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 Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.

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lowkey
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PostSubject: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:52 pm

I noticed the Honda manual starts the instructions out with
turning the the "tensioner lifter shaft fully and secure it...."

It appears turning the shaft is supposed to relieve at least
some tension on the cam chain, but then it has you turning the
crank to get TDC on the compression stroke.  Turning
the crank when the cam chain tension is somewhat
relieved would seem to make the cam chain prone
to jumping some teeth on the cam sprockets.  I think the
technical copywriter was confused and the engineers the
copywriter consulted did not proofread the whole thing.
I believe the cam chain tension should only be relieved if
actually removing the cams to ADJUST the clearances.  
Am I right or am I wrong?
No wonder folks are afraid to check valve clearances if doing
so screws up the cam timing.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.    Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:14 pm

Although adjusting the valves on a S/W is a job, I believe the reason that it is not done very often is that it has never been (or rarely) found necessary. Releasing the tension that slight amount will not cause the chain to jump. I have seen chains jump but they had been so loose they would ware through the side of a motor. Although not
invented by Honda the shim and bucket system they use is a very good design. The original flat head Fords had the simplest system of them all,until it came time to do a valve job.Grind the seat or the valve stem. Howard
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lowkey
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:15 am

NWSSC wrote:
......Releasing the tension that slight amount will not cause the chain to jump. ......"

Oh? Mine did, hence my wait-a-minute thought and
subsequent post.
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:31 pm

I noticed this in the manual as well when I checked my valve clearances.
I've never heard of having to do it on any other bike.
Perhaps the manual is wrong and that bit is meant to be in the section on adjusting clearances rather than checking them.

I really can't see any reason why you would need to slacken it off just to check the clearances.Apart from the inconvenience of doing it there would be little point in carefully aligning the relevant mark for TDC if the cams can move a bit independently of the crank i.e. if the chain is loose.

For these reasons I didn't slacken mine off when I checked my clearances and it all went fine.

It is a bit of a pain turning the engine over with a hex key in the hole on the right hand side of the engine so next time I'll probably do it when I change the belt - that way the engine can be turned with a wrench on the variator nut which would be a lot easier and more precise.
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:10 pm

Hello everyone!  I am not a skilled mechanic and would not attempt checking valve clearance adjustments or anything approaching it -- though I wished I was skilled and confident to do it, I know I am not.

My question is, the Honda mechanic recommended I do the 16,000 mile check up for $700 US which includes checking the valves.  If I had the money available, I would simply say, "sure, go ahead and do it," but from what I have read on this forum, it seems it is almost for sure not necessary.

I'm having the v-belt replaced and new front brake pads installed which will come to about $370 US (parts and labor).  I love my Silver Wing but I am on a fixed income and have to watch every penny.  Lucky me, my Swing was received as a gift -- brand new off the lot with 3 miles on the odometer.

Any feedback on whether I'm simply being a cheapskate to pass on the valve adjustment check, or negligent for not having it done, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds!

Steve
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:32 pm

I have never ever heard of a Silverwing need the valves adjusted.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:49 pm

Steve, I have to be honest mine (also a gift) is currently on 33,000 & I've never given a thought to valve clearances, when the engine is running it sounds the same as when I collected it (no rattles) & performance has not deteriorated either.
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Siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:54 pm

if it aint broke dont try to fix it simples
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:23 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
I have never ever heard of a Silverwing need the valves adjusted.

In the 2002-2013 service manual on page 3-3, and as you I'm sure you are already aware, it is referred to as "valve clearance" under the 16,000 mile column. I've been following this topic for a while on this forum, and have only read that it is extremely unlikely that this needs to be checked.

Thanks for your response Cosmic Jumper, much appreciated. This will save me a pretty penny! $300 to be exact. Smile
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:24 pm

siataukreg wrote:
if it aint broke dont try to fix it simples

Agreed, and thank you!
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:27 pm

The Bern wrote:
Steve, I have to honest mine (also a gift) is currently on 33,000 & I've never given a thought to valve clearances, when the engine is running it sounds the same as when I collected it (no rattles) & performance has not deteriorated either.

Thanks Bern! I know now that I will definitely pass on this valve clearance adjustment task for sure!
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:29 pm

Tensioner only needs to be released if you want to remove the cams. Engine should only be turned in one direction to keep proper tension on chain. Not sure which. Honda most likely clockwise.

Shim under bucket design. Cam lobe contacts bucket. Shim is under bucket, shim contacts top of valve stem. Clearance is changed by replacing shim with a different thickness shim.

Never did a SW but have on several Yamaha engines. Its not easy if shims need to be replaced.
Just getting there is half of it. Careful measurement of clearances and rechecking cam timing is the key.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:37 pm

I rode 2, purchased new SilverWings out to 50,000 miles each. Never worried about checking valve clearance. Remember tearing into something can cause more trouble than that you are trying to prevent
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:48 am

john grinsel wrote:
I rode 2, purchased new SilverWings out to 50,000 miles each.  Never worried about checking valve clearance.  Remember tearing into something can cause more trouble than that you are trying to prevent

Thank you, John. I'm with you on that and will not worry about it either. If the day comes when issues to do with the cam chain tension become apparent, I'll have it done then. Remember, I'm not a mechanic by any stretch, but sure love riding my Silver Wing every single day for commuting or joy riding up/down the coast.

Steve
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:59 am

Hi Steve I've ridden several honda bikes most of which apparently need the valve check and in all cases it's almost impossible to get to without stripping the bike. When I got my Honda Blackbird I joined the blackbird site and became friends with John Smith the owner of the site and Blackbird mechanic with his own company JAWS motorcycles. He made a living repairing and servicing Blackbirds and members would ride across the country to him for a service. He is a great guy and totally honest in his work and whilst he would do the valve check if requested he openly told us not to bother. In 10 years of doing the job and working on Blackbirds every day he had found only one bike that wasn't within spec for the clearances and that at 86000 was still within the accepted tollarances. He worked on bikes with well over 100000 miles, he reckoned that the engine on the bike was big powerful and seldom stressed! I personally think the same about the Silverwing. My Blackbird has over 60000 on it and Silverwing 35000 and I don't foresee my inquisitivity overcoming my comon sense when it comes to wanting to look inside my cylinder head cover!
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:32 am

Smile if you will, but nevertheless true Smile Since it has no odometer to go by no engine hour meter AND is at least 48 years old, and at one time was used in a commercial operation, I did a valve clearance check on it one winter. Not only were the valves in spec but the valve train and rocker arm and valve cover remarkably clean. I did do my 1100 GSGK, and my 500, shims, no need for adjustment I can recall.
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:41 pm

HORNBLOWER wrote:
I personally think the same about the Silverwing. My Blackbird has over 60000 on it and Silverwing 35000 and I don't foresee my inquisitivity overcoming my common sense when it comes to wanting to look inside my cylinder head cover!

Thank you Hornblower! I appreciate your feedback and how opening up the engine to check for something that is almost 99.9% not worth doing is not worth doing. Smile

Steve
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Honda Manual and Valve Clearance Checks.   Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:45 pm

oldwingguy wrote:
Smile if you will, but nevertheless true Smile Since it has no odometer to go by no engine hour meter AND is at least 48 years old, and at one time was used in a commercial operation, I did a valve clearance check on it one winter. Not only were the valves in spec but the valve train and rocker arm and valve cover remarkably clean. I did do my 1100 GSGK, and my 500, shims, no need for adjustment I can recall.

Thanks OldWingGuy! I'll save the cash and not open up the engine for something that for the most part would be a waste of time and energy. And if the mechanic doesn't put it back together perfectly again, might cause problems down the road.

Steve
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