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 front forks seem soft

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siataukreg
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PostSubject: front forks seem soft   Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:53 pm

Hi guys the front end on my sw feels soft like it has little damping effect having only got the sw last week i have been doing odds and ends on it and have not yet ridden it question is what is the oil capacity per leg in cc,going to take it out tomorrow see how it performs its got 22000 on the clock then if it still feels soft i will remove the legs and replace the seals and refill the oil
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:09 pm

I replaced the stock springs with Hyperpro springs and in my opinion is a very good mod. They cost about $150 or so and the company that makes them are based out of Alphen aan Den Rijn, The Netherlands. It so happens to be where my wife lived and grew up.

But these springs give the SWing a 'more motorcycle' feel, IMO. You can also just try a heavier oil too. I think they call for a 10 weight fork oil for stock and you try using a 15 weight oil. In other words try an oil that is heavier by "5" than what you are using now.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:47 pm

Well that's two plugs you've made for HyperPro fork springs today. What's this 'motorcycle feel' all about? If you want to feel you're on a motorcycle then ride one, you can play with the clutch and gears, have a fuel tank between your knees and all the rest of it.

You're recommending two new and inexperienced Silver Wing owners and maxi riders to change fork springs for no reason at all.

In contrast another new forum member from the UK who's already an experienced maxi rider gets on his new Silver Wing and feels at home straight away with it's handling, suspension, and performance. That's simply because he knows how to ride a maxi scooter.
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:01 pm

Meldrew,

Maybe you didn't read the 1st post. He was talking about 'soft front forks" and the Hyperpro's will improve the feel. The other post I responded to about the Hyperpro's was also about the suspension. Most people who do install them believe it is a big improvement.
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sctr199
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:47 pm

The recommended fork oil capacity per my manual is measured in several ways, but the easiest measure is 97mm from the top of the tube, fully compressed and after working tubes up and down a few times to expel any trapped air.  Recommended oil is Honda (of course) SS-8 suspension fluid.

Unless the seals are leaking, why take them apart?  Refilling with the same oil won't make any difference in how it rides. What you don't want to do is do all that work with no net result.

I have to give JeffR a +1 on the HyperPro springs.  Mine came with 20w oil and the instructions, if I remember right, called for filling to 100mm from the top of the tubes which I did.  Gone is the spongy front end, no more bottoming out or wallowing on tight turns.  Shortly afterward I added Hagon shocks which really helped the overall ride. IMHO, 2 very worthwhile mods to significantly improve handling.
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:59 pm

siataukreg wrote:
question is what is the oil capacity per leg in cc,

FJS600 shop manual says ... 302cc+/-2.5cc

On re-assembly remember to fit the springs with the "closed" coils facing downwards.
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siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:44 pm

Took the sw out yesterday for a short get to know it type of run and front end does not feel so bad on the road so i am going to give it a few weeks without doing anything to it just see how it goes thanks for the advise guys
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Good plan bud Smile
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SilverFeather
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:46 pm

Front forks are woefully soft.

That being said, it does not detract from the front end feel as much as I initially anticipated.

Will certainly look into the hyperpro springs though, not sure my Swing deserves the full Ohlins treatment Laughing
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:49 pm

OEM Honda fork springs are the pits - and the fork stiffness (i.e., non-stiffness) is horrible.  Something can be done about the springs (hyperpro springs) but sadly nothing can be done about the fork stiffness.  A solid front end is important for many reasons: emergency stops, coming into a corner too hot, taking a corner a bit hotter, rider comfort during rides, better rider control during manuevers (low or high speed).  If any of the foregoing reasons are important to you - then you may wish to consider hyperpro springs.
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zgoldwingman
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:25 pm

siataukreg wrote:
Hi guys the front end on my sw feels soft like it has little damping effect having only got the sw last week i have been doing odds and ends on it and have not yet ridden it question is what is the oil capacity per leg in cc,going to take it out tomorrow see how it performs its got 22000 on the clock then if it still feels soft i will remove the legs and replace the seals and refill the oil

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. The Swing doesn't have cartridges in the fork. Basically they are pogo sticks, just like the left fork on Gold Wings. I've played with changing oil weights quite a bit and never found the weight to make much different on these type of forks. When you are dealing with a Honda CR85, CRF250, CRF450 all of which have cartridge type forks, with valving a heavier oil is very noticeable. I feel the oil in the pogo sticks are to keep the internal, ie; bushings and springs from wearing and that's about it.
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zgoldwingman
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:03 pm

Guest wrote:
siataukreg wrote:
question is what is the oil capacity per leg in cc,

FJS600 shop manual says ... 302cc+/-2.5cc

On re-assembly remember to fit the springs with the "closed" coils facing downwards.

The Swing is the first cycle I have found this on, but my Service Manual shows the tight wound end of spring "UP".
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:09 am

I've owned two Silverwings, and never found the front end all that much too soft. Scooters have a bit harsher ride quality than most motorcycles, I know all the scooters I've owned, SW, B650 and now my 650GT have rougher rides by far than my Goldwings did. Smaller wheels don't ride all that smooth. I believe these scooters have softer springs in the front because of that reason.
Rebounding isn't a problem of the springs. That's always the damping. Low or very dirty oil will make things springy. I find ATF works well in these machines or 10W fork oil. If your fork tubes show a ring of dirt at the upper travel of the sliders (lowers) or you can feel oil on your finger when you wipe it on the fork tubes it's likely the fork oil is low.
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:38 am

Guest wrote:


FJS600 shop manual says ... 302cc+/-2.5cc

On re-assembly remember to fit the springs with the "closed" coils facing downwards.

My workshop/service manual also says the tightly coiled end of the springs should be uppermost.
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zgoldwingman
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:20 pm

siataukreg wrote:
Hi guys the front end on my sw feels soft like it has little damping effect having only got the sw last week i have been doing odds and ends on it and have not yet ridden it question is what is the oil capacity per leg in cc,going to take it out tomorrow see how it performs its got 22000 on the clock then if it still feels soft i will remove the legs and replace the seals and refill the oil


Don't remember the amount of oil capacity, but another example in the service manual is; with the inner and lower leg assembled and inner all the way down, spring not installed, fill with fluid/oil within 3 inches of the top. Work the inner tube up and down to bleed any air out and recheck oil level. Personally this is the way I do it. Same method on GoldWing, but 5 inches down.
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Chilliwing
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:39 pm

If you are going to service the front forks anyway you might as well upgrade to Hyperpro. It will not make it handle like a motorcycle but in my opinion will improve front end handling over the stock springs. Unfortunately Honda went with two small and of different size wheels (13 & 14). Handling could have been better if they followed Yamaha's "Max" larger wheel size (15) and fork setup.
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Greysilver
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:31 pm

Yes I think that 13' must be turning furiously at 80 mph. Even so I do love my scooter (and 75 is about top end for me).
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cello33
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:46 pm

Just serviced my forks, woefully soft, no spring force in them, in fact the wing felt like its was dragging its chin round the roads. It would touch down on left handers which i guess was the side/centre stand but anyways i rode it for 2months and 2000 miles before i replaced the fork oil with Motul 10W and that has worked frickin wonders!

The observation i have is that with the guide of filling the forks up with the stanchion fully compressed in the lower leg looked like their would be little or no oil in the fork leg. I later found the volume recommended by the service manual and that confirms it. You would not be able to get 300ish ml of oil in the leg unless its extended.

I filled it 100mm from the top which meant about 310ml, re-assembled the forks and its now working like a proper fork. I

Reading the content above makes me wonder if some of you dont have the required level of oil  in the forks which could be very very dangerous.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:34 pm

I have to disagree with that statement. Oil level is measured with the fork fully compressed and is 100 mm from top. The amount is pretty close 310ml is 10.48 oz that's good. You have to fill fork and pump it then oil level drops some but no way it would not fit in fork when compressed. I've changed my springs with no issues this way.
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terrier
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:32 pm

Have a look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBAEVGaCnCY
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm

A video is worth a million words. Honda level 97mm with Hyperpro springs 100mm oil level.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:33 am

I think today's fork complaints----please remember the youngest of these bikes is over 5 year old. Me, fork complaints I would replace stock springs, oil with Honda recommended, proper tire pressure and proper tire----remembering this is not sports bike, but heavy/top heavy scooter, ridden like scooter I think SilverWing works fine....changing it does nothing to change what it is. Leaving alone/riding worked for me over 90,000 SilverWing miles......and safe!
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cello33
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:59 pm

My bike is 16 years young with 18K miles and yes she does sag abit in her middle age. My issue is not with the overall handling but the hit when you go over a moderate bunp/access cover. She sits higher now at the front and handles bunps better but still too soft.

I will double check the oil levels volume when i can source some springs as I would cite the soft forks as a potential safety issue especially 2 up.

thanks for your comments/inks, much appreciated.

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Dave Weller
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:16 am

We are lucky in the UK, find a good size pot hole, if the forks don't bottom out, their fine for road use. I like a softer ride on the Maxi-scooter.
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siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: front forks seem soft   Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:52 am

terrier wrote:
Have a look here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBAEVGaCnCY

Just seen that video why does the guy put the spring back upside down ?
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