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 Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?

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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 13:03

Hello

I have been splashing out a bit of money on the Wang to hopefully get it rolling more smoothly and efficiently.

The new belt and rollers give a huge tick to the smoothness and power.

I got Honda to overhaul the rear brake - stops brilliantly, no sponginess.

But fuel efficiency still rubbish. I'm getting 190km to a tank (118 miles old money).

My questions are:

1) I have an early (2001) model. I know the economy was bad but this is ridiculous. Am I right?

2) If the fuel pressure regulator is at fault, would I be able to test if the diaphragm is torn? My friendly mechanic said that if it was gone, I'd know about it.

If it is genuinely bad fuel consumption then I might need to sell it on and get a newer model. I love the bike but three fill ups to get me to London and back is ridiculous.

Thanks for your help

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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 14:21

Try bunging Iridium plugs in bud, mine (51 reg) was dire on fuel using standard plugs. Running motorways & keeping to 60 mph I got from Hildenborough (Kent) to Shirley (Birmingham) before the flashing block came on with Iridium fitted Smile
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 15:12

Thanks for that tip Bern, it can only help.
(The rear brake was dragging and I hoped that may have sorted it, but no.)

Do you find your fuel gauge a bit erratic? The first block on mine lasts about 55km (import, don't ask) then the second goes at about 65-70. After that I ignore it and hope it'll go longer than 170k until the flashing block.

I'm almost out of petrol so will go for a ride this weekend with a fuel can and find out what the ultimate kilometerage is on her. I'm getting a bit bored of filling up though. What mileage are you getting from a full tank now?

Like almost all questions on the internet, I want to know if I'm normal or not!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 15:20

Your miles per tank certaily does sound horrendous. I don't believe I've seen anything that bad ever reported. Some of that miight be explained by just how far you fill the tank. I fill my tank all the way up to the very edge and will usually get somewhere around 150-155 miles per fill. Twice though I have experienced 200 miles per tankful. However, anytime I ride on the Interstates (freeways) where the speeds are much higher (say averaging 70 mph) my fuel economy drops to between 140-150 per tank. Anytime you exceed 5000 rpm your fuel economy will drop significantly.

Given the age of your scoot I would change the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) anyway. The part is not that expensive (~$45USD) and it is very easy to install --especially if you are of the DIY persuasion. As Bern mentioned you might want to think about changing to Irridum plugs too. If you are having your work done by a shop then you should have them do a compression check before they change those plugs --too low compression will indicate that your engine is in need of a major overhaul-- and have the air adjustment screws on the fuel injection body balanced with a proper manometer as well.

Tim
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 18:17

The Kent to Brum' run was about 155 miles, I've not really taken a lot of notice since then Embarassed If I go from Telford to Barmouth (can't beat fish 'n chips at the seaside) the economy plummets, the twisty Welsh roads with their climbs & descents make it a thirsty beast, if you are in the Black Hills it will use significantly more than if you are on the coastline.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 19 Feb 2015, 18:40

The only time I've gotten that bad was when my air filter was filthy. One time I put 218 miles on my 08 Wing and still had almost a quart left. One time I ran out on my 07 with less than 190 miles. So I think something is wrong if you're only getting 118 miles on a tank full. How much does it take to fill up when you fill up after that 118 miles? It usually will use one gallon when the first bar disappears and about a quart for every bar after that until you get to the last one. When it starts blinking you have almost a gallon left till you run out. If you look at your mileage when the first bar goes out that is about what your mileage is going to be.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Fri 20 Feb 2015, 07:52

Something is definitely not right. Granted I have a 2012 but I seldom get under 50 MPG (US). Getting 200 miles per tank is not hard for mine. I have several tanks over 60 MPG and average in the mid 50's. I do have a K&N air filter and iridium plugs but don't recall them making a big difference. As low as your is seems like something might be dragging, brake, parking brake etc.? Good luck and keep us posted with what you find.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Fri 20 Feb 2015, 14:45

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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 07:20

Iridium plugs arrived today, will pop those in and check compression while I'm at it.

Did take her out this morning to find the range to empty and got to 220km / 136 miles. So the flashing block is similar to the first block. It has to be said that tankful was all motorway driving at 80-odd mph (6000+ rpm).

There's nothing dragging - that's all been seen to. Air and sparks all new. I'm tempted to change the regulator although it's no longer a cheap part - looks about £70 whether from David Silver, the Netherlands or US.

I'll keep you posted
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 09:06

I remember reading the article in an old issue of Twist&Go magazine after the European launch of the Silver Wing in 2001 where a group of British bike journo's rode Silver Wings back to the UK. They travelled a lot on motorways and autobahns and they noted straight away it was a thirsty beast, going from full to empty tank in about 130 miles or so and reported this all their articles.

Those press reports more or less stigmatised the Silver Wing straight away as thirsty and certainly put me off buying one for years. You may have a problem with your fuel regulator or simply a 2001 Silver Wing that isn't as fuel efficient as the 2008 onwards models. I've read similar bike mag letters and forum posts all complaining about the fuel consumption of the early Silver Wings.


Last edited by Meldrew on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 12:12; edited 2 times in total
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 10:51

My 09 SW Gives me 57 to 62 mpg from 60 t0 70 mph with my Trigg trike installed and 64 to 72 mpg without the trike kit installed. My 750 shadow would get in the low 50 to 55 mpg. I don't care how much fuel my SW goes through ,the SW is the MC I put more miles in a year then any other bike I have owned , I have more time to ride since my retirement 15 years ago. Smile Smile
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 14:19

I always carry a little container with me due to the fact that I get such good gas mileage that sometimes I have to stop and let fuel out. :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 15:07

Your Vsrtom or ( Bandid) should get better fuel milage then your Swing.My son's Vstrom and his 600 Bandid would get better gas milage then my Swing,when we ride together. disbelief
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 17:31

gilesmdavis wrote:
Did take her out this morning to find the range to empty and got to 220km / 136 miles. So the flashing block is similar to the first block. It has to be said that tankful was all motorway driving at 80-odd mph (6000+ rpm).

As I asked in my post above "How much does it take to fill up when you fill up after that 118 miles?" But I'll ask again how much does it take to fill up when you fill up after that 136 miles?
Also if you're riding at 80-odd mph 6,000+ RPMs you're going to get the worst mileage possible with the Silverwing. When your go over 5,000 RPMs the mileage goes downhill fast.
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 17:51

Tinman I have never checked out the Bandits mileage but I'm thinking it is better than the swing. The family cager gets 19mpg so if a bike gets 20mpg I'm happy.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sat 21 Feb 2015, 22:55

FWIW, I have an '07 and '12 in the family. Both get identical mileage - even without the O2 sensor, the '07 gets mid-50s. Only performance mods were slightly lighter (compared to stock) Dr. Pulley sliders. This is at Denver altitude, highway speed (65MPH-75MPH or so).

Something is wrong with the OP's bike. There isn't any fuel mileage changes between '01 and '07, and the '08 change is pretty much insignificant (I believe the O2 and ECM changes to mainly impact idle).

I am wondering what RPMs the OP is getting at say 60 MPH. That could probably tell a lot.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sun 22 Feb 2015, 04:04


What windscreen do you have fitted ? Mine came with a Givi touring one, I cut 5inches off the top which seemed to help reduce fuel consumption.
Other than top speed, hard acceleration will also see the fuel gauge drop like a brick in a mineshaft.
Try filling it up & riding a tankfull keeping below 5000 rpm & using gentle - moderate acceleration.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Sun 22 Feb 2015, 07:29

I would check the driven clutch for any groves,I had to replace mine at 30k kl. It made a difference on mine and at the same time I installed Dr pulley 24 gram sliders to lower top end rpm's .The rollers had a flat spot that stopped the driven clutch to fully engage.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Mon 23 Feb 2015, 07:11

Hello again.

So to answer some of the questions.

Model28a once I'd run out of gas I put a bit in, then filled her up at the station. Definitely getting close to 16 litres in there. Which makes it around 14km/l or 32 mpg.

Point taken about the revs jmaslak I'll investigate the 5000rpm speed and also allow a good length of time for my next trip, to take it easy and see if things improve.

thebern I've got the mildly hopeless original Honda screen. It manages to channel rain over the top and onto my visor and be really noisy. If I stick with the bike (and I do love it) then I think I'll go for the Givi - if only to get a bit of hand protection. Even with heated grips it's a bit chilly in the wind.

tinman I've got lovely new Honda rollers and belt in, which I'm hoping added to my new, calmer riding style, might help with the fuel consumption. Definitely has made an impact to the smoothness - a number of rattles have gone away.

Last but not least meldrew I'm afraid you might be right. I was aware of this and bought the bike as it had an 03 plate.Turns out it was an 01 import registered in 03. Full datacheck didn't highlight that. Caveat emptor but I'd nevewr have thought to check the frame number when I viewed it. Might do next time.

Thanks for all your inputs. I'll be out on it this week and will endeavour to do a 150 mile run without needing to fill up.

Compared to my old Deauville (220 miles a tank at a fair pace) it's almost inconceivable to me that a Honda would perform like this...
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Mon 23 Feb 2015, 07:21

The Bern wrote:


Try filling it up & riding a tankfull keeping below 5000 rpm & using gentle - moderate acceleration.
Emphasis on "try". That weak spring on the throttle makes it so hard to slow down. Laughing
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Mon 23 Feb 2015, 08:20

Laughing indeed it does Smile

Giles, during the week (can't do it today as am repairing wife's car) I will go for a ride out & note rev's on mine at 30, 40, 50, 60 & 70 mph on the same stretch of road & post here so you can compare results, should give an indication if the clutch is biting properly on yours.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Mon 23 Feb 2015, 08:24

Thanks for that, I'll do the same - it's cold and sleeting here today, hopefully will improve in the week.

Been reading up about the fuel pressure regulator - the symptoms don't sound like that.

Also thought I might contact Honda to get their view about it. Might be interesting
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Mon 23 Feb 2015, 22:36

Giles Ok now I understand. Frequently people refer to the blinking gauge as empty and they still have more left than they realize. Yes if you are running the tank dry then yes you're definitely using 16 litres.
I'll be interested to hear what your mileage is if you can stay under 5,000 RPM for a tank. The oldest Silverwing anyone I ride with has is a 2003 so I really don't have any experience or knowledge of the normal mileage of a 2001. I do hope you can figure out how to improve your mileage, good luck.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Tue 24 Feb 2015, 10:59

Ok, beautiful lunchtime in South Wales so took her out for a "spin".

Using sat nav and RPM gauge (with six increments, shat's that about?) I scored the following

3000 rpm = 28mph
4000 rpm = 46mph
5000 rpm = 60mph
6000 rpm = 72 mph

Or

40mph = 3700 rpm
50mph = 4300rpm (ish)
60mph = 5000 rpm
70mph = 5600 rpm
80mph = 6600 rpm

I guess I have been doing motorways around the 6-7000 rpm range.

So tomorrow I shall head to London, fill up again near the end then return at a leisurely 5000rpm. (Which I tried just now and I felt I could walk quicker. I'll take a chill pill.) If I continue at the same pace I should get a best case tank range.

I'm also in email comms with Honda Europe to see if they can verify the fuel consumption issue in 2001.

I'll let you know.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Wed 25 Feb 2015, 17:07

For those of you still awake I have the answer. Silver wings are not meant to be driven at speed on motorways unless they are very short motorways.

I did a lot of riding today, as best I could all at or under 5000rpm. It was a revelation.

My previous experience - that led to this post - was of getting 220km to a tank (=136 miles /3.5 gallon tank) = 39mpg

Today I managed one less fuel stop (woo hoo) and returned 53mpg out and 56mpg back.

bounce

Both had small amounts of speedier/ slow traffic driving so 60mpg could be possible on a long journey with no delays. This was at 5000rpm and with iridium plugs.

It has made me love the Wing all the more.

Thanks for the advice and guidance. I'm thinking of starting a 5000rpm club - the easy riders, or slow coaches or something.

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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Wed 25 Feb 2015, 20:25

applause cheers yep 5,000 and below and avoiding stop and go traffic is the secret for the best mileage. I'm glad to hear that your scooter doesn't have a problem other than a weak return spring on the throttle. Razz
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 26 Feb 2015, 04:33

YAY, that's excellent Giles Smile pretty much tallies with my long run for speed, revs & consumption Cool
Another fuel saving tip is to memorize revs for 20, 30 & 40 mph, then when pulling away from traffic lights, etc go to those revs & no higher, it only takes a moment or two to achieve the limit but saves loads of wasted fuel from over revving & then dropping back down.

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 26 Feb 2015, 06:50

In contrast I looked up some of the fuel readings I noted down doing long motorway stints when I was away in Germany last September. This includes the flat sections in Holland and Belgium, the hilly German autobahn stretches ascending up to Kassel and Göttingen, overtaking long lines of slower moving trucks, and a downright boring 90 mile section that I just wanted to cover so I could stop and have a nice long meal break.

Trip 154.4 miles 11.05 litres/2.43 gal (Imp) 63.53 mpg Trip 159.4 miles 10.68 litres/2.34 gal 68.11 mpg

Trip 160.3 10.46 litres/2.30 gal 69.9 mpg Trip 171.2 miles 12.60 litres/2.77 gal 61.80 mpg

Trip 174.6 12.04 litres/2.64 gal 66.18 mpg. Trip 177.3 miles 12.70 litres/2.73 gal 63.54 mpg

That's just in normal relaxed motorway/autobahn touring mode on my 2010 Silver Wing, the figures are pretty much the same carrying Mrs M as passenger and I've had the trip meter over 180 miles quite a few times without any drama.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator - does it need changing?   Thu 26 Feb 2015, 07:31

Nice one bud Smile Goes to show that the newer models really are better on fuel, an extra 5-12 mpg is a worthwhile saving especially for long distance touring Cool
For the miles I do a year it would not be financially sensible for me to change Sad
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