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 HID / Xenon Headlights

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eggster34
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PostSubject: HID / Xenon Headlights   Fri 10 Jul 2009, 21:10

Hello,

I just got my '04 SW about 3 weeks ago, and I was wondering if any of you had fitted an HID / Xenon Headlight system to improve your lighting and visibility? Please provide links if possible so that I can purchase one as well. I prefer European links since I live in London, but US links are ok too Smile

Thanks!
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Fri 10 Jul 2009, 21:51

eggster34 wrote:
I was wondering if any of you had fitted an HID / Xenon Headlight system to improve your lighting and visibility? Please provide links if possible so that I can purchase one as well. I prefer European links since I live in London, but US links are ok too Smile

http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?pid=26317#pid26317

http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?pid=29191#pid29191
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mickey
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sat 11 Jul 2009, 00:20

Don't get a system that is intended to replace the stock headlamp bulb. The reflector and lens are designed for a specific halogen bulb. The beam pattern will be all screwed up if you install an HID bulb that isn't supposed to be there.

Here is a technical discussion on the subject that will really open your eyes:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html

There are several excellent tech articles there. Learn why HID lighting isn't necessarily as great as you think it is. Learn why the myth of "color temperature" should be ignored. Etc.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sat 11 Jul 2009, 00:50

mickey wrote:
Don't get a system that is intended to replace the
stock headlamp bulb.

I would suggest talking to SWing'ers that have switched to HID headlight bulbs rather then generalized statements.


mickey wrote:
The reflector and lens are designed for a specific halogen bulb. The beam pattern will be all screwed up if you install an HID bulb that isn't supposed to be there.

Here is a technical discussion on the subject that will really open your eyes:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html

There are several excellent tech articles there.

Not a problem on the SWing. I have the 35W HIDs (55W were not available then), but I would have gone for the 55W.

With low beam HID bulb the low beam still remains within the "square box" with better peripheral lighting.

With high beam HID bulb the high beam baths the entire area
and a central beam.

mickey wrote:
HID lighting isn't
necessarily as great as you think it is. Learn why the myth of "color
temperature" should be ignored. Etc.

BTW I selected 4500K which is a very WHITE bulb (no blue) ... if you were to purchase the 55W watt you would select one grade higher 5000K due the higher wattage for the WHITE light.

I drove with the stock Halogen bulbs for 8 months and I could not spot the majority of the wildlife on the side of the roads till I was just past them ... which was very scary and dangerous.

After I switched to the HID bulbs, I could easily see the wildlife down the road and on the side of the road ... no more surprises. I guess I am a myth buster.

There are quite a few SWing'ers that have installed the HIDs headlight bulbs that I know of from posts and private messages ... so I hope they chime in too.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sat 11 Jul 2009, 19:42

I was one of the first to do so a few years ago. Never regretted it. You will however have some problems if you try to put a headlight modulator on an HID bulb. You can do either one, but not both (at least not easily).
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sat 11 Jul 2009, 21:02

dspevack wrote:
I was one of the first to do so a few years ago.

Yup, Dan answered all my questions. king I ordered and installed my HID bulbs and love them ... so it is all Dan's fault. Wink
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sat 11 Jul 2009, 23:56

dspevack wrote:
I was one of the first to do so a few years ago.
honda_silver wrote:
Yup, Dan answered all my questions. king I ordered and installed my HID bulbs and love them ... so it is all Dan's fault. Wink

I'm a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad boy. Twisted Evil
I go around corrupting Silvering owners into modding their bikes. Giggity!
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mickey
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 12 Jul 2009, 00:06

One good thing about HIDs is they use less wattage, so you free up a little juice for other things. I think they run on about 30 watts once they get warmed up.

They don't like switching on and off, so they don't work very well for high beams.
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eggster34
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 09 Aug 2009, 09:22

I assume I need the H7 version of the ddmtuning kit?
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 09 Aug 2009, 17:00

eggster34 wrote:
I assume I need the H7 version of the ddmtuning kit?

HID H7 ( http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?pid=11220#pid11220 ). The 55W was not available when I ordered mine.
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eggster34
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 08 Oct 2009, 18:55

I purchased, received and installed the 50w ddmtuning kit.
The main beam is just great, it's almost %60-70 more effective than my old beam.

The full beam is also very good, but it takes a little time (30 secs or so) for it to warm up each time I switch it on, so I can't use it to signal in traffic as much as I'd like to, but I'm still quite happy with it. Thanks for all your advice.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 08 Oct 2009, 20:05

Eggster,
Welcome to the Xenon fraternity.
I'm a little concerned when you say that your full beam takes time to warm up.

If you purchased two of the same bulb, than one should not take more time to warm up than the other.
This is not a problem with my Xenons.

Am I missing something?

Dan
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steveonfarm
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 05:39

Hi all!

I've just found some reasonable priced xenon headlight bulbs on ebay and fancy the extra illumination they seem to offer. I've read all the threads on this site with reference to this subject but remain a little baffled......

So, please excuse my ignorance here but could someone tell me what HID stands for, if I can simply replace my headlamp bulb with a xenon one to achieve a 50% brighter beam, why some of special kit may be needed, and what a modulator is in relation to this subject?

Also, is it true that they take time to warm up meaning that they can't be used to flash on full beam?

Thanking all responders in advance for any advice on this subject Smile

SteVe
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 06:03

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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 11:45

Some people swear by HID lighting systems, others don't. HID stands for High Intensity Discharge. It's a different way of producing light than the halogen bulbs.

There is a danger in converting a halogen light to a HID, in that the light focal point is not in the same position. Your headlight reflector was made for that point to be at one place, and a HID bulb...while it will fit...will put that point somewhere else.

What happens usually, is you get lots more light. You get lots more light on the road...on the trees...on the freeway signs three lanes away...and in the eyes of the drivers approaching you.

The only way to avoid that, is to install a HID projector light. I can't imagine it is any different than it is on my Burgman where you take out the headlight reflector. Heat it slightly in the oven and then pry it apart. (The heat loosens the sealant.) You then install the HID projector and then reseal the whole system and reinstall.

I used to have HID headlights (non-projector) installed on my Burgman, but gave up on them. While I didn't get hardly anyone flipping their headlights at me, I couldn't help but notice as I was going around a bend with an oncoming car, that I was lighting up the inside of their car. And this was after adjusting them downwards a lot.

Chris
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 16:24

There was someone on here who went step by step through the heating of the headlight to loosen the lens as chris stated, and the projectors he replaced them with, etc. But you'll have to search for it.

Modulators as stated above refer to headlight modulators that will bring the beam down to about 30% and back up in quick succession, perhaps a few times a second. They are designed to get attention, are a common upgrade on bikes, and perfectly legal. However Xenon bulbs do not take kindly to that kind of action.

You also asked if you could just change the bulb. No. The Xenon HID kits include high powered ballasts that are needed to ignite the light. The power usage settles down to well below that of regular lights, once the lights are on.
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steveonfarm
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:09

This is the link to the xenon bulbs for Silverwing I found on ebay and it clearly says: "Direct replacement with existing lamps". Is this wrong?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-silverwing-all-02-06-xenon-headlight-bulbs-H7-501-/330725353553?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d00c46851#ht_2402wt_1181

Up to 50% more light on the road
Better reflections from road signs
UV resistant Cut Quartz allows safe usage with plastic lenses
Optimised colour temperature to give ICE white light
Direct replacement with existing lamps
Fully E approved

SteVe
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:41

He is selling a halogen bulb with a blue filter. "a distinctive tint to give your car that modern HID look without any of the cost."

They are a waste of money.

Note the blue filter. If you put a lampshade over a bulb, you cut down the light coming out of it, don't you? Spray paint a light bulb, and it won't be nearly as bright as you would have without the spray paint on it. The lights like this are to give you the "cool" look while posing and cruising down the street with the chicks watching you.

Also, the white light left over after filtering out some of the other light frequencies, is harder to see through rain and fog.

I've put a lot of study into lighting over the past couple years. It's hard to separate out the marketing hype from the reality. Occasionally you can get some real tests versus the "gee, it looks cool, so it must be brighter" review. What I've found is Philips makes two excellent bulbs that will give you decent lamp life and put out more light than almost any other bulb that is legal to use.

I have installed the Philips Motovision bulbs. They put out more light than a standard bulb. They also have an orange look in the reflector that might catch someone's attention so they don't pull out in front of you. The orange isn't produced by a filter either. It's in the base of the bulb and is just enough to give a unique look.


The other is produced by Philips also and puts out even more light. It is the Philips XP Moto. It's pricey, but they put out more light than anything else.

One thing you want to watch out for, are the bulbs that promise more light by being a higher wattage. You can generally go to about 75W, but the 100W bulbs will melt your wiring harness. And in using a 75W bulb, I didn't find it any brighter than the Philips Motovision, which is 55W.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:52

Thanks for that Chris!

Looks like you saved me making a silly and disappointing purchase Smile

SteVe
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 18:50

Hey Chris!

I have done a little more research and it seems that a number of bike riders recommend using these ..............

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00440CWCG/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

thoughts?

SteVe Smile
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 19:34

One of the things about buying from Amazon with customer reviews, is you can see what others said about the product. I'll generally go straight to the ones who hated the product to see what they said. I can generally tell if the complaint was valid, or simply user error that they don't want to admit.

Those bulbs look good, but I'd do a price comparison against the Motovision and XP Moto. I think both of those bulbs are designed for motorcycle use and the extra vibration we get. But if the price is less for those, buy them. When you get them, you can see what you think and pass along the info to the rest of us.

The brightest bulbs are getting the extra brightness often by being more precise in the manufacturing. The placement of the focal point for the light is critical. I can see it on my wife's Camry which uses H4 bulbs. I have a bright aftermarket bulb in the left side and the original H4 bulb from my Burgman on the right. When they are shining against the garage door, the bright aftermarket bulb is brighter and more focused in the area that would shine out the farthest. The cutoff is sharper too. The OEM Burgman bulb that has the same wattage, just isn't quite as bright or sharp.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Sun 10 Jun 2012, 22:25

Some LED auxiliary lights are providing the same amount of light that an HID headlight and with long life.

All LED lights are not all the same and comparing wattage does not help. I find the best way to compare LED lights is via nighttime pictures ... to show both the pattern and brightness.

These are the lights I use ( http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607184 ) which contains lots of pictures and information


Model 60 Flood lights ( http://stores.advmonster.com/-strse-47/Rotary-LED-Dimmer-with/Detail.bok )

Model 44 Older Flood lights ( http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/-strse-2/Black-Model-44-LED/Detail.bok)

Model 30 Driving lights ( http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/-strse-8/Model-30-LED-off/Detail.bok )

Since the lights are so bright, I will only use with a (Pulse Wave Modulator ... PWM) dimmer with high beam bypass ( http://stores.advmonster.com/-strse-47/Rotary-LED-Dimmer-with/Detail.bok

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Duke1
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Wed 27 Jun 2012, 17:02


I live in London, come and have a look at the ones that I have fitted, they do a great job!
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Wed 27 Jun 2012, 17:34

AFAIK in Europe the HID headlamps for cars are only legal if the whole system is self levelling but I have no idea what the rules are for bikes. The big BMW 1600 has the levelling and lots of people have them on bikes without any problems. Personally I would use auxiliary LED lamps using Dennis's excellent bracket and connector.( No connection, just a satisfied client !!!)
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Wed 27 Jun 2012, 17:42

bikerboy wrote:
...Personally I would use auxiliary LED lamps using Dennis's excellent bracket and connector.( No connection, just a satisfied client !!!)
+1 Not a satisfied customer...but one who played around with the idea of his light bar for over a year before coming up with something that is similar, and not nearly as nice.

For anyone who installs HID lights, I recommend you walk out in front of your bike aways and then walk back toward it with the lights on as if you're an oncoming car. If you're tall, it would help for the simulation to bend zee knees a bit to lower yourself to the approximate height of the oncoming driver. My experience on a different bike, is I had to lower the lights significantly to keep them from totally blinding the oncoming traffic.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 01:14

Fitting HID lamps to a vehicle in the UK requires informing one's Insurance Company; if they approve the modification it seems that no-one else will raise any objection.

I have just been Googling for this; I'm not going to post links but it's all there.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 06:42

Talking to the chap who did my MOT for the Silverwing, he was saying that MOT now check if HID lights are retro-fitted and comply with current legislation. Basic rule is if there isn't a self leveling system then an MOT failure.
Don't know that the offence is if the boys in blue notice but they are bound to think of something to book you on if they have a mind to do so.

I have these fitted as auxillary lights -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-1600LM-CREE-LED-Light-x2-Wireless-Dimmer-Switch-Jeep-Rally-4x4-Dirt-ATV-/180868392684?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1c98a6ec#ht_30475wt_1181

Cheers,
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:57

Thank you for that useful and up-to-date information.

It's almost saying retro-fitting of HIDs to motorcycles in the UK is not acceptable and, therefore, illegal since there are no self-levelling kits available, are there?
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:59

That is correct Mike, a lot of cars (esp. Chavs) going around totally blinding the hell out of other road users. "But they look cool officer!!"

Cheers,
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 11:22

Before taking the HID lights out of my Burgman, I noticed that I was still lighting up the inside of cars on one particular corner. Then I got to thinking. What if...

...what if the car coming around the corner that I just lit up the inside of, had a driver who thought those lights were blinding? What if the car had a light bar on the top? And what if the guy inside had a badge?

I wouldn't just be blinding someone...but it could affect my pocket book too.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 12:21

Isn't the only reason to upgrade your lighting for better vision when riding at night, especially if you do a lot of miles and live in rural or country areas. Swapping the OE bulbs for high-performance bulbs from PIAA, Bosch, etc is probably the easiest way to go about it, and that's it the job's done.

Anything else is the lighting equivalent of the loud pipes that annoy everyone except the rider, and when an approaching car driver annoyed by your badly adjusted HID/Xenon set up retaliates and fries your retinas in a returning salvo, you won't have to wonder why. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Thu 28 Jun 2012, 15:14

steveonfarm wrote:
Hey Chris!

I have done a little more research and it seems that a number of bike riders recommend using these ..............

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00440CWCG/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

thoughts?

SteVe Smile
I have those on my SW and all I can say is that the stated 100% more light is no more than.... 50% Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Fri 29 Jun 2012, 04:49

It does say 'up to 100% brighter'; the vehicle to which they are fitted must make some difference.
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Fri 29 Jun 2012, 08:30

'up to 100% brighter'... When compared to a blown bulb Smile
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Fri 29 Jun 2012, 08:37

Now its making sense
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Mon 02 Jul 2012, 11:26

RArch wrote:
'up to 100% brighter'... When compared to a blown bulb Smile

It is a case of clever marketing. A standard bulb puts out an amount of light - that light is 100% of what it can put out. So any bulb can put out 100%. They never compare a bulb and say this bulb is 150% brighter than a Phillips or Osram (insert any make here).
Likewise the statement '30% brighter' is meaningless if again no comparison.

Additional lights are probably a better idea - see my previous post in this thread for ones that can be dimmed.

Cheers,
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Tue 23 Apr 2013, 00:10

I have most of my plastic off - for varied reasons - so now is a good time for electrical upgrades, such as DDMTUNING HID. The options include 55watt now as only 35watt were available for oh so many SWing pioneers.

Looking especially to get feedback on users of 55watt HID as I am concerned that I may overdo it if I go for two 55watt bulbs (HI and LO). Has anyone experienced problems with the 55watt bulbs? Too bright, can't turn them on much due to other cars, or anything else you care to share?

Has anyone considerd 35watt LO and 55watt HI - or visa versa?

Will the slightly bigger balasts of the 55 watt present any problems?

At night, on the freeway, I am greatly over running my SWing stock headlight range - if there were a brick on the road - I would likely hit it. I am hoping to step up to a lighting system that vastly improves my freeway night driving visibility range.

Many thanks.

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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: HID / Xenon Headlights   Tue 23 Apr 2013, 00:38

I believe we had a member install the 55 watt HIDs and he had no problem with the heat of the bulbs and the plastic lens. The ballasts will not present any problem because your Silverwing temporarily cuts power to the light when the bike starts, and you have plenty of power in the wing to ignite those lights. The power requirement is to start the lights. Running the lights takes no more juice than normal.

Stay below 5500k for the color temperature. Usually around 4300k-5000k is best. 5500k is considered daylight, after which light starts to turn blue.
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