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 Nitrogen tire fill

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LDB
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Is anyone running nitrogen in their tires? I did in my cargo van and had good results. I'm thinking about it for my SW but wondered if others had experiences to share.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:50 pm

If nitrogen is lighter than air then how much lighter is your cargo van tire when filled with nitrogen vs filled with "air"?

If not a significant difference then what would be the advantage of using nitrogen?

Tim
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:57 pm

Good sales pitch.  It may have advantages in serious Motorsport but I'm not sure if there are any gains for every day motorists, after all air is 75% nitrogen !
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ronslaverda
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PostSubject: Nitrogen   Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:09 pm

bikerboy wrote:
Good sales pitch.  It may have advantages in serious Motorsport but I'm not sure if there are any gains for every day motorists, after all air is 75% nitrogen !

Nitrogen on its own is denser than air and therefore takes longer to defuse through the tyre, hence the tyres will stay inflated for longer.
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LDB
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:35 pm

Nitrogen molecules are larger than air molecules. Less of them can seep through the rubber of the tire so pressure stays up longer. It's also more resistant to heat buildup so pressure stays more even. It's also almost moisture free so there's no damage or rotting from the inside of the tire due to moisture as there can be from air. This is especially true if tires remain in use multiple years.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:38 pm

While air works so well, why bother? If you are too lazy to check air pressure often, you probably should not be on two wheels-----my new Genesis came with "NitrogenTire package" dealer is crook
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blufloyd
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:44 pm

I asked the first 'wanna fill your new tire with nitrogen' guy if he was going to suck the air completely out of tire or bleed it out. No answer. Existing air at 1 atmosphere plus the nitrogen at less than 2 atmospheres is not filling with nitrogen. Great gimmick but most places you can get zoomy green valve caps. I like my skull caps more better though.
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sctr199
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Have to agree that air is more practical. . . .if your tires are staying on your Swing for prolonged periods, you're not riding it enough Wink 
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:52 pm

john grinsel wrote:
If you are too lazy to check air pressure often, you probably should not be on two wheels

Nobody suggested that one wouldn't need to check pressures, merely that tyres would not deflate as fast.

Please stop casting aspersions about other peoples ability or suitability to ride.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:52 pm

john grinsel wrote:
  If you are too lazy to check air pressure often, you probably should not be on two wheels-----

If you are in so much discomfort while scootering around the country in hot weather that you shed your underwear, you should probably not be on two wheels.
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SteveO
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:33 pm

Tires filled with nitrogen do not change pressure due to temperature changes.

SteveO
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:55 pm

Personally, I don't see the justification of cost to convert to nitrogen fill. It is NOT cheap and if you (as I ) check your pressure frequently, YOU can't add nitrogen. And since I have an air compressor at each of my dwellings it is not a big deal to monitor air pressure. Just my 2 cents....
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:32 am

If you check your tire pressure regularly your tire will go down just from checking your tires. Then as Glenn said you will need to add air, and unless you have nitrogen you're just going to add air. Then there goes all the money you spent on nitrogen.
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DerrillW
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:27 pm

While it is true that nitrogen filled tires don't lose fill as quickly, they still lose over time. The benefit of nitrogen fill is for the greater part to the seller. Just sayin'...
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:53 pm

Nitrogen filled tyres belong only in museum pieces. They can stand admiring looks better than the working tyres on my bike.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:17 pm

By volume dry air contains 78.09 % nitrogen,20.95 % oxygen,0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide and trace amounts of water vapor. Save your money.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:39 am

I've been using 78% Nitrogen in my tires for over half a century in all my vehicles that have pneumatic tires. Works very well and is inexpensive. I have a large supply of the stuff too, never need to get a cylinder refilled either.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:28 am

SteveO wrote:
Tires filled with nitrogen do not change pressure due to temperature changes.
SteveO

The Ideal Gas Law (wiki)

PV=nRT

"The ideal gas law is the equation of state of a hypothetical ideal gas. It is a good approximation to the behaviour of many gases under many conditions"

It applies well to most any gas you and I will ever use. Basically saying that temperature effects pressure in almost all gases (including nitrogen) the same.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:33 am

exavid wrote:
If you can't ride it, fly it, or sail it why bother?

I agree completely!

Ride it:
Reflex (maxi-scooter)
Silver Wing (maxi-scooter)
Yam TW200
Two Honda CT70s (mini-bikes)

Sail it:
West Wight Potter 15 (mini-cruiser)
Coleman 15' canoe

Fly it:
Kolb Firestar
Kasperwing
Quicksilver MXL Sport

Drive it:
2013 Prius C
1990 Ford F250 diesel, king-cab, long bed, 4x4 (maxi-truck)
1995 diesel Gulfstream RV
1988 'built' Samurai 4x4 (mini-4x4)

Insure it, maintain it, inspect it, register it, smog it, store it:
AARrrrrgg!!!! Maxi-hassle!

And this is my CURRENT list...


Last edited by Thubbadubba on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:49 am

> Nitrogen on its own is denser than air

Where cometh that? N is 7 on the periodic table... O is 8. But O (oxygen) is a hugely more reactive gas and is almost always found as O2, that is, bound to another oxygen atom. The 2 oxygen atoms together act like one in their free state (not torn apart and bonded individually in water or CO2 or any other substance) therefore, in my pea-brain I would say 'Nay!, nay! Goodfellow, they act like they are 16 as far as mass and size, while Nitrogen is smaller at 7. Nitrogen is NOT reactive, and is almost a "noble gas". It isn't, but it almost is. It takes a lot of heat and pressure to encourage nitrogen to bond to itself or anything else.

> "and therefore takes longer to defuse through the tyre"

Doubt this, this the part where they lose me. So why do the hotshots use it? I have no clue.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:22 pm

Thubbadubba wrote:
> Nitrogen on its own is denser than air

Where cometh that?

From the fact that Earth's atmosphere is 79% N2, and only 19% O2?
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:20 pm

Since the inception of wikipedia/google search, everyone posts as if they are members of mensa!!! Funny really!
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:49 pm

> From the fact that Earth's atmosphere is 79% N2, and only 19% O2?

Actually no, Bigbird. What you said is the ratio of the mix and has nothing to do with the topic which was the tendency of gases to filter through the tire. The actual mass, the size of the atoms, is the important point if you (as we seem to have done) accept that larger atoms will take longer to filter through the rubber. Nitrogen atoms remain smaller than oxygen no matter how much of it is there.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:03 pm

hotwings wrote:
Since the inception of wikipedia/google search, everyone posts as if they are members of mensa!!! Funny really!

No mensa for me friend! I made a huge mistake (even after taking a great deal more chemistry classes than my degree required). I forgot that nitrogen IS bonded- it is in the form of N2 and I was thinking just N. It's pitiful really, the decaying detritus of my once functional brain barely supports the erratic sputtering bio/electric process I would call thinking. Even after twelve (12) full-time years of college completed, including a buncha chemistry (organic and inorganic, 5-6 classes IIRC). That's why I am retired.
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Nitrogen Tyre fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:18 pm

I know just how you feel but retirement does have advantages !!
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:38 pm

Thubbadubba wrote:
exavid wrote:
If you can't ride it, fly it, or sail it why bother?

I agree completely!

Ride it:
Reflex (maxi-scooter)
Silver Wing (maxi-scooter)
Yam TW200
Two Honda CT70s (mini-bikes)

Sail it:
West Wight Potter 15 (mini-cruiser)
Coleman 15' canoe

Fly it:
Kolb Firestar
Kasperwing
Quicksilver MXL Sport

Drive it:
2013 Prius C
1990 Ford F250 diesel, king-cab, long bed, 4x4 (maxi-truck)
1995 diesel Gulfstream RV
1988 'built' Samurai 4x4 (mini-4x4)

Insure it, maintain it, inspect it, register it, smog it, store it:
AARrrrrgg!!!! Maxi-hassle!

All was going so well until you mentioned Prius. :lol!:
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:55 pm

Prius? Have you had a bad experience with them? This is my second one. I even have nitrogen in the tires! :-)
It pulls my 1000 lb sailboat stuff just fine, except it knocks my mileage down to ~35 mpg.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:25 pm

No, it's a joke around these parts that Prius come from the factory with an Obama sticker on the back end.
My list:
Bikes: 1949 Cushman scooter, 1949 Triumph Thunderbird, Several Yamahas, Bultaco, Hodaka, Yamaha 750, GL1000, GL1100(s), GL1200, GL1500, GL1800(2), Silverwing scooters(2), Burgman 650.
Currently: BMW C650GT, K1100LT
Boats: Columbia 28, Kettenburg 38, One off Ketch 35', Albin 25 diesel, Pacific Seacraft 25, Minimax hydro, 8' three point hydro, 22' home built cabin cruiser several small boats, canoes, kayak, duck boat.
Airplanes: Three Piper PA20 Pacers, Super Cub, C172, C180, Mooney Mk20C, Mooney Mk20F, Lake LA4, Fisher FP303 ultralight, Avid Flyer on floats, 1946 Commonwealth Skyranger.

Lots of toys over the years. Down to the two BMW bikes and a Jeep TJ these days.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:11 pm

Thubbadubba wrote:
> From the fact that Earth's atmosphere is 79% N2, and only 19% O2?

Actually no, Bigbird. What you said is the ratio of the mix and has nothing to do with the topic which was the tendency of gases to filter through the tire. The actual mass, the size of the atoms, is the important point if you (as we seem to have done) accept that larger atoms will take longer to filter through the rubber. Nitrogen atoms remain smaller than oxygen no matter how much of it is there.

Seems to me an N2 molecule will be bigger than an O2 molecule. I'll get out my micrometer and measure their respective diameters.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:06 pm

bigbird wrote:


Seems to me an N2 molecule will be bigger than an O2 molecule. I'll get out my micrometer and measure their respective diameters.
Could you take pictures or one of you famous videos?
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:38 pm

Hi Yo wrote:
bigbird wrote:


Seems to me an N2 molecule will be bigger than an O2 molecule. I'll get out my micrometer and measure their respective diameters.
    Could you take pictures or one of you famous videos?

I'll use my Epic-M Red Dragon camera:

http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-m-red-dragon-carbon-fiber-w-side-ssd-carbon-fiber-and-magnesium-lens-mount

and video the event. Then I'll post it on youtube.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:54 pm

"Seems to me "

They just look bigger cuz of all the press they get.
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Silver Dave K
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:44 pm

swing Have we beat this Nitrogen to Death yet. Smile
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:46 pm

Silver Dave K wrote:
swing Have we beat this Nitrogen to Death yet. Smile
deadhorse Working on it. deadhorse
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:24 pm

I know! I got it! Let's talk about filling tires with CO2!! I think we can stretch this thread out a bit more!

CO2..
C=6
O=8
total mass 22, much larger than N2 or air. Why don't they use this in the tire shop? I use it in my bicycle, my 4x4, my motorcycles, car...

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Silver Dave K
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:20 pm

Still! swing flower
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:16 pm

study To make punctures a thing of the past, I reckon fill with ...





:lol!: :lol!: :lol!:

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Deno070
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:32 pm

Hey Bern, so what is it?
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Deno070
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:34 pm

Wow, I sent the last reply at 2:32pm and it says it was sent at 3:32pm. I wish, I would be getting out of work faster!!!
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:37 pm

How about hydrogen? Then tires would hardly touch the ground! Think how long the rubber would last? Laughing

Remember the Hindenburg!!! What a Face
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Deno070
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:38 pm

lol
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:11 pm

Deno070 wrote:
Hey Bern, so what is it?

Long chain silicone Deno :lol!:
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Deno070
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:12 pm

gotcha.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:31 pm

I suggest an acetylene/O2 mix. This will provide a nice contact patch- about one (1) acre.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:37 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
How about hydrogen?  Then tires would hardly touch the ground!

Reminds me of following the dry-ish river bed on my Big Wheel Yamaha.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:48 pm

exavid wrote:
Bikes: 1949 Cushman scooter, 1949 Triumph Thunderbird, Several Yamahas, Bultaco, Hodaka, Yamaha 750, GL1000, GL1100(s), GL1200, GL1500, GL1800(2), Silverwing scooters(2), Burgman 650 BMW C650GT, K1100LT Columbia 28, Kettenburg 38, One off Ketch 35', Albin 25 diesel, Pacific Seacraft 25, Minimax hydro, 8' three point hydro, 22' home built cabin cruiser several small boats, canoes, kayak, duck boat. Three Piper PA20 Pacers, Super Cub, C172, C180, Mooney Mk20C, Mooney Mk20F, Lake LA4, Fisher FP303 ultralight, Avid Flyer on floats, 1946 Commonwealth Skyranger.

Our hearts beat as one.
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Thubbadubba
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PostSubject: Re: Nitrogen tire fill   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:57 pm

exavid wrote:
BMW C650GT, K1100LT

I will always remember with a nostalgic fondness my 1962 BMW R50.
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