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 ABS Light problem

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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: ABS Light problem   Sun 01 Nov 2015, 10:59

On my 2005, with a weak battery (but holding its own after a good charge) -- and a new one standing by at the ready..... the ABS light stayed on until I shut the bike down and restarted it.

In detail: Not expecting to go riding because I didn't expect it to start (bad batter story ....) but it did start,  so I let it run while I got into my riding gear and prepared for a short ride.

After a short while, by which time the ABS light should have been off, it was still burning brightly.  I continued riding abound the neighborhood expecting it to go out ... nope !! The brakes seemed to function normally so I went farther and when I felt I had given the battery enough charging I returned home ( maybe after only 10kms) -- ABS light was still on.

I shut her down waited a short time - a couple of minutes at most - and restarted the bike.  It started better than expected and better than the first time today (weak battery story) so off I went again but this time the light went out in about the right time.  Maybe dirt on the sensor ?  Don't know.  So off for another 10 to 15 kms with a stop for gas - since the starting was better I hoped it would start after refueling ... which it did.   Once reaching home and rested it in the off state for a couple of minutes before restarting, the ABS light went off in the more normal manner this time after re-starting.

Has anyone else experienced this anomaly ?  Anyone have any suggestions as to why this may have happened?  To be honest I didn't look for a problem ... it is functioning properly now (I think).

Thanks,

Mike
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bicyclenut
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Sun 01 Nov 2015, 11:43

Not sure about motorcycles, but with autos you need to have a minimum voltage, above 12v and usually around 12.5v for electrical components to function properly. You will frequently see all sorts of odd electrical problems with cars if the voltage is low, especially computer components (ABS, PCM).  I would make sure you have a good battery before doing any other diagnosis. Also not sure if there needs to be a reset after a fault was detected, on a car this is done with a scanner or a certain number of key cycles. Again, not very familiar with motorcycle systems, but probably similar to autos.
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PostSubject: ABS Light problem Today at 11:59 am    Sun 01 Nov 2015, 13:25

Hello Mike
For piece of mind your S/W ABS brakes will work normal with the ABS light on providing there are no known major mechanical problems.
The early systems mainly used flow charts and required a basic meter and a lot of jumping connections for diagnostics. Thanks goodness the S/W does not have a history of ABS problems.Keep the charging system current and you might want to change the brake fluid just as you would on any ABS vehicle in the not to distant future.  Howard


Last edited by NWSSC on Mon 02 Nov 2015, 11:10; edited 1 time in total
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Sun 01 Nov 2015, 18:50

Thanks to bicycle nut and to Howard.

While I prepared for the short ride, I left the bike running on the ctr. stand. Reading in the service manual, turning the rear wheel at high speed may induce the light still on situation. I don't think there was high speed wheel turning going on but ..... When this happens a speed of 30 kph is necessary before the light goes out - rather than the normal 10 kph. Anyway, I will check out the fluid level etc with a careful eye to the brakes. We will see if it becomes a new problem.

Mike
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oldgwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Mon 02 Nov 2015, 06:46

Anyway, I will check out the fluid level etc with a careful eye to the brakes.  We will see if it becomes a new problem.

I've been wrong before maybe again, that said I would do the brake system regardless unless that is you know it was changed in the last two years. Changing all fluids was my first priority when I purchased my 05.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Mon 02 Nov 2015, 19:08

Wise advice you offer, oldgwingguy ! Thank you.

I've had my 05 for just 2 years and really don't know how well the previous owner cared for it. The first thing I checked was the anti-freeze status of the radiator as it was to be stored in unheated storage that winter. Other than that I've only changed the oil a couple of times, changed the spark plugs and gave it new rubber this spring, and have a new battery standing by now. I've cleaned the air filter but have a new one in transit. Had an MVI done by the dealer in September. As I say, probably quite wise advice to change the brake fluid. Winter storage may have brought about unexpected condensation.

Thanks,
Mike
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Tue 03 Nov 2015, 23:42

It's not unusual for the ABS light to come on if the bike is on the center stand. The ABS system compares the speed of both wheels and when there's a difference outside it's tolerance the light will come on. With the front wheel stopped and the rear wheel spinning it's likely to upset the ABS.
Also as already mentioned low voltage will make it unhappy as well. The alternator on the bike doesn't put out much voltage until the engine is running around 3,000 rpm. So if the engine isn't running a good bit faster than that to charge the battery and keep the voltage up there might be an alarm from the ABS as well.
I really suspect the problem with this bike is that it needs a new battery.
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Wed 04 Nov 2015, 03:15

Hi Mike,
My personal, non-technical opinion is that the front wheel sensor must have been having a difficulty of some sort; dirty, loose, etc. Maybe the ride made the problem disappear for some reason. My '05 with ABS has never been a problem. When I take off, the lite goes off quickly at about three or four MPH. Running the bike on the center stand has no affect on my ABS no matter what speed it is running and the lite is on at all times. Don't know exactly how the system works but thought it was singularily thru the front wheel sensor ring and the sensor (thus the lite is always on if running on the center stand). Just wanted to throw my small bit of info into the mix. Good Luck.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Wed 04 Nov 2015, 19:17

Thanks to Paul and DickO !

I had the bike for a short ride today and always "take the long way home" so the ride became a little longer. No problems with the ABS light at all and had even forgotten about it. Knowing I'd be heading out early this morning I plugged in the trickle charger last night. Unfortunately it was a cold night and leaving the battery in the bike in the shed with the charger had little affect. This morning it failed to start the bike. So I pulled the old and installed the new battery (which was inside the house). It started as quickly as a light comes on when a switch is thrown. So I'm in agreement with you Paul ... what she needs is a new battery. I put the old on a 2 amp charger in my basement but before doing this I checked the voltage. 15.4v !!! Seems a bit high for a dead battery that failed to start the Silverwing. I'll try the old one next time out when fresh off the charger. Just not enough cranking amps left in it I expect. Remember ... it may be 10 years old.

Both of you have helped explain the ABS to me, -- thanks. Whatever the ABS problem was ... it seems solved for now, at least. I may have confused the system if it is based on a comparison of front and rear wheel speeds.

Mike
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Wed 04 Nov 2015, 22:31

Battery voltage at the terminals doesn't really tell the tale. A tired battery can show pretty normal voltage with no load other than a voltmeter but when you put a load on the battery the voltage will drop precipitously due to increased internal resistance. Old lead/acid batterys tend to build up debris in the bottom and can bridge cell plates which tends to discharge the cell(s) even when there's no load on the battery at all.
To know the condition of a battery it needs to be given a load test. Most battery stores can do that test for little or free.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 06 Nov 2015, 16:51

Thanks again Paul !

Good info. I'll seek out a load test for the battery and learn its condition for certain ... but I think we know the answer to that question now. The new battery fired up the bike with simplicity and gusto.

Mike
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bicyclenut
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 06 Nov 2015, 17:34

Find someone who has an old VAT-40 and they can do a load test on it or many shops and maybe even parts store will do a conductance test with a Midtronics or similar unit for free.

Depending on age and more importantly, previous battery maintenance and care, the battery is probably due to be replaced.  Typical lead acid batteries are designed to remain near full charge most of their life and too many cycles of high drain and recharge will destroy a typical lead acid battery. Permanent sulfation will occur and the battery will be ruined if too many deep charge/discharge cycles occur. There are batteries designed for this (deep cycle batteries) but your typical car/motorcycle lead acid battery is not.  This is also why it is so critical to keep a trickle charge, like a battery tender on a battery that will not be used for long periods of time, so it doesn't suffer too many "deep cycle" discharges.  Also, due to the internal chemical reaction that occurs, the battery can freeze more easily in a deep discharged state.

Not a battery engineer, so sorry if the terminology and details are simplified
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 06 Nov 2015, 21:02

Don't apologize for keeping it simple, bicyclenut. The simpler, the better. Thanks for this info. I've learned a lot through the replies to my question. Thanks again !

Mike
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oldgwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 06 Nov 2015, 21:13

It's none of the above for type of usage but it is lead acid wet cell, the instructions were charge after every usage be it 100 feet or a all day run on the golf cart. When I put the scooter mower tractor truck away it goes on a battery maintainer. I have a portable Battery Bug that I use on the different batteries to determine % of life left, a handy tool as the batteries get older.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 06 Nov 2015, 21:35

I rarely put my bikes on a battery tender. I have one but with a good battery and year 'round riding the battey stays up well. If a battery begins to need a tender for short layups it's usually time to replace it anyway.
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bicyclenut
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Sat 07 Nov 2015, 22:21

exavid wrote:
I rarely put my bikes on a battery tender. I have one but with a good battery and year 'round riding the battey stays up well. If a battery begins to need a tender for short layups it's usually time to replace it anyway.

If you ride year round and don't let bike sit without use you shouldn't need a battery tender, that is correct.  Just like most people who drive cars year round. The battery tender is for the bikes (or cars) that get stored for weeks (modern cars usually more than 2 weeks with the drain from the ECM, clock, etc) and bikes would probably be similar.

Pretty much here we are at the end of the riding season.  May get some lucky days of good weather here or there, but with cold temperatures, snow/ice, short days with darkness and deer may not get to ride the scooter again until March or so. I remember some 50-60 degree days in the middle of winter, so always want to be prepared to take advantage of these and have bike ready to start.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Sat 07 Nov 2015, 23:42

We are blessed here with being able to ride year 'round with only a few days a month in the winter that's not good for riding.
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okcseoul
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 09 Sep 2016, 01:08

I have an ABS light problem (the light stays on). I'm in Seoul, SK and I have a 2006 SW (35,000 kilometers). I have been riding this same bike for eight years. The bike was repaired after an accident. The battery was replaced as well. The ABS light will not go off. The fuse was replaced, but I often see that the new one breaks again. The front wheel has been cleaned and the sensor has been checked. The repair shop has spent time checking and time worrying about it as well, still without a solution. It feels like the ABS works properly even with the light on except once the back wheel locked up and slid (scared me). Any advice?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 09 Sep 2016, 05:30

Did they clean the sector ring & check the sensor on the rear wheel as well as the front ?
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: ABS Light problem   Fri 09 Sep 2016, 18:39

An unexpected rear wheel lock up and side would scare anyone okcseoul. Repeated fuse failures indicates some sort of electrical problem - short circuit. Once I replaced my battery my ABS problems (and slow idle issues) vanished. But you already have a new battery. Always look for the simplest cures before digging deeper. Hope you find the problem soon. Also hope you will let us know what caused the lock up when the reason is found.

Mike
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