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 Belt Drive Change

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Jdduke
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PostSubject: Belt Drive Change   Thu 19 Nov 2015, 19:34

I am new to the forum and need some  much needed advice from everyone. I have decide to do my maintance on my 2008 silverwing instead of taking it to the dealership. The amount that they want for the 3 yr maintance is really too high. I am in the process of doing my 52k mile check. After changing the air filter that looked like it has not been changed in awhile, this lead me to start checking other things as well like the belt drive. This looks like a pretty straightforward process until I got to taking the cover off. The cover came off with no problem. however,  I notice some type of grease on the inside cover where the clutch is located. Is this normal? Any idea what this from? I am not sure how to place a picture of this from my iPad or I would attach it.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Thu 19 Nov 2015, 21:00

I would suggest you purchase a genuine Honda shop manual before you tear into anything.

"Three year check" - - -never heard of it.

Shop manual has maint. schedule----oil/filters and drive belt every 16,000 miles. Tires as needed in correct size/speed rating.

These scooters are not really cheap to keep on road.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Thu 19 Nov 2015, 22:53

I believe that Mr Grinsel misspoke regarding the SW being "not really cheap to keep on the road". Quite the contrary, all the scoot really needs is regular oil and filter changes, a belt change between 16K & 20K mile intervals, and an occasional air filter. All regular maintenance. The only disappointment with the SW --and this is what Mr Grinsel may be referring to-- is the rear tire life.

Do spring for a Factory Service Manual (FSM) though. They are pretty much all the same though there was a ECM change in 2008 when Honda added an O2 sensor in exhaust. But otherwise mechanically all SWs are the same.

The above said, if you are going to be having your service performed by the dealer you are going to be considerably light in the wallet and probably receive sub par service because Silverwings are rarely seen in by the techs so the kind of "do the best they can".

Grease on the inside of the cover? Grease would only come from the Driven Pulley / torque spring assembly. The entire Driven Pulley assembly is removed by locking up the rear brake and removing the 22mm nut which holds the assembly on the Final Drive input shaft. Oil, on the other hand, would come from a leaking oil seal. The crankshaft seal is a PITA to replace, but doable without special tools. The Clutch Bell oil seal (at the Final Drive) requires first removing the Clutch Bell with a special tool, or crafty use and luck with a long-arm puller.

Tim
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Belt Drive Change    Thu 19 Nov 2015, 23:08

I would second the motion to purchase a shop manual. If you see grease(oil) by the clutch it might be oil from the final drive. There is an oil seal behind the clutch drum. It would not be impossible for you to replace but probably around a 6-7 on a scale from 1-10. I would not worry to much unless it were dripping out of the weep hole on the bottom of the rear part of the cover. Check it again on the next clutch inspection. Look around you will find this replacement on U Tube. Howard
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Jdduke
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Thu 19 Nov 2015, 23:10

John thanks for the reply and the reminder that I do have a "genuine Honda shop manual". What I was referring to with the 3 yr  maintenance is the package that Honda will sell to preform the maintenance  for 3 yr or 36k miles.

As for the drive pulley. on page 10-3 the cover is referred to as the left cover. The interior of this cover in the manual is clean as it can be. Below is a picture of mine. Do you think that the driveshaft bearing has gone out or something else?
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 02:36

I am a little bit confused about the 3 yr service too. If it is a 2008 model, is the 3 year period not long expired? Or was it sitting at the dealers for a few years? Generally if it is 3 yrs or 36000 miles then whatever comes first brings on the service.
Unfortunately I have developed a fair bit of mistrust to the Honda dealers workshop service. Bought my SW from a Honda dealer " just fully serviced" and the air filter was totally clogged up. Crying or Very sad I dropped all fluids, change oil filter and I am confident she will be a goer for a long time yet. Over here in Australia a lot of Honda mechanics have never seen a SW before. Luckily most of the standard service tasks can be easily performed by anyone with a bit of common sense, the right tools, a service manual and, or help from members on the forum.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 04:58

Hi bud Smile Sorry but I can't see your picture very well, there is a support bearing for the clutch shaft in the cover which should be greased occasionally.


Hello & Welcome by the way Smile


EDIT : Ignore this post as I was wrong that bearing is "sealed for life" please see 3 posts down as to the bearing that does need greasing Embarassed


Last edited by The Bern on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 13:51; edited 1 time in total
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 08:43

I still say not cheap to keep on road.....if you ride a lot and have dealer do work. I do work myself except warranty, including tires.

Belts OEM not cheap and 100% necessary, 16,000-20,000 miles. Walking sucks!

And NOW that there are no new SilverWings available in US----more and more older ones that have in many cases been sitting for years will be purchased, cheap I hope, and problems related to age/non use show up.

My second new SilverWing, left over 2013, near 30,000 miles will be last, as I simply like to ride under warranty.

Problem for me, picking next machine in the spring----one problem extremely low trade in prices offered for SilverWing or any other maxi-scooter as US market appears to be dead.

Tires---I have had good luck with Michelin from Dennis Kirk, $40-60 for Power Pure rear. After 60 years and over 1.5 million miles, I find 10,000 miles from rear acceptable, given Performance requirements of MC rear tire. Local Honda Dealer can get me tires for decent price,too.
Front----IRC works well, but expensive, even matched with Michelin rear=work fine
Dealer cost high on changing rear=high simply because of poor design and mickey mouse work required to get wheel in and out.
Never would think of car tires, as I "ride" rather than "drive" bike and like 100% performance in case of emergency/panic move.

As buyer of over 75 new bikes/scooters over the years-----BMW dealer offered $9200 difference to trade on BMW scooter. Probably could buy scooter outright for $10,000! Not buying from him.

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Bash On!
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 09:06

john grinsel wrote:
As buyer of over 75 new bikes/scooters over the years-----BMW dealer offered $9200 difference to trade on BMW scooter.  Probably could buy scooter outright for $10,000!   Not buying from  him.


Cheeky BMW dealer.  It's not like BMW scooters are flying off the shelves.

At only $800 trade-in value, I'd consider running the SW into the ground, not doing any maintenance except for safety items. I know you like to ride under warranty, but this would be sorta the same thing--riding and not worrying about the cost of repairs!
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PostSubject: Belt Drive Change    Fri 20 Nov 2015, 09:59

Not to be argumentative but the clutch bearing that needs to be lubricated is inside the clutch housing and not in the cover.
Howard
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 13:53

Howard, I've edited my post to recognise the info in yours bud Smile
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 20 Nov 2015, 20:09

Not cheap but there's always the fun of riding a type machine one hasn't ridden before. With careful searching you can save money on parts. I found replacement belts for my 650GT for $100 which is a lot better than BMW's $300 belt which is identical but without their stamp on it.

There's no doubt motorcycles and scooters really aren't the cheapest form of transportation, a small car is actually cheaper over time but not nearly as much fun.
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AldusFran
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 09:32

I just installed a new Erlandson (Gboost) belt and Honda roller weights. From measuring top width of old belt found it was about 2mm less than new belt. After a test ride found less squealing noise coming from belt area. A couple of the original rollers where worn ovalish so a new set was an easy choice. Will keep swing riders up to date on performance and wear of Erlandson belt. For $40.00 less than Honda belt thought I'd give it a try.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 09:54

AldusFran wrote:
I just installed a new Erlandson (Gboost) belt and Honda roller weights. From measuring top width of old belt found it was about 2mm less than new belt. After a test ride found less squealing noise coming from belt area. A couple of the original rollers where worn ovalish so a new set was an easy choice. Will keep swing riders up to date on performance and wear of Erlandson belt. For $40.00 less than Honda belt thought I'd give it a try.


An alternative source for the belt? Please tell us more; how did you find out about it; where'd ya get it?

Tim
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 12:33

Tell me after 15,000 miles how it performs like OEM belt, pls. Walking sucks, carry spare belt.

Possible belt trouble along road, not fun/dangerous and can get expensive as well as inconvenient.

With now near 400,000 rubber band drive scooter miles using OEM belts and only one broken/shredded belt under way (Helix) I think sticking with OEM belt better and probably cheaper in long run.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 17:19

I have to change the belts on the SWing and the Helix, hopefully early next season. If I buy thru EBay and get US delivery ( free), it will still cost $160.00 or so for the Erlandson belts. With the exchange and taxes, I am looking at $240.00. I am planning to do the work myself, but still, keeping two scooters is not cheap; but, oh so much fun !!!
The grease could come from the bearing that is inside the cover, maybe an overzealous application.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 19:22

I can buy the Mitsuboshi belt ( which I think is the OEM supplier for Honda) on Ebay from Italy for under US $ 100 inclusive freight. ( eBay item number:351163110266 )
I definitely would not buy one, which has got different measurements to the original!
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ridr44
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 21:21

Guys, I just had the belt changed recently by the dealer at 17k. Now there is a huge noise when I take off or strain the engine. Any idea why that would be? Thanks. Dan
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 21:54

I would be making a huge noise about the huge noise at the dealers, where you had your belt fitted!
Stories like this do not help much to restore my already tarnished image of the "quality of workmanship" in the Honda dealer's service departments. No
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 05:22

Cotetoi, These guys supply Gates belts & will ship orders to Canada & USA ... http://www.wemoto.com/ ... there are quite a few of us with that belt fitted to our silverwings & none reporting any problems, not looked to see if they do one for helix though
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AldusFran
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 08:57

Tim, I bought the Erlandson belt from Amazon for $80.81 plus free shipping ,the belt comes from Powersport Superstore in Cedar Park,TX. The belt arrived in three days "amazing". After about 1000 miles I will check belt condition and look at my clutch and clutch shoes for glazing.
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AldusFran
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 09:13

ridr44, Do youself a favor and get a Honda Silverwing service manual from Ebay or Amazon. The one I got is a 2002-2005 print and it works for my 2009 Swing. That way you can look inside the Swings drive face and see what's goes on inside, maybe the inside wasn't clean properly by dealer, check out rollers ( maybe some are oval) like mine where. Maybe you'll find the original belt still there. I have very little faith in dealers working on my bikes. Good luck...Al
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 09:55

I have learned to check over my bikes when I pick them up from any shop. Dealer overfilled my 600 vlx, another shop tightened the drum brakes on my 750 cruiser to the point where the brakes started smoking, same shop badly scratched the swingarm on the SWing during a rear tire change. It pays to thoroughly look over their work and check the bike mechanically as soon as you get it back. Leave it too long and they claim that it was not them that screwed up.
The bern, thanks for the link to wemoto. Will check them out.
Jay.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:07

The bern, I looked up wemoto, and found both belts, but the price is no better. The site takes off the VAT, but even at that, with the exchange, it's no better than the local dealer. Thanks anyway.
Jay.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 14:50

Sorry it didn't work out bud Sad
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razorback
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 09 Mar 2016, 09:12

I just finished changing belt and installing Dr puller sliders, was wondering how to reset the 16k counter as i saw no sensor

i inspected the belt soon after i got the swing to me it looked new..... yesterday after watching a vid and changing the belt i measured the belt width and it was a stock belt with no markings on it... 24k miles.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 09 Mar 2016, 11:32

Easy to do. With key off, hold down BOTH odometer buttons and turn key to on position and wait several second until the V light flashes, then release buttons.
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razorback
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 09 Mar 2016, 19:57

thanks a bunch .....
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Thu 10 Mar 2016, 14:54

gremlin wrote:
I would be making a huge noise about the huge noise at the dealers, where you had your belt fitted!
Stories like this do not help much to restore my already tarnished image of the "quality of workmanship" in the Honda dealer's service departments. No

Our Honda dealership here would more than tarnish your image of their "quality" of workmanship. It would explode it.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Thu 10 Mar 2016, 15:21

exavid wrote:
Our Honda dealership here would more than tarnish your image of their "quality" of workmanship. It would explode it.

It is very sad indeed when you get mediocre workmanship at a Specialist Dealer for the top dollar you have to pay. To make matters worse, I have been told by a mechanic, that whenever a scooter is rolled into the workshop, the " top gun" mechanics scatter and hide until the job has been allocated to an apprentice or "the slow one", who couldn't get away fast enough. There is a hierarchy which dictates that it is more glorious to work on a big road bike and they hate the tupperware even more than us riders.
The upside of that is that it forces SW riders to do a good deal of their own maintenance / repairs, which makes us more familiar with our machine, saves us a packet and is probably one of the main reasons why we find ourselves on a great forum like this one cheers
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CnR
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 15:43

After changing the belt and torquing the variator Bolt, is it okay to have it too tight? I know people have said it's supposed to be 76 foot pounds, but I don't have a torque wrench and was just wondering if it would be okay for to be too tight?


Last edited by CnR on Wed 16 Mar 2016, 16:53; edited 1 time in total
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bicyclenut
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 16:49

I would advise you to pick up a torque wrench and tighten to the specific recommended torque. The clicker types are not that expensive, I've seen them on sale at Sears for about $50 and probably can find at Harbor Freight as well, certainly can pay $$$ if you buy a digital Snap-On version. If you are going to do maintenance and work on you Swing it is good to have.

Both under torquing and over torquing can have bad outcomes. Under torquing can cause a bolt to loosen and come off.  Over torquing can warp metal or weaken metal. As I recall, parts of the variator are aluminum, so a lighter and softer metal, being tightened down with a steel bolt.

I think it would be hard to distinguish too tight or not tight enough without a torque wrench.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 16:50

Is it okay if I don't do the job right? scratch

Who or what is Andrey?

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CnR
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 16:54

Edited. Sorry not everybody is perfect LOL. Got to love auto correct on phones LOL
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ScottO
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 18:06

I learned my over torquing lesson 20 years ago. When I put my snow tires on I wanted to make sure they were on tight enough so they wouldn't come off by accident. Come spring, a couple lug bolts on each tire broke off while taking the nuts off. Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 18:54

Could cost a lot more than a torque wrench if that variator bolt broke off in the shaft to the engine and had to be extracted.
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Wed 16 Mar 2016, 23:46

Go buy a 1/2" micrometer type torque wrench from Harbor Freight. I've checked the two (1/2" and 1/4") HF torque wrenches I bought and found them to be well within ten percent calibration and very good repeatability. An alternative that works if you have a fishing type scale is to make up a cheater for a ratchet wrench. A piece of pipe slipped over the handle that gave a length of four feet from the wrench pivot point to the end of the pipe will yield 80ft/lbs of torque if you use the scale to pull 20lbs on the end of the cheater. Accurate, but more bother than just buying a torque wrench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-239.html
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Art
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:59

If you have Auto Zone there, you don't even need to buy a torque wrench (although you should) they have them in the Loner Tool program
You pay a deposit, use the tool, return the tool, get the deposit back
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 18 Mar 2016, 15:10

The torque wrenches at Harbor Freight are only $11.99 or so. I bought all three. The 1/2" 3/8" and 1/4" just for the heck of it. Can't have too many tools ya know... I must have gotten mine when they were on sale. Sales are a good thing.
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CnR
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Fri 18 Mar 2016, 16:42

A friend let me borrow his. I took all of your advice guys lol.

Thank you!
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 19 Mar 2016, 13:16

Just for information sake Harbor Freight is having a sale and the torque wrenches are only $9.99 and you can order them online. Scroll down about 1/2 way to see them. They are on the right side.

Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/zc3pblj
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 19 Mar 2016, 13:37

I bought an electric torque wrench that cost about $30 and it torques to 90 fl lbs.  All the times I inspected or replaced my belt I never used a torque wrench but just used this.  The variator is supposed to be torqued to 78 ft/lbs and I never had any trouble with my SWing.  I have to say this as a side note....even though I really like my CTX700 I wish I could have 2 bikes.  I really do miss my SWing and always coming on this forum makes it harder on me.  I thought the SWing was a great highway bike.  Maybe one day.....
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PostSubject: Re: Belt Drive Change   Sat 19 Mar 2016, 16:03

I agree, I'm down to one bike. I sold my K1100LT because my knees wouldn't allow me to ride more than an hour before I had to get off. The 650GT is a lot easier on my knees so I can still ride but I'll be having knee replacements this fall and probably will be able to ride a bike like the LT again. Makes me real sorry I sold it. The bike was a museum piece, 20 years old in like new condition with 12,000 miles on it. A real gem. If the surgery works as hoped I'll be looking for another bike to go with the GT. Might be another SW, I'm getting pretty used to these maxis. A nice late model SW with ABS, that would be hard to turn down. Two scooters have to be better than one. Then I could have one without a top box and one with.
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