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 Update on Belt or Clutch slipping

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Jim L
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PostSubject: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:50 pm

Well I did the tear down today, and luckily the bearings were good, but the clutch pads were a little glazed again, and the clutch outer was definitely shiny smooth. So I decided to make a video to put on Youtube, so you can check it out there and see what I'm talking about. Let me know what you think. https://youtu.be/YQ3jsgDsVXE
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hardee41
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:28 pm

Thanks Jim; good video.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:50 am

applause Jim thank you for making this video and posting a link to it. You've been here less than a week and already you're posting videos to help everyone. That's what makes this forum so great, people doing what they can to help others learn how to fix their own scooters without having to pay someone else to do it for them.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:17 am

Jim L ,nice video, but I think you miss greasing one small roller bearing that sit's inside the clutch shaft pass the needle bearing at the far end behind the nut that holds the clutch to the bell shaft.The roller and the needle bearing are only in play at idling speeds.these bearings do no rotate when the Swing is in motion.That job goes to the seal bearing inside the outer casing to keep the clutch lined up.
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:45 pm

I got that bearing too, I just used a long rod and forced the grease into the bearing while turning it.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:38 pm

Good Man, I wasent sure you had that grease.I notice the bluing on the clutch bell . It is possible that deglazing by revving the motor with the hand brake on could have cause the bluing on the belland over heating it.I would think that over time ,the bell may start to warp and cause a shuddering effect and transfer heat to the oil causing a possible seal failure. ( IMO ) I would stick to a peace of emery cloth to keep thing's cool..
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:33 pm

That's the thing about buying something used, you don't know what the last guy did to it. I did notice that when I spun the rear wheel to see if the clutch outer was warped, there was a very slight wobble (like around .050) not a big deal but I will replace it in the future. I will probably change the clutch outer and put one of those Hit clutches in.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:01 am

It's not likely that your clutch bell will warp to that extent and I don't think that the bell is part of the Hit clutch. I would be more concern about the driven clutch to make a grove,That causes the V light to come on constantly.I had to change mine at 30 k kl. Now my V light comes on at the recommended 16 k miles of belt ware. You video shows that your Swing is running the way it should. For quicker acceleration ,24 gram Dr pulley slider is a good up grade to the OEM rollers.
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:45 am

No, I don't think the bell is part of the hit clutch either, but I figure if I replaced the clutch I would replace the bell also. I may try the Dr pulley sliders in the future.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:16 pm

No ware has there been a failure of the clutch bell on this forum,and there are Swing with over 200 k miles and still working.Swing's are one of the best  scooters out there.If it's not broken,don't fix it. I am more concern of my health failing than my Swing .LOL Smile
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:29 pm

You are correct, Jim, the Clutch Bell is not part of the HIT kit.

Re Tinman's comment that there have been no reported Clutch Bell failures; I believe that there have been three reports or Clutch Bells being replaced. One of which was my own when my, then first generaltion HIT clutch shoes wore out and severely scored the bell. I replaced that original HIT Clutch with the 2nd generation HIT along with a new OEM Clutch Bell and, 50 or 60,000 miles later they are still going strong. Dr Pulley has since come out with a 3rd generation HIT kit.

The above said, I am about to do a belt change an
d will check the HIT clutch shoes for wear when I pull the Driven Pulley to lube the needle & roller bearings. And will report any problems I find.

Having been a test mule for the HIT Clutch I am still very positive on their products --especially the Sliders.

Other than being the first kid on the block to buy their HIT Clutch I have no connection with Dr Pulley or Union Material Ltd --and I have always paid full price for the stuff I've gotten from them.

Tim
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:54 pm

Jim L wrote:
That's the thing about buying something used, you don't know what the last guy did to it. I did notice that when I spun the rear wheel to see if the clutch outer was warped, there was a very slight wobble (like around .050) not a big deal but I will replace it in the future. I will probably change the clutch outer and put one of those Hit clutches in.

My suggestion is to try the Sliders first. They are the cheapest and easiest and most effective power upgrade you can do (yes, I know it doesn't really affect the power output, but I don't know what else to call it).

If you really want a HiT clutch, and you would consider a used one, PM me. I put one on and used it for about 13 months, then went back to the original for reasons I can no longer recall. Nothing wrong with it, but after I went back to the stock one I haven't felt like disassembling things again to reinstall it. It does hook up a bit more securely than stock, especially when at middle speeds and at takeoff. Takeoffs can bump if you twist the throttle hard. I did not find it to be a dramatic difference compared to stock. A bell is not included with the HiT clutch.

Thanks for helping out on the forum.
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:02 pm

Thanks Buddy, I probably won't be ready for the clutch until the middle of spring. Have to wait till business picks up a little. I do want to put the Hit clutch on asap, cause the squeal has started a little bit again. If I rev it up with the brake on it goes away for a while. Annoys the crap out of me.
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Tourezrick
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:54 pm

Good video! Thanks for taking the time!
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:49 pm

your welcome
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Donie
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PostSubject: V Light Coming On   Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:52 am

Hello Tinman,

You mentioned earlier in this thread that the V Light coming on can be attributed to something not right, perhaps a groove in the clutch outer drum.

My V Light comes on around 60-70MPH especially if I use a spurt of acceleration in that speed area.

I had bought a new belt,(not yet fitted) thinking that it was the problem, but on reading your post I believe perhaps that something more sinister may be the real culprit.

There's about 50K on the Swing 2008 ABS and the previous owner did tell me that clutch big spring retainer had come adrift at one time, and the spring had worn it's way through the outer casing(s), bringing him to a stop on the roadside.

He said he replaced ALL, but I'm not sure what all actually meant.

What should I look for when I dismantle?

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:46 pm

Is not the V light related to miles ridden? and is no indicator of belt/clutch Condition?

I change belts (OEM) every 20,000 miles, in now near 400,000 rubber band drive scooter miles have never walked---one broken belt underway---Helix, had spare belt, easy roadside change with that model.

I elect is to leave everything stock and enjoy the ride-----get another bike if I am unhappy with performance. cheaper!
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Donie
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:29 am

Although the V Light is designed primarily to come on at predetermined mileage intervals, it must also be linked to slippage.

If I reset the light before a journey it will still come on if I accelerate hard above 60-70mph, if I stay steadily below 70 it won't come on at all.

I feel sure that it's indicating either slippage, or some grooving on the pulleys.

This may not be surprising considering the mileage on the bike.

I wouldn't consider changing the Swing just because it needs some mechanical work, after all that's part of the enjoyment in getting to know the machine.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:31 am

My Swing V light started giving me problem at about 30 k kl .I ride my Swing at a constant HW speed 95% of the time and I believe that made a small groves on both sides of the drive clutch. My replacement drive clutch had no more problem since.Now 74k kl and 2 belt changes later and no more V light on every time I hit the road . Parts cost under $200.00at Partsfish.com.
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Donie
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PostSubject: Re: Update on Belt or Clutch slipping   Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:07 pm

Here's a puzzler.

I've seen many mentions here of the fact that the V Light comes on at pre-determined intervals to indicate that the belt needs changing, but that it is no indication of belt condition as regards slipping.

I've mentioned in a couple of posts that my V Light was coming on when I crossed 60-70 in an energetic fashion.

I also started a thread about my front brake binding, and received some good advice on what to look for at the front caliper.

I discovered that the top piston in the caliper(one of those activated by the right lever) is sticking, possibly due to the the fact that the pads are somewhat low.

So for the time being, until new pads arrive, I'm only using the left lever which only uses the smaller centre piston, and all is well and no dragging brake..........but here's the thing.........

In the meantime the V Light is not coming on as it did before.

So...... the dragging front brake was causing a heavy load (evidenced by greatly reduced mileage per gallon) and the V Light 'system' must have been sensing it......and tripping.

So I think there's more to this V Light than meets the eye.
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