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 Drive line Noise

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Drive line Noise   Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:48 am

My new SilverWing now has 3,000 miles----slight driveline noise developed, after a week or of gentle around town errands.

I am not alarmed!! My first SilverWing and both Burgman400's did it---all purchased new.

FIX:  Run engine up against brakes for less than 15  seconds.
Maybe dust/grit rubbed off belt/pulley. I am not wasting time taking things apart to look. Have in past. Have warranty if anything breaks

Cannot remember if my TMAX did this---but as it was fun to ride spent life being ridden harder than necessary.  Other rubber band drive scooters had to some degree--of the 4 new Helix I had, 3 had warranty clutch work done, all had some degree of belt slap at end of hard wide open run.  Reflex I forgot.

My Daelim 125 scooter had none of this.. in use everyday on dense city traffic, nor do 50cc scooters in Japan have problem with belts etc.

MY TAKE:This rubber band drive cheap for makers to build, simple in operation (expensive for user if you ride a lot  of miles) And best for 125cc or less!!

Based on past experience, now over 300,000 rubber band miles, I use 20,000 belt change intervals---but at near end of belt life, carry spare just in case.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:07 pm

john grinsel wrote:

FIX:  Run engine up against brakes for less than 15  seconds.

I know this procedure deglazes the clutch pads, but it is just something that seems so abusive to me. The stink and smoke of burning friction material just rubs me the wrong way (pun intended).
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:36 pm

Run engine up against brakes=hurts nothing. The noise/sometimes jerk is design failure----I ride in warranty, something break they pay.

Ride a lot taking things apart is pain and really not necessary. Only lots of in town slow/easy brings it up on my bikes.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm

john grinsel wrote:
Run engine up against brakes=hurts nothing.  

As I said, in your opinion, not in mine.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:41 pm

I'm with bigbird.

I find the transmission on the 'wing is cheap to maintain (and close to trivially easy if you have to tools).

As for noise, I had noise develop at the same time (as have many others here) - 3,000 miles or so. Mine (and many others) is a strange belt slap. It doesn't help that the casing Honda makes the CVT case out of is rough in a particular spot that the belt rubs. Not saying this was your problem, John - maybe you did have glaze on the clutch (which would be noticed by clutch slippage FWIW).
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:44 am

Look I ride a lot, have ridden a lot---now over 300,000 on these rubber band scooters-----try 2 or 3 belt changes in year=equals not cheap, doing own work.

My hobby is not taking these things apart, but is riding it/them.


Running engine up against brakes----seems to hurt nothing or I would have done a lot of walking!!
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:17 am

If you're riding 60,000 miles per year (you say you change every 20,000), the cost of those 3 belts isn't expensive - you're talking $240/year your first year for belts (you have the belt it came with and the two you have to buy at $120/each), which comes down to .4 cents per mile.  It also takes about 1 hour of your time each time, if you do your own work.  Should your clutch go, that's no more than an hour of your time.  A good deal if you like to ride rather than wrench (change clutch plates in a traditional motorcycle - you'll spend more than an hour not riding).

Heck, here it costs more than $360 in tax and registration the first year to have the bike.

And I probably pay more than you, but my insurance costs more.

You're paying just at $3,000 in gas if you always fill up with $2.75/gallon gas and you get 55 MPG.  That's 5 cents per mile.

I'm guessing your bike looses $3,000 in value if you buy new (even leftover) and ride it 60,000 miles.  I don't believe you keep it for years IIRC your past messages.  Another 5 cents per mile.

Tires...you'll probably have 6 sets of tires on during that time, which take me a lot longer to mount than it takes me to change the belt (= less riding!).  If you put the cheaper Michellins Power Pure SC on the bike, rather than the IRCs, you'll pay $500/year (assuming you get a great deal of around $100 for each of the 5 sets of tires you buy).  I'm only expecting 6,000 on my Michellins, so I would have spent $900/year in that time - and be sick enough of tire changing that I'd probably buy an electric tire changer.

I really don't see the intensive maintenance problem.  I have a friend with a Honda cruiser - it takes just as long despite having no plastic to check the valves as it does on the Wing (that's the worst of the Wing's routine maintenance tasks, by far; the second worst is fixing the inevitable loose head bearing).

The belt feels expensive because it's $120, not $2 like we might remember paying for a fan belt years ago.  But this belt is no fan belt.  It's not cheap to make, so the cost is in line with what it should be, and $120 for 16,000 miles or so of fun isn't bad.  But it's $120 that comes out of our pocket all at once, so it feels like a chunk of change.  But it ain't much at all.  Sure, you should consider it in the cost of the bike, but even if you figure in 10 changes over the life of the bike, that raises the price $1,200 for the bike - for around 200,000 miles of fun.  The Wing, at $1,200 more, would still be a steal.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:45 am

Wow! What a great economic analysis of long term ownership. Thanks!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:49 am

I am sure you have ridden all these rubber band drive miles...or just talk? I have ridden the miles, purchased and used 10 maxi scooters---bottom line they are not cheap to keep---bought the belts, remembering only Helix belt could changed by only taking outer cover off and blockin rear clutch.


Who checks valves on SilverWing? Easier to ride and trade at signs of trouble---if they ever come.

And who would consider Honda Cruiser? surely not me.


So far suffered only one belt failure----belt at end of service life, had spare-Pulaski,VA---great days of HRC.....they came to get you, paid lay up costs-----they took me to friend's garage, we changed belt and on the way
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Drive line Noise   Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:36 pm

jmaslak wrote:
If you're riding 60,000 miles per year (you say you change every 20,000), the cost of those 3 belts isn't expensive - you're talking $240/year your first year for belts (you have the belt it came with and the two you have to buy at $120/each), which comes down to .4 cents per mile.  It also takes about 1 hour of your time each time, if you do your own work.  Should your clutch go, that's no more than an hour of your time.  A good deal if you like to ride rather than wrench (change clutch plates in a traditional motorcycle - you'll spend more than an hour not riding).

Heck, here it costs more than $360 in tax and registration the first year to have the bike.

And I probably pay more than you, but my insurance costs more.

You're paying just at $3,000 in gas if you always fill up with $2.75/gallon gas and you get 55 MPG.  That's 5 cents per mile.

I'm guessing your bike looses $3,000 in value if you buy new (even leftover) and ride it 60,000 miles.  I don't believe you keep it for years IIRC your past messages.  Another 5 cents per mile.

Tires...you'll probably have 6 sets of tires on during that time, which take me a lot longer to mount than it takes me to change the belt (= less riding!).  If you put the cheaper Michellins Power Pure SC on the bike, rather than the IRCs, you'll pay $500/year (assuming you get a great deal of around $100 for each of the 5 sets of tires you buy).  I'm only expecting 6,000 on my Michellins, so I would have spent $900/year in that time - and be sick enough of tire changing that I'd probably buy an electric tire changer.

I really don't see the intensive maintenance problem.  I have a friend with a Honda cruiser - it takes just as long despite having no plastic to check the valves as it does on the Wing (that's the worst of the Wing's routine maintenance tasks, by far; the second worst is fixing the inevitable loose head bearing).

The belt feels expensive because it's $120, not $2 like we might remember paying for a fan belt years ago.  But this belt is no fan belt.  It's not cheap to make, so the cost is in line with what it should be, and $120 for 16,000 miles or so of fun isn't bad.  But it's $120 that comes out of our pocket all at once, so it feels like a chunk of change.  But it ain't much at all.  Sure, you should consider it in the cost of the bike, but even if you figure in 10 changes over the life of the bike, that raises the price $1,200 for the bike - for around 200,000 miles of fun.  The Wing, at $1,200 more, would still be a steal.

All great points made.

I think in miles per as well to keep in perspective of the total costs of things.





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