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 Start on side stand

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oltxredneck
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PostSubject: Start on side stand   Wed 21 Oct 2015, 16:04

On occasion I find the need and convenience to start the Swing on its side stand after a short trip or having stopped for a short while. However, their is a circuit that prevents starting while on the side stand. Is there any way to circumvent this?
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Wed 21 Oct 2015, 17:01

Hi, if you search for " side stand switch" you will find all sorts of information and comments about exactly this topic.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Wed 21 Oct 2015, 17:52

oltxredneck wrote:
On occasion I find the need and convenience to start the Swing on its side stand after a short trip or having stopped for a short while. However, their is a circuit that prevents starting while on the side stand. Is there any way to circumvent this?
Jeez, didn't we just ave this discussion a couple of weeks ago?

Like Gremlin said, 'use the search box' (above, left).

Tim
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Start on side stand    Wed 21 Oct 2015, 23:01

Deja Vu    Howard chickendance
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 04:43

NWSSC wrote:
Deja Vu

Déjà Vu? I had that gramophone record album recorded by Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young way back in 1970.  Smile
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 08:07

Start/run on side stand=stupid in my book. Remember bike I always in Gear!
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 08:33

john grinsel wrote:
Start/run on side stand=stupid in my book.  Remember bike I always in Gear!


I agree. Although annoying this was installed as a safety feature so Honda does not get their a*s sued off. If you want to defeat it that is your call, but I think this forum should not offer any hints as to how to do this or our liability may come into question. My two cents.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 09:02

If you did bypass and had an accident with the bike, your insurance company would have the perfect excuse to deny any claims; however remotely connected to the bypass. My 86 Helix can be started on the sidestand: I have all winter to figure out if it came from the factory that way or if it was tinkered with. I'd prefer to have the sidestand safety feature.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 09:46

I thought we put this debate "to bed" a couple of weeks ago. I explained then how I had done it . If you do not want to do it don't.. I would advise anyone  not to start a bike whilst on it's sidestand I never have, and never would.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 17:13

This is sure to fan the flames of controversy. Here's a link to Trouble1100's post from July 2010 for a How To use your Parking Brake to bypass the Side Stand switch:


http://www.silverwing600.com/t8758-use-your-parking-brake-to-bypass-side-stand-switch?highlight=use+your+parking+brake

Tim
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trouble1100
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Thu 22 Oct 2015, 23:35

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
This is sure to fan the flames of controversy. Here's a link to Trouble1100's post from July 2010 for a How To use your Parking Brake to bypass the Side Stand switch:


http://www.silverwing600.com/t8758-use-your-parking-brake-to-bypass-side-stand-switch?highlight=use+your+parking+brake

Tim

An update to my original 2010 post ..... My old Silverwing was a 2006 with the old body colored cubby lids. On the <2006 design it was impossible to access the parking brake light switch without removing the front faring. We now own a 2009 with the newer textured black cubby lids (2007>) and along with the new design the parking brake light switch can be accessed with the right pocket removed. If you want to do this bypass on a 2007> tap in to the lamp side of the switch and run the conductor back to the starter relay as in my previous post.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Fri 23 Oct 2015, 09:04

Ron

Am I correct in assuming that with this mod the PB must be set before the Sidestand is deployed, and that if the Sidestand is deployed first that the engine will stop?

Thanks so much for your original post.

Tim
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Fri 23 Oct 2015, 10:57

That's the way I understand it Cosmic.
The parking brake provides the ground when the side stand is down so as long as the parking brake is set before the stand is lowered and released after the stand is raised the engine should keep going.

I am assuming that this earth to the relay also allows the engine to keep running via the ecu.

In order to start and run the engine with the bike on the side stand the parking brake would just need to be set.
Then you would just flip up the stand, release the brake and away.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Fri 23 Oct 2015, 13:31

Isn't what I did simpler? Take the two bolts off that hold the rear passenger footrest on, behind here you will find the connecter for the cut out. Pull the connecter apart and put a spade connecter on the "live" side, tape this up and secure to the frame. The other side that leads to the sidestand is taped up and likewise secured to the frame. This can be reconnected at any time. This was suggested by Dennis B years ago. I did it on my last Silverwing,and when I traded it in, it took about 10 minutes to reconnect. Smile
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trouble1100
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Fri 23 Oct 2015, 19:46

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Ron

Am I correct in assuming that with this mod the PB must be set before the Sidestand is deployed, and that if the Sidestand is deployed first that the engine will stop?

Thanks so much for your original post.

Tim

With this mod, the parking brake is what keeps the relay grounded. As long as the relay is grounded, the bike will continue to run.  As soon as you release the PB, even if on the side stand, the bike will stop and will not start until the relay is grounded via the side stand switch closed (up) or parking brake on (indicator light switch closed) .... Fail safe!

On a side note, I tried to edit my original post to add the 2007 up procedure and found the post was locked.


Last edited by trouble1100 on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 20:04; edited 1 time in total
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trouble1100
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Fri 23 Oct 2015, 19:54

Cookie wrote:
That's the way I understand it Cosmic.
The parking brake provides the ground when the side stand is down so as long as the parking brake is set before the stand is lowered and released after the stand is raised the engine should keep going.

I am assuming that this earth to the relay also allows the engine to keep running via the ecu.

In order to start and run the engine with the bike on the side stand the parking brake would just need to be set.
Then you would just flip up the stand, release the brake and away.

Cookie ..... That is correct
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sat 24 Oct 2015, 03:04

Old Limey wrote:
Isn't what I did simpler? Take the two bolts off that hold the rear passenger footrest on, behind here you will find the connecter for the cut out. Pull the connecter apart and put a spade connecter on the "live" side, tape this up and secure to the frame. The other side that leads to the sidestand is taped up and likewise secured to the frame. This can be reconnected at any time. This was suggested by Dennis B years ago. I did it on my last Silverwing,and when I traded it in, it took about 10 minutes to reconnect. Smile

Yes, that way is simpler Old Limey but you could accidentally ride off with the side stand down.
This way you would have to have the parking brake on which, hopefully, you would notice before you've gone very far.
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sat 24 Oct 2015, 03:10

trouble1100 wrote:

Cookie ..... That is correct

Thanks Trouble1100. I might give this a go. It'd be useful to be able to leave the engine running while I close the garage door without having to keep heaving the beast on and off the main stand.
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sun 25 Oct 2015, 02:52

When I park my SWing I always use the parking brake. When I get ready to go I put the side stand up and start it. The parking brake holds me steady until I release it. But then that's just the way I do it.
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vmaximus
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PostSubject: Start on side stand   Sun 25 Oct 2015, 05:38

Cookie what's wrong with putting you scoot on the side stand and switching the engine off before you close the garage door if that's all you want to dis engage the s/stand switch for, that way you cannot drive of with the side stand down. I personally would not dream of doing this mod, simply because I have a small electric scooter and I even forget to put this one up let alone a beast of a Silverwing. This mod is not for me but it is your choice.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sun 25 Oct 2015, 05:50

I don't get this deliberately disabling a safety feature like the side stand cut out switch for a few seconds convenience. Sooner or later someone who's done this will ride off with the side stand down, the least they'll get is a fright and their sphincter puckering up a bit when the side stand grounds, or worse they'll come to grief and do damage to their Silver Wing and themselves.

But of course they're not going to come on here and tell everyone that a grounded side stand was the reason they got dumped them on their arse are they. It'll be oil, diesel, stone chippings, an idiot car driver etc.

How do you explain to the Police or insurance company in a written statement what happened and why you came off? Can you honestly explain why the gouges in the road surface at the crash scene match up with the scraped bare metal of the side stand foot. Was a lowered side stand grounding the reason you crashed and how was this possible, especially as Honda like the majority of manufacturers have been fitting a safety cut out switch to the side stand of motorcycles and scooters for many years to prevent exactly this type of crash happening. How can you explain otherwise?

Maybe you'll be in your hospital bed when you get the letter from your insurers saying they have an inspection report showing that your side stand cut out switch had been deliberately disabled and you'd failed to mention that in any questions and written statements. It was obvious to them that the stand digging into the road had indeed caused your crash, and as you'd been economical with the truth knowing all along this was the real cause of your crash and self inflicted, your insurance is now invalid.


Last edited by Meldrew on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 07:32; edited 1 time in total
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sun 25 Oct 2015, 06:31

vmaximus wrote:
Cookie what's wrong with putting you scoot on the side stand and switching the engine off before you close the garage door if that's all you want to dis engage the s/stand switch for, that way you cannot drive of with the side stand down. I personally would not dream of doing this mod, simply because I have a small electric scooter and I even forget to put this one up let alone a beast of a Silverwing. This mod is not for me but it is your choice.

But wouldn't you notice riding off with the parking brake on? Providing it's on properly of course - not just a couple of clicks.

I've only ever tried to ride off with it on once and I noticed that something was weird straight away. Releasing the brake would stop the engine straight away if the stand was down.

It just seems like a safer way of doing it rather than simply disabling the side stand switch.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Sun 25 Oct 2015, 22:11

Cookie wrote:


But wouldn't you notice riding off with the parking brake on? Providing it's on properly of course - not just a couple of clicks.

I dunno, I've ridden off 6 or 8 times with my parking brake still ON. Usually after having been stopped for a few moments while on the entrance ramp of a high speed freeway where I have to merge quickly. I've that so many times that I've actually considered adding a buzzer or beeper to sound when the PB light is ON while the ignition is ON.

Think of it as an eejit circuit.

The PB pads are not designed to stop the bike at speed, only to keep the scoot from slow speed roll. They are very easy overcome.

On the plus side of my experience; the odometer will not accumulate any mileage if you travel with the PB light ON.

Tim
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PostSubject: Start on side stand    Mon 26 Oct 2015, 00:39

Not quite the same but this whole decisions reminds of the safety  belt issue in the late sixties. You had to buckle up in order to start the vehicle and people where coming up with all sorts of ideas not to. Now if you start up and don't buckle up right away you feel your leaving with out something, because you are. My point is this. In this day and age you are never sure who will get a hold of something like this and where they are going to run with it.I guess what I'm trying to say is I do not think it is a good idea to broaden a safety issue like this. And right now, I'm looking for my old flack jacket(if it fits) because you never know where its going to come from. Howard
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Mon 26 Oct 2015, 06:22

Good points made by everybody here. I particularly liked the seatbelt analogy made by NWSSC, although we never had that in the UK (they just made wearing front seat belts compulsory in the early eighties).

I suppose the side stand only has to dig in once to cause a lot of damage even at low speed.

I think I'll leave mine as it is - I'd have probably never got around to doing the mod anyway!



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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Start on side stand   Mon 26 Oct 2015, 09:43

Enuf said. Topic locked

Tim
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