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 Swing won't start!

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Captain
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PostSubject: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 18:12

My Swing has been picture perfect over the last year or so - started every time.

Yesterday I tried to start it - starter was fine but it wouldn't catch. Nearly killed the battery but nothing. Mad

I can only think of a couple of things that may be an issue. I changed the variator a couple of months ago. Had no problems with that and I'm sure the belt would be bound up if something were wrong there.

Also used a portable gas can for my last fill-up - might have been water or dirt but I did ride it a couple of days (short runs). Got some gas line antifreeze with the water remover and tried that but still not starting.

Have it on the charger now as the battery has taken a beating. Will try tomorrow, if it doesn't go, I'll start pulling the spark plugs and carry on from there . . . sound familiar to anyone?

The thing starts like clockwork normally so this caught me completely off guard!!
scratch
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 19:00

I'm sure it doesn't happen to anyone but me, but did you check the kill switch?
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 19:02

What makes you think that? Embarassed
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 19:12

Yeah and I never dropped my Goldwing either. :ROTF:
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Captain
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 21:40

Yeah, first thing I checked - been there before!!

Tomorrow is another day - time to get dirty again.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 22:01

Hi Captain,

I hope recharging the battery does the trick. What year is your Swing?
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Captain
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Tue 28 Jul 2009, 22:34

Its an '05 that I bought new in early '08 - the plugs could be gone south but it only has about 2000 km on it yet. Any thoughts?
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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 00:01

Captain,

I would check your plugs like you plan on doing. Maybe they fouled somehow with the gas from the gas can. If you haven't changed/cleaned your spark plugs yet I have a "Pictorial" for that on the site. It will help make the job quicker. Also, make sure the connectors are nice and tight on the spark plugs too. As you pull a plug out you can check for spark too.

It just seems strange that it started soon after filling it with the gas can though. Keep us informed on what it is and good luck. Hopefully it is something not serious at all.
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Captain
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 15:24

Jeff,

First thing I did was check your spark plug tutorial - can't seem to find my manual and French isn't is my preferred language (we get both). Must run, the Honda place only has two plugs!

Thanks.
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 16:05

Make sure the "kill switch" is on....
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 16:06

Check to make sure the side stand is up also
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Captain
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 19:19

Pulled the plugs and they were soaked and black. They still had what seemed like plenty of spark but I swapped them out anyway. First push of the button, it fired right up. Laughing

Never had spark plugs go bad so quickly like that. Still think it had something to do with the gas as well. Gassed up with premium - not sure if its any better but hey . . . small moped can't hurt. Just goes to show that you need to check the basics first!
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 19:26

Good deal! Get back with us after you take a long ride and run a tank or two through it.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 22:24

Using higher octane than necessary in an engine can cause harder starting. The function of higher octane is to make the fuel/air mixture harder to ignite. High compression engines can detonate or preignite before the spark plug fires due to heat of compression or hot spots in the cylinder(s). Octane is increased to prevent this detonation (or pinging). Engines that aren't high compression types (like the SW) will start and run better with 87 octane. Not to mention it saves money. In this case there is a free lunch. Adding the gas line drier will also cause detrimental running and starting especially with most gasoline now bastardized with ethanol. Gas line drier is usually just methyl alcohol, ethanol or another alcohol. The combination of extra alcohol and high octane gas could easily cause plug fouling and hard starting.
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skydad99
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 22:38

Another thought about using Premium Gasoline is how fresh is it? Most people use Regular and I just wonder how long some of that Premiun stays in the tank between gasoline deliveries. Also, I think the Ethanol stuff the government is mandating is a bunch of bull. The Ethanol has less BTU's than gasoline, so you should see a slight drop in you car or SW's mileage. To top it off, we still get to pay the same or more to put that junk in our tanks.
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Captain
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Wed 29 Jul 2009, 22:43

Well, I'll just have to go for a long ride and pretty well empty the tank!! There's the upside! Smile
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Thu 30 Jul 2009, 00:08

Yep, I concur, the ethanol is a gimmick to get votes for politicians who represent corn growing states. It results in increasing food prices and corroded fuel systems in vehicles. My Goldwing drops about 2-3 mpg using 10% ethanol. Unfortunately for me Oregon state has mandated 10% ethanol in all auto fuel.
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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Thu 30 Jul 2009, 00:18

Captain,

I'm glad you got it running again and that it was an easy fix.
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Miro
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Thu 30 Jul 2009, 19:50

skydad99 wrote:
Another thought about using Premium Gasoline is how fresh is it? Most people use Regular and I just wonder how long some of that Premiun stays in the tank between gasoline deliveries.

I disagree. A LOT of newer cars require premium gas. As a matter of fact I noticed that big cities (nice areas) with nicer/expensive cares would have really expensive premium gas, about 30c more than a regualr gas, dictated by a higher demand.
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skydad99
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Thu 30 Jul 2009, 20:27

Most people that I see filling up are doing so with Regular down here where I live, which in the case here is 87 octane. The mid grade is 89 octane and the premium is either 91 or 92 octane depending on the brand. You may well be correct up in Wisconsin, but I was saying what I observe here. I do have a 1989 Chrysler's TC by Maserati with a turbocharged 4 cylinder that requires 89 octane and a friend had a Dodge with a Mitsubishi V6 that also required 89 octane. Here's a hint for some of you that might have antique cars that require lead in their fuel. Take a 5 gallon can or two to a private airport in your area and buy some 100 octane aviation fuel. It has a lot of lead in it and it stays fresh a long time and you only need to add a little bit(Maybe a gallon or so) to 20 gallons of the unleaded auto gas. Av Gas is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the lead substitutes they sell at auto parts stores and Wal-Mart.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 00:02

Most airport FBOs sell 100LL (LowLead) which has a lot less lead than even old leaded regular gasoline. You'd have to cut it around 15-20% with regular no lead gas to get the octane rating in a reasonable range which would leave very small amounts of lead tetraethyl in the mix. It's best to be discreet when doing that too since it's illegal to use AVGAS in on road equipment. Not that one is likely to be caught.
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skydad99
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 00:22

I guess we're getting off subject here since this started with engine starting problems and now we're discussing lead content. I'm not sure about what you said about the lower lead content. For instance, the big Continental in my Cessna 180 calls for a minimum of 80 octane and it ran fine on the old 80/87 octane av gas. I have the Petersen auto fuel STC and it was/is good for leaded regular or unleaded regular auto gasoline. I never have spark plug lead fouling using any of those gasolines, but when I burn 100LL exclusively, I end up with deposits of lead in my plugs. The Petersen STC says to use a 20% mixture of 100LL with Regular unleaded every so often(I can't recall just off hand how often) to help with the valves. If I remember right, he stated that that ratio would approximate 80/87 lead content. By the way, the old 135 octane gas we ran in the DC-7's years ago was a great lighter fluid. You could fill your Zippo with that stuff and it was every bit as good as Zippo lighter fluid.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 00:59

Yep, I used 80/87 in my Zippo in my smoking days. When I bought a Mooney the Zippo ran on 100LL just fine. Never had much lead build up on the wick either. Laughing
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skydad99
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 09:19

exavid wrote:
Yep, I used 80/87 in my Zippo in my smoking days. When I bought a Mooney the Zippo ran on 100LL just fine. Never had much lead build up on the wick either. Laughing


:ROTF:
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DomSaxum
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 21:38

Have had problems with fuel here in IN. Especially in mowers, etc. I put Seafoam in every third tank of gas in all my bikes.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Fri 31 Jul 2009, 22:04

I'm not a believer in "miracle-in-a-can" but I also use Sea Foam. I give my bikes, car and truck a shot about twice a year. I've used it in most of the Goldwings I refurbished in my shop and often saw enough improvement in running that I didn't have to do a carburetor overhaul. Good stuff.
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wes_ingram
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Sat 01 Aug 2009, 22:50

FYI. Be careful adding leaded fuel if you have a new bike, 2009, they have
a catalytic converter in the muffler. The lead will burn the converter out.
Not that it is a bad idea, you just may not want that high temperature
in your pipes.
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kawibiker
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Sun 02 Aug 2009, 13:13

Re: High octane gas not being 100% acceptable in a Honda engine.

NO way, it burns slower, it burns cleaner, it's a Honda, run 87, or 89, or 91,,

A Honda bike will not be having issues with hi octane gas, yes u may be wasting some coins, a few bucks per year, but the bikes will be fine on higher octane.
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driftwoodpoint
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PostSubject: Re: Swing won't start!   Thu 06 Aug 2009, 18:54

Glad you on up and running again...
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