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 Nothing happening when I turn the key on

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cotetoi
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 483
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
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Registration date : 2013-06-27

PostSubject: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Sun 10 Apr 2016, 19:27

My bike is a 2005, with 20,000 km or thereabouts. I put the battery in today from storage and everything came on as expected. The starter turned over, making the normal noises, but wouldn't catch. I tried a few times and the battery got weaker and weaker. So, I had the bright idea to boost it with my car battery, car off, not running.
I hooked the negative to the centrestand, no luck starting but the rubber spring cover on the centerstand started smoking ! So, I hooked the negative directly to the battery.
I turned the key on, no lights on the dash: there was a clicking sound behind the dash, but no lights. No luck starting !!!!
So, I unhooked the battery and put it on charge again in the house. I don't know what I cooked, I hope nothing. I am hoping it is just a fuse somewhere, but where exactly do I start? Aside from routine maintenance, my knowledge is minimal.
I am hoping you guys will give me some advice. I have a service manual handy and will get to it as soon as I get off the forum.
Thank you.
Jay.
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cotetoi
Silver Wing Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Sun 10 Apr 2016, 20:20

Looking back, I know I left the ignition switch on the "on" position. I did not switch the bike off, figuring I'd just have to press the start button only. Did not switch off between hooking up the batteries !! I looked in the big book, and it says that working the electricals with the bike switched on is a no-no. It may damage components of the electrical system. I am hoping that it did not do too much damage.
I will start looking tomorrow. My buddy who had a 650 burger is going to provide some input; he has way more experience.
The ignition switch is not to be taken lightly !!!!
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mohammadlee
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Sun 10 Apr 2016, 21:01

You have have blown the 30amp fuse or fried the starter solenoid.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Sun 10 Apr 2016, 21:02

You also have to pull the brake lever back to the second click or it will not start.
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cotetoi
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider


Number of posts : 483
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
Points : 2199
Registration date : 2013-06-27

PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Sun 10 Apr 2016, 21:30

Dspevack, the starter was working okay in the first series of attempts. It was making normal " noises", it just wasn't "catching". In the first attempt at boosting, I used the centerstand as a ground, and managed to cook the rubber cover on the spring. In the second attempt I used the negative post on the battery. I think I forgot to turn the ignition to the " off" position in trying all this.
At the second boost attempt, I saw no lights on the dash: nothing lit up. I heard a noise coming from the dash. I promptly disconnected everything and put the battery back on charge o/night. I figured I'd done enough damage for one day.
I've seen the Dennis B pictorial on locating the main fuse behind the battery. That will be the first order of business tomorrow.
Thanks for the reply, and to mohammadlee for the fast replies. I am hoping for a quick ( easy and cheap) fix. It really hasn't given me any problems so far.
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 00:40

It's apparent that the side stand itself doesn't have continuity to the bike frame and the total current from the battery to the starter was passing through the spring. The resistance of the spring would cause a notable voltage drop across the spring. That would result in lower voltatge to your starting system and a lot of IR heating to the spring. You should connect the negative lead from your good battery to the negative terminal of your bike battery and of course the positive car battery lead to your positive battery terminal. That will provide full voltage to the bike's electrical system as well as recharging your bike battery to some extent depending on the time it's in parallel with the car battery.

One thing you might want to check is that your kick stand spring still has sufficient tension. Heating a spring can remove the temper of the metal making for a weak spring. Usually it takes nearly red hot temperature to do that so yours probably is okay. But check that the stand will still snap up.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 04:47

I would strongly advise that you DO NOT start your car/truck when jump starting your bike. Automotive alternators produce too much amps and could easily damage your bike's electrical system. Make sure you source vehicle is turned off before connecting the cables.

Connect the cable to your bike then to your source vehicle. On the source vehicle, connection the positive first, then the negative cable. This assumes negative ground systems. If you connect the negative cable first, you could cause a spark/short should the positive cable make contact with any grounding source which could be most any part of your vehicle. My 2¢.
cotetoi, good luck. Hopefully it is just the main fuse. Smile
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 13:57

Good advice.
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cotetoi
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 483
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 15:03

Progress report. Got the side panel off to check the main fuse. I thought I'd remove the grab handles to make things easier. Got 3 bolts off ok, but the last one on the far right is on there really really good. I couldn't budge it. My buddy tried, no go. We were able to pull the grab bar enough out of the way to get the job done.
All fuses checked out, except the main 30 amp. We replaced it and got the dash to light up, but it wouldn't turn over.
The battery indicated full charge this morning, but it lost it all real quick. Went shopping, got one same size as OEM and that could go on its side. It is on charge at the dealer, waiting for 24 hours. Only getting 56 CCA from the old battery on testing. I am keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow.
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 16:45

You don't have the kick stand down do you?
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 18:21

Okay, guys, I am a greenhorn, but I learn quick. Nope, my car was not powered when I hooked up the battery. My mistake was with putting the negative clamp on the centrestand. And I quickly realised that the sidestand was down when I tried to start. It came up quick but no go.
I take all your suggestions but it gets tiring when people offer advice before reading my initial post. It is all there. Just saying......
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 19:21

No problem, no more responses to you.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Nothing happening when I turn the key on    Mon 11 Apr 2016, 19:49

Sounds like we are back to square one which is not a bad thing.
Looking over your posts I could not tell if this was the first startup of the season or not. On my initial start up i never touch the throttle on starting. You may not want to run the S/W starter to long at a one time. Good luck let us know. Howard
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 20:08

cotetoi wrote:
Okay, guys, I am a greenhorn, but I learn quick. Nope, my car was not powered when I hooked up the battery. My mistake was with putting the negative clamp on the centrestand. And I quickly realised that the sidestand was down when I tried to start. It came up quick but no go.
I take all your suggestions but it gets tiring when people offer advice before reading my initial post. It is all there. Just saying......
Jay.

Hm, I just read through your initial post and you did not mention whether you had your SW standing on the center stand or the side stand.  I think you should be grateful for the advice you get, otherwise members might get " tired " of trying to help you. Evil or Very Mad
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cotetoi
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 483
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
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Registration date : 2013-06-27

PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Mon 11 Apr 2016, 21:55

Okay, guys. My apologies. I should have explained my situation a bit better , but my mistake. Didn't mean to offend anybody. I went back and re-read my posts and I can see where I could have been clearer. It was my first attempt to start the SWing, from storage. I saw a Youtube video where the guy used the frame to ground the hook-up on his motorcycle. I figured I'd do the same , but stopped when I smelled the burning rubber.
I re-attached the cables to the battery, but I think, I did not switch the ignition off.
That may have caused the main fuse to blow. The remainder fuses in the storage area are all okay. We got the lights back up on the dash after swapping the 30A main fuse. When we tried the start again this morning, the battery lost cranking power very quickly. That led to ordering a new battery and tomorrow will tell the rest of the story.
I do take your suggestions and advice seriously, so, don't hold it against me. Thanks.
Jay.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Tue 12 Apr 2016, 09:20

FWIW I had a similar problem where the scoot would crank away just fine but the scoot wouldn't start. Fearing the worse I checked every component in the starting & running system --fuel pump, coil, battery voltage, etc. I even tried the car jump start thing --still no joy. I was more disturbed and flummoxed than John Grinsel spotting a Silverwing attached to an RV.

Long story short it turned out that, even though it read 12V, my battery was too "weak" to crank the bike AND power the ignition/injection system at the same time. I replaced the battery and the scoot fiired up and ran like a charm.

Good luck, Jay. I'm confident that a new battery will solve your dilemma.

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Tue 12 Apr 2016, 13:14

The only good way to check a battery is to connect a voltmeter to it and read the voltage while cranking the engine. Anything below 10V is unlikely to start the engine.
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cotetoi
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Number of posts : 483
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Tue 12 Apr 2016, 15:34

Quick update, guys. Dropped the new battery in, she started after a few tries, and is running smoothly.
Phewww, dodged a big bullet. Weather permitting, she's going for a spin tomorrow !!!
Thank you all for your input.
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Tue 12 Apr 2016, 23:27

Congratulations! A scooter on the road is worth two in the garage as they say.
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cotetoi
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Number of posts : 483
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
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PostSubject: Re: Nothing happening when I turn the key on   Wed 13 Apr 2016, 07:19

Thank you, Paul. It was a big relief when she came back to life !!!!
Jay.
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