PERSONAL OPINION: Crossing to dark side tire. It works! WHERE and WHO is the question.

This is my personal experience, my opinion. Not here to start another never ending DS discussion. No bashing. Facts.

It may help somebody making a decision. It would've been good to have known than what I know now.

Are you finding yourself in a challenge or competition mode with yourself? Nobody can't tell you NO you can't do something because it becomes a challenge.

I do that with myself and because I am crazy, I argue with myself. The only way I put a stop to it is to tell myself:
-there is no competition
-I have nothing to prove to anybody or myself by doing it otherwise
-Because I am crazy I, may try something new once as long as nobody get's hurt.
-I will not do it again because I am working really hard not to be stupid. So I always ask myself, is it crazy or stupid. No shades of gray. (I didn't say anything about No. 50)

If you were asking yourself if you should switch to a DS tire. If you were looking for PRO and CONS I'll give you two questions to think about it. WHERE and WHO?

Remember when you were a kid and thought you can just build some wings and jump. It must work. Look at the birds.

Can you put an engine to a bicycle. Yes you can. There are limitations on speed and stopping but yes you can and they do it.

Can you put a wheel made of wood on your car? Yes you can. Will it drive. Sure do. There are certain limitation on speed and breaking but it will.

Can you tow a motorcycle behind a car with a rope? Yes you can. I've seen it on YouTube. You have to go very slow and may God help you if you have to turn or change lanes.

THE only reason I LOVE DS is for the extra miles you can put on. It's my saving plan. A dollar here in there, do stuff myself, learnm watch how to videos... it add's up at tax time. So other than money, there are no other major advantages do DS at all.

I drive the bike for a living. I put 100 miles a day every day of the week on a very slow day.

What I hate about DS? Is the stress driving on it.

The car tire looks the same, feels the same, goes as fast at the bike tire, it's great for low speeds, has better traction and incredible breaking ability, because its a winter tire ...BUT.

There is always a but isn't it and that BUT, it's like a gambling house. You may win some but the "house" always wins. ALWAYS.

So, can you really put a car tire of the same size and shape on a motorcycle? Yes you can! They did it before. Look at the spider tires. If I can only fit those on my scoot.

Will it feel and drive normal? Yeap. I can lean and do all that just fine. It is awesome. Who said it will not work? Specially if i just ride it around places with light traffic, in low speed, in the city...it's great. You can't beat the cost.

I don't know what DS you are using. Try this.

Go ahead and push on a new bike tire UNMOUNTED.
Now squeeze the side of the tire. Yes you can use both hands. Impossible to squeeze. It's there for a reason. You can ride it while flat. Can't steer **** but you can drive it straight at low speeds.

Now do the same to the car tire. Watch yourself, you may fall in your nose. It doesn't keep it's shape? Squeeze the walls. You are such a hunk. You can do it with one hand arnt' you. You strong fellow! (wait a minute ... why am I paying compliments to an invisible guy this way? That can't be! I am happily married! Am I?  )

You probable read my 2:00 AM Louisiana, rain, left lane instant flat tire story. It happen to me twice. Last I ran over a hand size man hole and slashed my 2 day old tire. I think I am typing this because of the RideOn junk that slowed the air gushing out by one second.

I am a puny midget  Are you a strong guy? Make sure you can lift 500lbs. Call your mom and ask if you have any Egyptian ancestors and teach you about how to lift heavy stuff like when they built the pyramids.

Had anybody else told you what happens with a DS tire when it goes flat. How about how fast it goes flat and what it does when you are slowing down?

Pray there are no cars behind you and you are going less than 50mph if it ever happens and the bike shop is just around the corner.

You have a flat tire on DS. Look at it. I said look at IT!   Your bike rim is flat on the ground. You are by yourself huh?
You can lay the bike on the side...if it's grass around.

Mr.Hercules, trust me, it's below your ability to put it on the stand. You will need a second person to help you lift the bike. And I am not going to be around. And I am a midget remember? I can't lift ****.

  

YOU CAN NOT RIDE IT or PUSH IT !
I'll give you about 10ft before you will be smoking your clutch. You will need a second person to help push the bike, with the bike on, accelerating lightly.

You may be driving on a DS just fine, for years. You will be saving a bunch of money. I think I will be putting another dark side soon enough. Although looking for one with stronger walls and I have to install a TPS monitor with instant alarm which will minimize the breaking time in case of a flat. I just pray that next time I am not on the highway on the left line, in the rain, in the middle of nowhere, AND NO CARS BEHIND ME !!!

I strongly believe that if I had a car behind me both times I don't think I would've been here typing this. The 2am ride with very heavy rain, horrible visibility, an 18 wheeler would've made me a car mat in no time...that's why you don't drive at night ... in the rain... in the middle of nowhere.

I need to call my mom to ask about any immediate cat relatives in my family.

Saving money? Not really. Unless you are in a fix income or no income.

80,000 miles on the first bike
40,000 miles on the second
Since DS will last about double life of regular tire, I will be saving about $100-$200 for every 30,000 miles.

In the end it's not a question IF IT WORKS because it does.

The question is WHERE will you be and WHO will be driving behind you when it **** hits the fan...or your tire.

PS> A reminder please remember not to ride with your child on the bike no matter how safe, experienced or old you think you are. If you get hurt, hurting your child hurts more than anything else in the world. The blame and the sorry after the fact will ruin you. Seeing your child bleeding or with a broke limb or worst on a pavement and knowing you did that .... that's the definition of perpetual hell that will hunt you for the rest of your life. You will be apologizing to your kid dead or alive until your last breath... "if"

Last testimony I got was from the cop that helped me lift my bike at 2:00am. While waiting for the tow truck he told me how he flipped with his 10 year old and broke his foot while avoiding a head on while the kid leaned the wrong way.

Also if you take your wife for a ride and you have kids home.. you know what I mean. My dear friends husband and wife went for a ride around the house. Went up the hill, but seconds before halfway the other side of the hill somebody decided to do a U turn . Perfect 50mph head on Tbone. They died instantly.


Let the bashing begin. I may be a midget but I have a long shadow in the evening. I can take it.

God Bless

L

I don't know what I got out of this?

First....if a person goes to car tire......mount it YOUSELF....bike rims/car tire beads are not the same. There is SAE paper on this. Cannot mount it yourself/bead will not seat easily??

Since front brake does 70% or more of braking force (on linked set up, too) car tire not relative on stopping. Does car tire and its size/dia. screw up ABS?

Scooters aren't the best handling 2 wheelers-----a square car tire doesn't improve this, since bikes are leaned to steer.

I think good advice/practice is stick to scooter tires, and do own tire work. Cost? accidents are expensive, too.

Without opening another can of worms I tell you this: there is NO difference between a used bike tire and a new car tire. I put 40 psi on it and I never lean a lot. I slow down in curbs. I went through 6 car tires on the Silverwing. Always winter tires. Vredestin Quatrac 3. (145 smaller tire. I tried the bigger one and made me puke)

Actually the profile is rounder and the wheel is  thinner than a runned down bike tire. A used bike tire becomes dangerously squarish at the end of its life  
What I wrote was my personal experience. My own thoughts. Just in case you wanted to hear somebody else impression before "crossing over"  ... if ever  

Have you ever seen a trailer with a airplane tires ? Did it work ? Its a freaking tire ! Can anything go wrong? Hell yeah, what you expect its a plane tire.  But he didnt want to spend the money on a  trailer. He cut of the wheels from wrecked small plane and weld it on an old trailer without wheels. He keept it  around the farm hauling food for animals.  

We all know those tires are meant for cars. But if you had to, could you ? Will it work? Shure it does. It a freaking tire designed to take twice the weight of a bike tire . Can something go wrong? Sure will ! It's a freaking car tire and not a motorcycle tire. Will anybody else wanna try it for watever reason? Are you starving? Are you on fix income? Have done everything in your bucket list?  ARE YOU A REAL MAN WHO NEVER BACKS DOWN FROM A DEADLY CHALLANGE?  HELL YEAH !

... "hold my beer"...

Will I have a preference WHERE will I be and WHO is behind me when **** hits the fan...or tire. Well make sure you are not getting cut in the wrong side of the road with an 18 wheeler behind you with no route to escape.
If you can manage that. You are a real man living on the edge...of something.

I am trying to take a bath here, i just cut a huge widow maker aka tree my fingers are wet and I cant type. Why am I telling u this .. I cant see on thus phone  oh man, I drop tge soap.   Bye now

Did you bump your head recently?  I hope you are ok.

(takes the bait.)

Holy **** LN! That's one heavy load of wisdom you're laying down here. Thanks.

Tim

I am alone, got the flu, sitting here with nothin else to do. I may regret all those postings tomorrow. Rambling. Rambling bitter and cold. ill sleep now

LN wrote:

Without opening another can of worms I tell you this: there is NO difference between a used bike tire and a new car tire.

Which is why most of us fit a new tyre when the current one 'squares'.

Every 30,000 miles or so I put a new one on the rear.

Wow! He was a little bit excitable I think.   Too much coffee and I can get a bit intense myself. (but maybe not that intense)

Anyway, I've been reading my old posts on several forums and gathering stuff and thinking about doing an exposition on the Darkside. If I get right on this, it could take a week or 2 or 3 to get it all together in a reasonable semblance of organization.

I have a lot of stuff to look through yet so I'll have to give this some more time and thought.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is a reason that CTs and MTs are designed differently. It isn't because tire manufacturers are trying to screw motorcycle and scooter riders into buying tires more often. Motorcycle racers don't use CTs. Must be a reason no? If you have a flat which do you think would be less likely to come off the rim before you could stop, CTs or MTs. I've seen more than one automobile whose tire came off the rim after a flat. Cars don't have forks either so usually when one of their tires comes off the rim it doesn't jam the rim from turning as it easily could on a bike of any kind.
I don't say anyone is stupid for using CTs on a bike. I don't think it's a good idea and wouldn't do it on mine but if it floats your boat go ahead. If you do I believe the few bucks you save don't counterbalance the possibility of serious problems it could get you. No, I don't know for sure which are best but it still comes back to those engineers who design tires; why are MTs and CTs different? Why does Metzler who makes both kinds, make both kinds? Why don't CT manufacturers offer their tires for bikes? Wouldn't they then make more money by opening up the bike market, or is it that they don't want to be sued?
You do your thing, I'll stick with bike tires.

bandito2 wrote:

Wow! He was a little bit excitable I think.   Too much coffee and I can get a bit intense myself. (but maybe not that intense)

Anyway, I've been reading my old posts on several forums and gathering stuff and thinking about doing an exposition on the Darkside. If I get right on this, it could take a week or 2 or 3 to get it all together in a reasonable semblance of organization.

I have a lot of stuff to look through yet so I'll have to give this some more time and thought.  

Meh... Changed my mind about doing that as ultimately it would be an exercise in futility.
Sure, I could point to Darkside forums where those that use passenger vehicle tires AKA "car tires" on their bikes and talk about it. But then I'd have to say that a lot, maybe most of those folks are not aware of all the design differences between "car tires" and bike (motorcycle-scooter) tires.

So then I could also point to articles written by scholars (some documented with diplomas and some not) with a lot of technical info, diagrams, charts, theory and opinions about those design differences. But then I'd have to say that they ALL (so far) have no actual test comparisons showing with empirical evidence that using a "car tire" on a motorcycle is dangerous; or rather I should say, more dangerous than using a motorcycle tire. Nope, no evidence or test results showing that. However, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows that the practice is NOT unsafe and has been done successfully without incident. Anecdotal evidence merely means the information (evidence) is not formalized, it does not mean that it is in any way invalid, untrue or unusable.

So I can only point folks to both sides of the subject and let them draw their own conclusions.

Personally, I am of the belief that there are often more ways than one to do things effectively (and safely). And that just because one way is different and not the official or approved way does not automatically make it dangerous; it only makes it different. And for some, that different aspect ends up being better for them.

It still bugs me sometimes though when doing something for the GF and it's not the way she would do it and she tells me to be careful because I  MIGHT  break something. I often fire right back at her: "YEAH, AND I MIGHT NOT!"
We sometimes come close to arguing because I remind her that for all her warnings to me, SHE is ALWAYS the one who breaks stuff, not me. Honestly, that is the way I think of the detractors/naysayers/anti-darksiders.

Monday I blew the rear tire at 55mph on my trike, the center scooter tire with less than 1,000 Miles on it. Was no problem at all, did not effect the control of the trike. I plugged it for now but will have a car tire installed soon. I myself would not do it on just a scooter but my trike kit holds the rim off the road.

Magoo Triker

bandito2 wrote:

just because one way is different and not the official or approved way does not automatically make it dangerous; it only makes it different.

No, but it may invalidate one's insurance; especially if a claim is contested and goes to court.

You're wasting your time, the US is a country where there's thousands of miles of roads going more or less in a straight line. A few members think they're saving money fitting car tyres to ride along the straight roads and get better mileage than on scooter tyres. It doesn't really matter as it's only for the warmer and drier months of the so called 'riding season', and it's being a bit bada** because of the Darkside name.

Saying you're a Darksider sounds a little mysterious but it's better than telling everyone you're really a cheapskate tosser that thinks they know better than Honda which tyres are best suited to the Silver Wing.    

I thought all this rubbish about "going over to the Darkside”  was supposed to be in a closed section of the forum where you needed permission to access.

Of course there wouldn't be much of a response to posts from the few car tyre fetishists already there, that's why they continue to post stuff with Darkside in the title on the open forum.

Couple of things

Blow out on 4 wheel "trike"...in other word scooter with training wheels-----did you ever think your scooter is doing things it and its parts it was not designed for??

Also agreeing with Meldrew and in addition to straight roads, etc----US is land of very low skill riders in many cases.......so difference in handling wouldn't/couldn't be noticed and we have no inspection standards that forbid wrong tires in scooters/motorcycles. My experience in Europe....put the car tire on solo, crash=your insurance is no good.

Car tires can work on sidecar outfits, but require special rims, in Germany entry in title of bike. Had 15" rear wheel on MZ sidecar outfit---2CV tire, special tube with outset valve stem----And did it make any difference?? well it made bike un-rideable solo and against the law. Why did we make these conversions?=looked nice and the idea that rear tire lasted longer----saving money=probably not true after considering cost of conversion and there were lots of cheap bike tires available

Meldrew wrote:

Saying you're a Darksider sounds mysterious.

I think I'd rather be a 'Bright'-sider.  

Amongst some scooterists going over to the 'Darkside' means exchanging Vespa/Lambretta with gears for a Twist & Go scooter....so the expression is either meaningless or it means what you want it to mean.  

Magoo Triker wrote:

Monday I blew the rear tire at 55mph on my trike, the center scooter tire with less than 1,000 Miles on it.  Was no problem at all, did not effect the control of the trike.  I plugged it for now but will have a car tire installed soon.  I myself would not do it on just a scooter but my trike kit holds the rim off the road.

Magoo Triker

I don't get this Silverwing trike thing at all, to me a trike has two driven wheels at the rear correct me if I'm wrong. These "trike" conversion kits are basically adding an unbraked undriven outrigger wheel either side of the Silverwings rear wheel, so it's really on four wheels and not a trike at all.

My youngest grand daughter has a pink cycle with a outrigger wheel either side of the rear cycle wheel it's not a trike either and we call the two extra rear wheels stabilisers, when she gets a bit more confident at riding we'll remove them.

Well you can call the trike kits what you want in that respect... Yes we have 3 wheels in the rear, most importantly we have smooth ride on long trips and for us with disabilities we still enjoy riding.

Magoo Triker

Colin B wrote:

bandito2 wrote:

just because one way is different and not the official or approved way does not automatically make it dangerous; it only makes it different.

No, but it may invalidate one's insurance; especially if a claim is contested and goes to court.

Sheesh! like I tell the GF: Yeah, and it might not.
It could be argued that there are no laws (in the US anyway) that prohibit the practice.
The only distinction/requirement is that they be D.O.T. approved tires to legally be on the road. Trucks have certain tire requirements though.  If one were to try to bring up the issue of articles showing incompatibility of the tire exchanges, it could also be brought up that there has been no comprehensive testing to definitively show a clear danger to the degree that it should be prohibited. None! And plenty of examples of how well it works without incident for others could be included in defense of the "car tire" on a bike practice. Also, I've not seen nor heard of any such kind of case even ever happening much less enough for those that "darkside" to even be concerned about.
I would think this would apply in some degree to warranty issues as well, though manufacturers often do impose certain guidelines, restrictions and limitations. Still, they would need to be unambiguous about certain points to to able to defend claim denials.

Until they, whomever that may be, either for or against the practice of using a "car tire" on a motorcycle/scooter get full, inclusive, unbiased comprehensive testing done to show definitively, without doubt the level of danger that would make it unsafe and worthy of banishment or safe enough to not be banned or prohibited then there will not much to argue against the legitimacy of using a "car tire" on a bike. And even then there would be a process to implement a prohibition/ban if it were determined against the practice. In this country (USA), we are free to do as we please until there are legal restrictions put into place to prohibit an activity. Which is unlike how it seems to be in Europe where pretty much anything is illegal until they make laws to say an activity is allowable.

It seems to me that the Darkside section was put in place so that practitioners could discuss the subject unmolested. Out here in the open forum threads if it is OK for some to attack the idea or the occasional itinerant messenger that wanders into hostile territory, then I feel it is only fair to be allowed to defend in a civil manner of course. That is to defend the messenger or at least point out the futility of the argument in effort to neutralize the conflict. That is until certain points of the subject are clarified, settled, and finalized.

It could be argued that there are no laws (in the US anyway) that prohibit the practice.

This is a very important point and needs repeating:

This forum is international therefore what may be correct in one country isn't necessarily so elsewhere.
Let's all have this in mind and be careful not to 'lay down the law' as if it's the same the whole world over.

Just because a practice is not illegal, and can be easily be performed, does not, of itself, mean that it right, or sensible to do it. No government can legislate agaist stupidity.

I'm not suggesting that anyone who uses a care tyre on a bike is stupid, but, if it is such a good idea, why do tyre manfacturers go to the trouble of making bike specific tyres, when it would be much cheaper all round to make a universal tyre?

I can see that, on a trike (that doesn't lean) a flat profile tyre may offer advantages. But for those on two wheels, much of the enjoyment of biking is in putting a bike through a bend; better still, a series of bends (twisties). Perhaps, as was said in a previous post, bikers in the US Ride long distances on fairly straight roads. All I can say is that, in Europe, the greatest biking roads have that accolade because they wind their way along their route.

I cannot imagine riding them with anything like the ease or enjoyment on a square tyre.

We do indeed have some long straight roads in the US, we also have a lot of them that would tax a snake's back. Plenty of mountain roads right here in Oregon that have some impressive twisties. I'd be surprised if the percentage of squids were much different in Europe than in North America, people are people we all have our supply of those testing Darwin's theory.
I don't and never have lived in a state in the US that inspected motor vehicles. Most of the places that do that are more interested in collecting taxes than safety anyway. I always wear a helmet but don't believe that the government should tell me to do so. My problem not yours. Same with all bike gear, if I choose to ride with a thong and flip flops so be it. Perhaps the Evironmental Protection Administration might have an argument about the effect of the sight on children and the weak but it should be my decision. Lucky for all I don't intend to expose such a thing to the general populace out of compassion on my part.
Go and ride on your CTs or on the smaller scooters feel free to run on wheelbarrow tires. The darkside argument is pretty boring when you get down to it. I've seen hundreds of posts on Goldwing forums as well as many other bike forums on the subject. In the end nothing is decided. It shouldn't be either, it's up to each one what they want to put on their bike or what color jacket or thong they prefer to wear.

bandito2 wrote:

In this country (USA), we are free to do as we please until there are legal restrictions put into place to prohibit an activity. Which is unlike how it seems to be in Europe where pretty much anything is illegal until they make laws to say an activity is allowable.

Reading another topic, it seems in the US your neighbours can ban you from keeping a motorcycle on your own property if you live in a gated community.

One only has to see the 'American Chopper' episode showing Paul Snr. riding a chopper with chrome-plated deer antlers bolted to the handlebars to see that that's the case.
I think I prefer the British system.   

It doesn't matter.

Cuz it doesn't matter.

If you've had a butt full of the back biting crap that goes on here and you said pretty much the same thing when you were larryinseattle, why did you sneak back on here under another forum name?

As for sharing your experience of riding your Silver Wing, I must have missed that because there's more in your posts about your Gold Wing, car tyres, trailers, your Kawasaki Drifter, even your avatar and signature feature you on your Gold Wing.

As before if someone contradicts your views you complain you're being attacked, and the car tyre topic had more or less gone away until you returned. You're still larryinseattle.

I forgot who and where I was, so I am grateful that you told me and put me in my place.

Thank you.

I must point out to the moderators -

There was a special car tire section set up where those who are interested in such a thing could go and congratulate themselves and share info. People had to opt in so that this kind of foolishness would not appear in the regular forum threads. And those who were not interested and did not opt in could live their days oblivious to the nirvana that a car tire provides.

Could all of this Special People talk be moved to that section and any further car tire discussion should also occur in that section.

Indeed they can but one has to hope that interested parties will post in the right place in the first place and not have to rely on moderators to nanny them.

C'mon, Mike move it, move it now.

No, I'll lock it in 10 minutes' time.
It's time members grew up and made efforts to conform, not rely on moderators to do everything for them.
Counting down now.

The problem with locking something in a dark cupboard is that all posts, even the constructive ones, are invisible to the non elite. How can a new member then learn the current thinking?

When a public discussion goes wrong, it is usually when opinions differ, but one member decides to make a personal attack against another, rather than post an objective contribution.