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 Voltage regulator

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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:51 am

Hi,
Could someone possibly tell me where the voltage regulator is on my 2002 Silverwing. Silverwing wouldn't start when I was out today and the breakdown man said that it wasn't charging. I have put it on charge for now and will see if I can get any reading later.
Thank you
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:25 am

Hello,

Just a thought...You might take your battery out of the scooter and have it tested at your local auto parts store. Sounds like the battery.

What year is you scooter and how old is your battery?
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:21 am

Hi DennisB,
The scooter is a 2002, not sure about the battery though. Only had the bike since January and had have had no issues with it throughout the colder months. I though it was the battery when it wouldn't start a couple of weeks ago. I took out the boot bulb as I had put in a new dampener which is quite strong and twists the seat to one side slightly, thinking it may not make contact with the seat properly. I went on a 60 mile journey a couple of days ago with the lights on, I though that this would give the battery a good charge. But today it started OK at home then I had to go to three places locally and it wasn't until the last place that it wouldn't start. When it is jump started all the dash lights and main driving lights work. If it was just the battery I would be very happy.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:58 am

Sounds as if your battery is weak, especially if, when it restarted, the trip odometer didn't zero and the clock didn't reset.

But to answer your original question, the voltage regulator is located under the front fairing and in front of the right cubby pocket. You can remove the front cubby and see the regulator terminal plug. All yellow wires IIRC.

The alternator stator can be tested at the wire harness plug located behind the left side passenger foot rest --the other end of that same yellow voltage regulator wire harness. HTH

Tim


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:00 am

The regulator is behind the front cover, which is basically the plastic front end. Before you start throwing money at the regulator, you or your mechanic needs a service manual to check the electrical system. The most common culprit on your age Silverwing is a shorted out stator. That isn't too bad of a job to replace, but the whole exhaust system must be removed to access the stator cover on the right side of the engine. Regardless, get a service manual, follow the procedures for testing both the stator and regulator, and go from there. I would put my money on a failed stator.
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:41 am

Cheapest check is the battery.  (Free load test)  Check your connections and make sure they are clean and tight.  

NOTE: The more you screw around with jumping and running a bike with a bad battery, the more likely you can cause other damage to the bike's electrical system.

You can order a new AGM battery for your Silverwing for $25 delivered to your door.  This is a thread on an inexpensive battery:

AGM battery thread
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:08 pm

Hi sorry I haven't replied back. I am at work at the moment and will read the posts probably when I get home. I have ordered a battery, so will see how that goes.
I was thinking though about one thing. When I did my 30 mile each way trip a few days ago, if the bike wasn't charging then the lights would have been hardly on, but they were still bright. Hopefully it will be the battery not able to hold any change. Thanks again everyone.
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:38 pm

Hi havelet2013,

I'm not far from you if you need a hand. I've got the Honda service manual which (as bigbird said) would help diagnose the problem if its the regulator or the stator. Hopefully, its just an old battery.

If you have a multimeter, connect it across the battery terminals with the bike running. The voltage should be in the range of 12.6 to 14 volts and as you increase the revs it will rise but should never reach 15v. If it doesn't behave like that it will be a charging problem. It sounds like your "breakdown man" may have carried out such a test.
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:38 pm

Thank you for your offer of help, RArch. Perhaps I can PM you if the new battery doesn't help. I have taken the bike to work with me tonight with jump leads, just in case. This afternoon before I went to work I charged it up, before I started it, it wss showing about 12.9V, and when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v.
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:56 pm

havelet2013 wrote:
Thank you for your offer of help,  RArch. Perhaps I can PM you if the new battery doesn't help. I have taken the bike to work with me tonight with jump leads, just in case. This afternoon before I went to work I charged it up, before I started it, it wss showing about 12.9V, and when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v.

Your testing tells me that your charging system is working fine and your comment about the lights bright also indicates the same, as the bright lights are being powered off of the stator / regulator.

A new battery will probably solve your issue.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:58 pm

havelet2013 wrote:
it wss showing about 12.9V, and when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v.
That is a good sign that your charging system is probably working properly.  And a battery is probably going to fix things. sunny


Last edited by model28a on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : lele beat me to the answer.)
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:08 pm

Thank you, Lalee. Hopefully the new battery will do the trick. And sorry on my last post I meant RArch.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:14 pm

FWIW, I agree with all the above on the battery being a likely cause, but if it really is the charging system, as BB said, look at the stator. Bad regulators usually fail in such a way as to overcharge, not undercharge.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:25 pm

havelet2013 wrote:
Thank you for your offer of help,  RArch. Perhaps I can PM you if the new battery doesn't help. I have taken the bike to work with me tonight with jump leads, just in case. This afternoon before I went to work I charged it up, before I started it, it wss showing about 12.9V, and when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v.

13.4V running and revved is low. Your regulator should be charging at 14.3-14.4V.
A check of the battery after immediately shutting off the engine or taking the battery off a charger is misleading and means very little.The battery voltage will eventually stabilize at around 12.6V. Your 12.9V again means little. Do yourself a favour and check both the stator and regulator using the procedure in the service manual. That will pinpoint the problem, or tell you there isn't one, in which case it's the battery. Based on your 13.4V revved reading, I'll stick with my stator diagnosis.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:35 pm

I know I said it is a good sign that it went to about 13.4V when you revved it up, but I was thinking that you only slightly revving it up. bigbird is correct if your RPMs high enough to take off with the wheels on the ground maybe 2,500 RPMs or more yes you should be over 14V. You definitely need to run the tests bigbird suggest. The tests are easy to run and you will destroy a new battery if you are over or under charging it.
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:00 am

Hi Again,
Took the bike out locally with the lights on and have checked the voltage on the battery which had dropped since I took it out from about 12.34 to 12.14v. I think I will be going with Bigbird's idea for the stator. I can't seem to find a manual in the UK. If I just go for the stator idea and replaced it myself is it a fairly straight forward job.
If someone could tell me where I may be able to get a manual from or may be able to scan the pages of the bit I need I would be very grateful.
Thank you all for your help
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:51 am

Havelet2013: I've sent you a PM, you can borrow mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:16 am

havelet2013 wrote:
If I just go for the stator idea and replaced it myself is it a fairly straight forward job.


It is a straightforward job. The exhaust system must be removed. The engine oil must be drained. Then the stator cover on the right side of the engine comes off. The stator comes with a new electrical connector and grommet. The main "gotcha" with installing a new stator is that the magnetism of the stator makes centering the new stator in its housing a daunting task. I suggest laying the Swing down on its left side. Then you just drop the new stator vertically into its housing. If you try to align the stator with the bike vertical, the magnetism pulls the stator off centre.
The appropriate service manual sections are 2-22 for exhaust removal and 12-2 to 12-4 inclusive for stator removal and replacement. Generally, when replacing the stator, it's a good idea to replace the regulator as well, if the added expense isn't an issue. That way, you're starting with a basically brand new charging system.
If you're in a pinch, I can send you by email the pdf's of the appropriate part from my service manual. Just PM me with your email.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:55 am

Big Bird, What's the trick in laying down the SW for doing the job? Seems to me that the side skirt and panel are at risk.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:20 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Big Bird, What's the trick in laying down the SW for doing the job? Seems to me that the side skirt and panel are at risk.


Tim, if you make the contact points the left bar end and left passenger foot peg bracket, it works well. When we did my friend's stator, we used car tires and some blankets to build up the contact points. There was still some contact with the left front fairing, but the weight wasn't a problem.

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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:05 pm

I can't remember the last time I read about a stator going bad on a Silverwing.  Man bites dog, but most of the time, a new battery will solve the problem.  It is a 5 minute fix.

Google 600cc Silverwing stator bad and see how many complaints are out there.  0 to 1

I wish you the best of luck with this problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:58 pm

lalee wrote:
I can't remember the last time I read about a stator going bad on a Silverwing.  Man bites dog, but most of the time, a new battery will solve the problem.  It is a 5 minute fix.

Google 600cc Silverwing stator bad and see how many complaints are out there.  0 to 1

I wish you the best of luck with this problem.  

Shorted stators are common on older high mileage Silverwings. Maybe in your mind, because you Googled it and came up with only 1 hit, it's a non-issue. I personally know of three Silverwing owners who needed new stators. But then again, I work on a lot more Silverwings than you likely do. The OP will be wasting his money on a new battery if his charging circuit output is only 13.5V
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:39 pm

Hello again, I have found a company here in the UK, that makes stators by hand for European and Japanese bikes. The price is 78 ukp or 129 usd. The problem being is that it says, check the size first. When I take the bike to bits I want do be able to put the new stator straight in.
The sizes are outer diameter 107mm , inner diameter 42mm and hole thickness 18mm. So without taking it out to check, does anyone know what size mine would be.
The other alternative is to by it through Partszilla, which would be 138ukp or 231 usd including p&p.
In the uk the same original part as at partzilla would be about 500usd.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:20 pm

I know I had to replace my stator and I gave someone advice on this forum how to do it.  
havelet2013 make sure you have a tube of silicone when you do the job. There's not a gasket on the stator cover it's just a thin layer of silicone. Make sure you seal around the electrical connector and grommet also. As bigbird said it's a straightforward job, not a hard thing at all. I didn't lay my scooter on it's side and I know why bigbird is giving you advice to do so. It's not impossible to do with the scooter standing up I did it, but the magnetism of the stator does want to pull it around. It is not hard to check the stator if you want to make sure it's bad. If you check the three yellow wires with a ohm meter if any of them short to ground your stator is bad. If it is bad you will probably find one of the coils in the stator is burnt when you pull it apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:53 pm

+1 on using ohm meter,takes the guess out of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:59 pm

havelet2013 wrote:
Hello again,  I have found a company here in the UK,  that makes stators by hand for European and Japanese bikes. The price is 78 ukp or 129 usd. The problem being is that it says,  check the size first. When I take the bike to bits I want do be able to put the new stator straight in.
The sizes are outer diameter 107mm , inner diameter 42mm and hole thickness 18mm. So without taking it out to check, does anyone know what size mine would be.


Another member of this forum also had his stator rebuilt in England, likely by the same company. The company should know the wire gauge for the Silverwing.
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:51 pm

bigbird wrote:


Shorted stators are common on older high mileage Silverwings. Maybe in your mind, because you Googled it and came up with only 1 hit, it's a non-issue. I personally know of three Silverwing owners who needed new stators. But then again, I work on a lot more Silverwings than you likely do. The OP will be wasting his money on a new battery if his charging circuit output is only 13.5V

I don't have a service manual for the Silverwing so I can't speak to the recommended output of the changing system. And, I am not a mechanic and I don't have a dog in this fight so it was just my opinion. I did some research on this forum after I read your post and there is discussion of a few other members replacing their stator so I did speak without prior knowledge.

What I do know is this: You can screw up your stator and rectifier if you continue to jump start and continue to ride a perfectly good motorcycle with a bad battery.

In my 40 plus years of motorcycling, I don't keep a motorcycle much longer than 20,000 miles, if that long. I put 30,000 on my Goldwing, but mostly I buy low mileage bikes and ride them for awhile and move on. Never had a problem with a stator, but I did sell my Kawasaki 750 because one had to pull the motor from the bike to replace the stator. Shop costs was $1200 10 years ago. I sold it before it developed the problem.

Same thing with cars and trucks. I just don't own one that goes over 100,000 miles.


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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:21 am

Mine is 14.5 Volt with lights on.

But... when (for example) one or two cells in the battery are shorted....

Then the generator/regulator has to deliver a lot more current than usual.

This can explain the Voltage drop .

Place temporary a good battery and (let) check the charging Voltage.

Then you know the culprit.

It's a 10 minutes job for a technician.

-----
Eddy
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:32 am

eddy wrote:
Mine is 14.5 Volt with lights on.

But... when (for example) one or two cells in the battery are shorted....

Then the generator/regulator has  to deliver a lot more current than usual.

This can explain the Voltage drop .


Eddy, I would think if his battery was internally shorted it wouldn't have the energy to start his engine after a half hour of internal discharging.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:45 am


Hello BB,

Statements from T.S. :

- did a 60 mile trip ,lights were still bright

- when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v

Confusing to me..

Two hours driving with bright lights... there must be charging...
But why only 13.4 Volt ??
---------------------------------------

Remark...
Years ago my (old) car battery failed no and then.
Charging (to 12.6 Volt) helped for a few day's... Voltage of battery ok.
Then suddenly only 10.5 Volt.
A new battery took all problems away.


Eddy



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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:58 am

Hi, and thank you one again for all you help. Just an update. From doing a check on the electrics it would seem as Big Bird say's it is the Stater. I have just managed to get a two week holiday from Sunday, so have decided to bite the bullet and do it myself. The wife is also going back to work from next week after being off from work for a month with a bad back, which means I can be left alone, with no female interference.
I have ordered a stator from Partzilla in the US, so that should be here by my second week. I have ordered some silicon sealer, a new battery, and a new exhaust joining gasket and clamp as that looks a bit rusty.
The reason I thought I would do it myself, was that I haven't got a great deal of money. But my mechanic would do it as quick as possible, but I would like to to take time and give things a good clean and also give the exhaust a good coat of heat resistant paint.
I may be asking for a bit of assistance, when I get going on it, but until then thank you all for your help.
Jeff
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havelet2013
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:06 am

Also just to say she is still riding great, just need to trickle charge at night and can still use it for local journeys.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:03 am

Jeff: if I can help let me know.

I'd love to discuss/see it apart for my own experience. Even if its just to spray some plus gas on those exhaust bolts Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:59 am

Thanks Richard,
I may well be taking you up on that offer. Hopefully I can do it over one of the weekends, while the wife is at work. She can be quite demanding and you can't get a good run at anything. You then end up rushing things back together and not doing or cleaning other bits while you are in there.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:35 am

eddy wrote:

Hello BB,

Statements from T.S. :

- did a 60 mile  trip ,lights  were still bright

- when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v

Confusing to me..

Two hours driving with bright lights... there must be charging...
But why only 13.4 Volt ??
---------------------------------------

Eddy, I suspect his stator has not totally failed, but part of the windings have burned and shorted out. There are still enough good windings to put out 13.4v, which is enough to keep everything running but not fully charge the battery. I may be wrong, but that's the logical diagnosis from me. If it was just a bad battery, his charging system would still show 14.4V.
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PostSubject: Service Manual   Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:31 am

Unable to get Service Manual here in N.Ireland.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:55 pm

bigbird wrote:
eddy wrote:

Hello BB,

Statements from T.S. :

- did a 60 mile  trip ,lights  were still bright

- when I started and reved it, it went to about 13.4v

Confusing to me..

Two hours driving with bright lights... there must be charging...
But why only 13.4 Volt ??
---------------------------------------
I'll 2nd that thought, my GW 1200 went through that phase it lasted from N.O to K.W and quit completely just before we reached home.

Eddy, I suspect his stator has not totally failed, but part of the windings have burned and shorted out. There are still enough good windings to put out 13.4v, which is enough to keep everything running but not fully charge the battery. I may be wrong, but that's the logical diagnosis from me. If it was just a bad battery, his charging system would still show 14.4V.
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PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:33 pm

Should have pulled the plug on the low beam so that the scoot didn't eat so many volts...or amps...or whatever.
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Voltage regulator
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