Technically the USA maxi-scooter market is not dead, but it is on it's back twitching it's legs!
Honda bailed when it's sales slumped instead of looking at why it did.

My belief is they didn't have the "Pulse of their market", as in they didn't account for the actual needs of the actual users of the machine.

They seemed to simply scale-up the smaller scooters, as if they believed that riders of the smaller machines would move up to a larger scooter after they gained experience or desired more power/speed/capacity....this is not what we've seen.

Most scooters I see are small cc units on campus, ridden by students.
When they graduate, they do not graduate to a bigger scooter, they either go caged or get a sport bike or a cruiser.....NOT a bigger scooter!

Most of the US maxi riders I see are riders that have scaled back or downsized due to a reason not of there choosing, that is age or injury making mounting and controlling a standard difficult or impossible. Because of this, a lot of us are stiffer, wider and heavier than we'd like to be.

Because of the relatively low numbers of prospective riders there was only room for one 600+cc scooter and it had to have what the older and more experienced riders wanted. Comfort and Luxury.

I truly believe that if Honda had put on a better seat, bigger windshield, and better brakes and suspension, we would have seen Suzuki as the looser in the war of the maxi-scooters and NOT Honda!

As it stands, I still would rather have an older Honda and do the mods to have those issues addressed.




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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:06 am

Sidewinder Pilot wrote:
Most of the US maxi riders I see are riders that have scaled back or downsized due to a reason not of there choosing, that is age or injury making mounting and controlling a standard difficult or impossible. Because of this, a lot of us are stiffer, wider and heavier than we'd like to be.

This was true in my case. After riding "big iron" for 45+ years I had a "mildish" stroke in May of 2011 that affected my left side--so the Harley and the 2003 Mustang Cobra, both requiring more left foot action than I retained, had to go and were replaced by an '03 400 Burgman and a '98 SL500 (also a  slushbox).

Quote :
Because of the relatively low numbers of prospective riders there was only room for one 600+cc scooter and it had to have what the older and more experienced riders wanted. Comfort and Luxury.

I truly believe that if Honda had put on a better seat, bigger windshield, and better brakes and suspension, we would have seen Suzuki as the looser in the war of the maxi-scooters and NOT Honda!

This spring i began looking to move up from the 400 and rode a few 650 Burgman's but not really fitting the mold you describe ("comfort and luxury") I found them to be bloated, mechanically overly complex and plagued by Suzuki's far too often poor metallurgy/material selection (i.e. the primary drive of the electronically controlled 60k to 75k mile lifespan CVT).

Then I found an '06 S'wing with 9100 miles, GIVI windscreen and Bill Mayer seat and knew I had found what I was looking for.

Then there is the machismo thing. Here in Florida 75% of the Harley crowd (my wife and I call them the "Rolex Riders"¹) barely acknowledge the existence of big scooter riders--some times when crossing paths they wave, but then as we pass they realise what they have done and quickly look the other way and hope their buddies didn't see they waved at a "scooter".

But then there is the satisfaction of watching them grow smaller in the rear view mirror as we leave the next light (the 400 Burgman would do that to full dressers).  

Quote :
As it stands, I still would rather have an older Honda and do the mods to have those issues addressed.

Me too!

"Motorcyclists know why dogs stick their heads out the window!"

--------------------------------------------------
¹ - Somewhat oddly the real big iron enthusiasts, not those riding Harleys to be fashionable, were always very interested in the 400 Burgman and now the Swing. I have let some I've known for years ride them and they always come back with that smile we all have.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:27 am

Of course Honda is still producing the Silver Wing, just not in the original FSC version that came out in 2000. The updated and restyled SW-T 600 ABS and 400 versions have been around since 2009, I've seen them in Austria, Italy, France, and Germany, and there's even a few members over in Europe have them.  

I've no idea why Honda in the USA don't import them, just as I've no idea why Honda UK still persists in having the original FJS Silver Wing on sale here instead of the SW-T. Anyway that's no longer an issue for me.

Anyone in the US paranoid about big Burgman transmission failures or having trouble lugging overweight Gold Wings about can opt for the BMW C series scooters which are supposed to be much improved for 2016, alternatively the Kymco MyRoad 700i ABS is available. That's another large capacity maxi that's been around for a while now but still not on sale in the UK.


Last edited by Meldrew on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:47 am; edited 3 times in total
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:28 am

In the US there's always the 'macho' crap involved with motorcycles. I've had a lot of bikes over the years cruisers, tourers, sport and trail types. I've enjoyed them all, put over 250,000 miles on Goldwings alone. I don't rate my manhood by what I ride, never fell for the "Harley Mystique" either. I loved my Goldwings, there never was a better highway motorcycle but these days I wanted something more nimble for town use, errands and occasional gravel road use. Turns out a maxi scooter was ideal for what I want these days. I still get a kick out of 'scootering' a HD once in a while off the line and on top end, but it's the scooter's utility that I prize now.

It's too bad that so many fall for the 'bad biker' image. They are cutting themselves off from some very interesting and useful machines. But the success of the 'Harley Image' has made it difficult to sell scooters in the U.S.

I don't think the manufacturers realize who their market is either. They are aiming maxi scooters at the younger crowd. The ever more sophisticated maxis aren't priced for kids. My BMW C650GT has more features than most motorcycles, certainly more than most any cruiser. That brings the price up to the range that most young folks can't pay. My scooter cost a wee bit over $11k. As a bike it shouldn't be compared to a moped type machine. It's as heavy and large as a similar powered motorcycle. Not a small under powered machine. They should be advertising this bikes as a high performing general purpose machine. Not something designed only for cities and college campi.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:44 am

lobo104, all of the above nailed it, but as that saying goes follow the money trail. IMHO Honda put a self inflicted dent in their bike market when they returned all 2 wheel MFG back to Japan, again the $$$ came to play. They had a good thing going when they had Honda Homecoming going on then they dropped that. Funny in a way I started out on a scooter, Vespa now here am back on a S'Wing Smile been through the something of each along the way. No doubt here HD saw the light early with accessories for the PERSON as well as the bike and that is a real $$$$$$$$ cow for them. We and I use that term because I'm a full lifer GW guy are having our regional get together picnic ride in southern o-HI-o coming up soon, planing on showing up on the S'Wing to have some fun and to see the reaction if any to the mini me in their midst.Smile
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Bash On!
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:49 am

Simple--because they weren't selling enough. I never would have bought my Silver Wing at the list price of $9200+. However, at $5995, I got one. Neither the dealer nor Honda made a lot of money off that sale. New in August 2015, I'd feel lucky selling it for half that now, Sad but I'm keeping it! Smile
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Gustafa
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:59 am

A new Silverwing for 2016 would be in the ballpark of $8-9,000
The NC700X & CTX700 with DCT (Auto, no clutch) are both $7,500

Such an interesting market.

The NM4 fits the middle ground, but the dealers are saying its not selling well and at $11,000 with NO storage, its just a pretty big wheel. Would love to ride them all at some point.
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the_mad_rshn
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:16 pm

Lobo104 wrote:
Does anyone know why Honda is not making or selling 2016 Swings?

You still can pick up new, old stock 2013 SWings for as little as $5K. Take a look on Cycle Trader.

Cheers,
Mad
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:51 pm

I still fail to understand why the SWing (2012-2013 anyway) had an MSRP of $9270.00. For a 600cc scooter? And why is the CTX et all priced more than 2K less? Surely the DCT has to cost way more than the CVT plus the LED lighting, and both have ABS. Color me confused, but I think the above helped with the demise of the big scooter here in the US.

Maybe I am an idiot but I paid nearly $8500.00 for my new 2012 in 2012, a heap of wampum for a scooter but I absolutely LOVE it and will keep it until the wheels (mine or its) fall off... Razz
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:26 pm

The Swing would not have survived without a complete redesign of the rider experience.
Even with the price higher then an equivalent standard MC, when you want/need a scooter, especially when you need a stepthrough because of an injury or disability, you will pay the premium price because it's the only game in town.

As far as that experience....

The seat is fine for a ride to the store or for some, an afternoon. But for a lot of us after a couple hours it feels like you're sitting on a football, then after a few more hours....the football is pointed up!

The windshield is perfect...if you like helmet buffeting!

The handlebar dimensions are just right if you're Japanese

The suspension and braking are fine for the weight you and your girl were in university

There are no Hondaline accessories available here, not even the leg wind deflectors

There are no rider accessories with Silver Wing emblems  


If Honda had, at the beginning, gone the route that Suzuki did with the Burgman, we would still see the Swing new in the US dealerships.

All things considered, any of the points I brought up can be addressed with aftermarket solutions that are like what many riders go with on any other scooter or standard. Just look at how many new stock take-off parts for H-D are on Craigslist and eBay!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:10 pm

You cannot safely overcome its carrying ability with after- market junk.
Seat fine----just ride a lot/everyday and not be overweight. Get in shape.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:30 am

Sidewinder Pilot wrote:
The Swing would not have survived without a complete redesign of the rider experience.

The seat is fine for a ride to the store or for some, an afternoon. But for a lot of us after a couple hours it feels like you're sitting on a football, then after a few more hours....the football is pointed up!

There are no rider accessories with Silver Wing emblems  

I find the seat fine, I have a unused Airhawk sitting in forlornly in a box in my garage. Try wearing briefs or boxers that aren't sweat absorbing cotton or have seams around your butt to cause pressure points and monkey butt. $20 or $30 spent in your UnderArmour outlet is a darn sight cheaper than emptying your wallet for a new seat.

Rider accessories with Silver Wing emblems ... really? Smile
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:05 am

Rider accessories with Silver Wing emblems ... really! :lol!:

HaHaHa, Just an example of what the Harley and Goldwing riders are attracted to, well mostly the Harley guys. I see Harley on everything with some riders, probably even wearing orange underwear!

The seat IS uncomfortable, and there are plenty of riders for whom it is enough of an issue to switch to a Corbin or Russell. I did a nearly 2000 mile ride over 4 days and decided to get the Corbin.

The truth is the "change nothing, ride it as it came, if it isn't just as you need get something else, you're just wasting money modifying and re-configuring" mindset is in the vast minority of forum members and motorcyclists in general....The custom motorcycle industry is huge for a reason, many riders want their machine to fit them and their riding style, as well as their personality.
Personally, I am a Function over Form guy, so, no I don't want Silverwing emblems!
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:49 am

I can't say I've ever found the seat uncomfortable on long trips. Comfort is a very subjective thing though and maybe my arse is just Silverwing shaped!

I don't bother modifying anything (except the screen) - I prefer to save the cash for fuel and servicing so that I can do some more riding.

However, if you can afford to do both then fine... fill yer boots!
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:24 am

Same here mate, I did ask for heated grips and wind deflectors fitted from new, but apart from an Airflow and a Givi rack I've left mine bog standard. I'll remove the mirror extenders, DennisB sat nav mount, and fork leg protectors when I PX mine. I'll probably remove the Airflow and refit the OE screen before long too.
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:32 am

At first my stock seat was uncomfortable, that is until I readjusted the butt rest, now 150 miles isn't bad at all, next move will be converting it into a back rest / support to see if that helps more. I tried beads and a sheepskin, the beads were ok but the sheepskin kept trying to get off in the curvies, should I take the skin off the sheep?
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:03 am

I like my fun, and riding is just that, cheap. Everything on the bike has to have a function: either mechanical or safety or whatever, but not decoration. I have ordered a CeeBailey windshield this past weekend because it was on sale and free shipping. I made my own leg guards: they are not the prettiest but they are on there solid and work great. I do have buddies who spend oodles on their already exhorbitantly expensive bikes, but harley ever ride them.
I get them cheap, keep them in good shape and get the most enjoyment that I can. My three rides would not, collectively, pay for my buddy's second-hand Harley. His excuse: don't smoke, don't drink, so I can spend my money on my honey (harley).
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:24 pm

Different people, different butts. The SW seat suited me well but the Teutonic pad on my GT isn't ideal for me. I'm going with a Corbin seat on the BMW. On the other hand the GT has an excellent electrically operated windshield. too bad you can't get it all in one machine but any of these maxis like the SW are good starting places to modify for personal comfort.
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:01 pm

I have a bead seat cover which I find beneficial - similar to this:

https://www.beadrider.com/

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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:14 pm

I had a similar bead pad on my 1500 Goldwing. I just never got used to it.

And of course there's the risk of having a 'golf ball' posterior. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:17 pm

cause they last forever , lol , the truth is i would buy 3 new ones if they still made them and i had the funds ,

i agree with other post about "macho biker mentality" i have rode bikes since i was a pup , and i was sure i wouldn't like the silver wing or other maxi scooters after riding the smaller variety , but i love them and i wouldn't go back and don't care about what others think when i am cruising the wing .
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:27 pm

exavid wrote:
I had a similar bead pad on my 1500 Goldwing. I just never got used to it.

And of course there's the risk of having a 'golf ball' posterior. Razz



The real question is, does golfball butt hurt more or less the monkey butt?
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:07 am

Hopefully Monkey Butt is more painful, they don't make Golf Ball Butt powder.
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PostSubject: How come Honda is not making new Silverwings   Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:29 am

Hi All,
Long time no Silverwing
I bought a new 2014 CTX 1300 a year ago and am still smiling. I enjoyed my new 2009 swing for 4 years but being of significant weight ....ahem......riding poor roads I wanted to upgrade wheel size, missed the manual clutch, wanted shalt drive, LED'S and made the change.
I agree the swing is a great ride and ironically the CTX 1300 was not marketed right but has a committed rider base though no where as large as the Silverwing and so far has not made a later production year.
If you drop into the CTX 1300 Forum you will see the same type of rider loyalty with very particular wants for wheels. I'm sold but dropped into to this Forum to see what's what.
I think Honda has moved away from the Silverwing ..........but once I though I was wrong but I was mistaken.
Ciao,
EasyriderSilverwinger
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:33 am

Admin Hat On; Looking to follow up on the "V" Light/Wont Start conversation? I meged it to the appropriate Topic.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: How come Honda is not making new Silver wings   Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:07 am

It has to be sales and market demand. As mentioned, the US master is primarily 3 segments.  Those being cruisers, sport, and off road.  Scooters are a niche market that has been left to the cheap Chinese importer.  Certainly there are some of us who like a quality scooter, but not enough to sustain dealer inventories.

I'll save my rant about the"too cool to acknowledge" crowd for a different thread.

Be the fountain, not the drain.
Randy
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