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 20,000 miles

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Woodstock
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PostSubject: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:54 am

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a Silverwing with 20,000 miles on it. Is that a lot for one of these motors and what maintenance should I do to it as soon as I get it?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:09 am


First how old is the bike? Old, new tires/drive belt/fluids....does it come with complete maint. record? Battery? Used can be cheaper to do stuff right up front, than have problems down the road.
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Woodstock
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:30 am

I believe it's a 2002. I'm not planning on putting it on the road until the spring so I have time to do stuff. No maint. records but I'm being told it's always been kept up. The upside is I'm getting it for $1700. Some scratches but no cracks in the plastic. I currently drive a Helix and looking to move up. Just not sure if 20k miles is a lot for one of these as I don't want to do a motor rebuild in the near future.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:44 am

I rode 4 new Helix----highest engine miles at trade 50,000. SilverWing, taken care of, probably no engine failure---cost of repair would exceed value of bike.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:04 am

Woodstock, welcome to the forum. Yours is a common question. If you go to the search box and enter "buying used" you will find several discussions. It will probably answer most of your questions, or give you more. 20,000 miles is not a lot for a well maintained Silver Wing, and the price is great. The belt should have been changed at 16,000 and the tires are probably more than for your Helix. If it's a winter project, you will want to get a manual. Again, the search box will help you find one. I hope this helps to answer your initial questions and many other answers can be found in the maintenance section.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:15 am

At 20K miles its barely broken in. But an '02 with only 20K miles would seem to indicate that it has spent a lot of it's life sitting in the garage unloved. Dry rot will effect the tires as well as the belt. I would certainly consider replacing the belt -think of it a cheap insurance- and expect to replace the tires after close inspection. After all they are 11 years old. Siphon out the old gas and add Seafoam to the fresh gas. It'll help clean out the varnish in the fuel system.

Get the factory Service Manual off eBay -they are all the same from 2002 on up- and learn how to do the basics for yourself. I can virtually assure you that your local Honda dealer knows much less about your Silverwing than many of us here do. Good luck

Tim
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:27 pm

I might add, be prepared for replacement of the fuel pressure regulator. They are known to fail after 5+ years. The diaphragm rubber dries out, cracks, and allows fuel to leak into the intake manifold, causing flooding and a no start condition. Fixing this yourself, under $100. Dealer? A lot more.
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:36 pm

You will need to do the maintenance noted in the Honda Service Manual for sure as well as what is noted in posts above.  20,000 miles on this engine is not much at all if it was properly cared for.  IMHO, you will need to address many items on your SWing over the next 50,000 miles - but the engine is not likely one of them.  Unless your go mighty fast, you are never going to come close to redlining your engine - it usually just purs along at less than 6000 rpm.  




bigbird wrote:
I might add, be prepared for replacement of the fuel pressure regulator. They are known to fail after 5+ years. The diaphragm rubber dries out, cracks, and allows fuel to leak into the intake manifold, causing flooding and a no start condition. Fixing this yourself, under $100. Dealer? A lot more.
Bigbird - How long would it take you to replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator? I have a 2008 SWing - should I wait for the Regulator to fail - then replace it - or do a pre-emptive maintenance repair at some future date - when?
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:32 pm

$1700 is a good buy. No reason to suspect any serious engine or drive problems with only 20k miles. You might find the drive belt needs changing, that's around $140 depending on where you get it. I suggest checking out Motogrid online. I've purchased a lot of Honda parts for Goldwings and Silverwings from them. You can still get the plastic parts in most colors from them as well. They aren't cheap but you can replace them from time to time if you want to spiff up the bike. These are pretty easy machines to work on, a lot easier than my GW. You won't need a lot of special tools. A 3/8" drive torque wrench from Harbor Freight is useful if you don't have one. They are cheap and the one I have tested very close to my expensive Snap On. Besides a torque wrench and the usual common metric mechanic tools you'll need a service manual. Helm Inc. sells brand new manuals for just about every machine Honda ever built. They cost a bit but everyone who has a bike should have a factory manual, with that in hand you can do anything a trained mechanic can, a bit slower, but it makes it possible to do anything needed successfully.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:20 pm

Dimond wrote:
>>How long would it take you to replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator?  I have a 2008 SWing - should I wait for the Regulator to fail - then replace it - or do a pre-emptive maintenance repair at some future date - when?<<
It  takes about 45 min. All you have to do is remove the seat under cover and the FPR is right there at the end of the fuel rail. Disconnect the vacuum line and the fuel return line then FRP unscrews with an adjustable wrench.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But at ~$50 it wouldn't be wrong to have one (and the O-ring) in the tool box.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:05 am

I agree with all the above but one comment. Since the scoot has 20K on it my feeling is that it is doubtful that it has the original tires... Never heard of anyone that gets THAT kind of mileage. For that reason inspect tires, but they may not need replacing.
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rjdoles
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:10 am

I bought my 2005 with 15k miles for $2800. It was at the end of the 2012 riding season. It was a clean scooter and it ran great. The previous owner indicated that it needed the 15,000 mile service and it was obvious that it needed new tires. He said that if he spent the money on those items, he would keep it for another 5 years. I checked with the Honda dealer and they wanted over $1000 for the 15k check and to replace the tires.

I bought the scooter and told my wife that I would use it as my winter project. She replied that I wouldn't be able to wait that long to work on it and expected that it would be done in a couple of weeks. As usual, she was right. I did the work myself for less than $300. I believe that the belt was $120, the tires were $110 and 28g Dr. Pulley sliders were $50.

The drive belt, sliders, spark plug replacement and fluids change was pretty easy with the help of this forum. I am not sure that I would try to change the tires again myself. If you take the scooter to a dealer they will change the tires for about $300. If you buy a set of tires and take the wheels and tires off yourself, the dealer will change/balance them for about $50.

The price for your 2002 seems very good and I would expect any water cooled scooter or motorcycle that had a minimum of care to be capable of going 100,000 miles without any engine trouble. If you are mechanically inclined then you can do all the 15k service work for about $300.

Good luck
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surlybiker58
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:17 am

I would say it all depends on what kind of care the previous owner took in maintaining it.
Ask to see the maintenance record and receipts if he has them .
If he had the work done at a local dealer they might be able to print it out for you .
At 20,000 miles it could just be barely broken in or a complete basket case depending on how it was cared for.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:33 pm

surlybiker58, Woodstock said in his second post "No maint. records but I'm being told it's always been kept up." But I agree with what you said about it could be barely broken in or a complete basket case. Woodstock also said he currently drives a Helix so he should be able tell if it is a basket case with a test drive.
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:59 am

Woodstock,
I also have a 2002 Swing. I am currently rebuilding it after getting into an accident. I have rebuilt the front forks, replace the head ball bearing with roller bearings, replace the inner cover, left storage box, front cover, left lower cover, and meter panel. As I recall the 2002 Swing had two items recalled by Honda. The rear wheel could develop stress cracks when traveling on bumpy roads, and the handle bar mounts could come loose and the handle bar could detach from the bike. You can check with your local dealer as to the status of your bike by giving them the VIN of your bike.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:29 pm

WingMan02 wrote:
Woodstock,
I also have a 2002 Swing. I am currently rebuilding it after getting into an accident. I have rebuilt the front forks, replace the head ball bearing with roller bearings, replace the inner cover, left storage box, front cover, left lower cover, and meter panel. As I recall the 2002 Swing had two items recalled by Honda. The rear wheel could develop stress cracks when traveling on bumpy roads, and the handle bar mounts could come loose and the handle bar could detach from the bike.  You can check with your local dealer as to the status of your bike by giving them the VIN of your bike.
What kind of roller bearings did you use to replace the steering stem ball bearings? Are the new roller bearings Honda parts? If so could you please give the Honda part#, or if aftermarket bearings could you please supply the bearing's industrial number. Thanks.

Tim
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:01 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
What kind of roller bearings did you use to replace the steering stem ball bearings? Are the new roller bearings Honda parts? If so could you please give the Honda part#, or if aftermarket bearings could you please supply the bearing's industrial number. Thanks.

Tim
+1 on that.
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:18 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
What kind of roller bearings did you use to replace the steering stem ball bearings? Are the new roller bearings Honda parts? If so could you please give the Honda part#, or if aftermarket bearings could you please supply the bearing's industrial number. Thanks.

Tim
Hi Tim,I would guess they are the same roller bearing  that I fitted in mine ;)if so they are aftermarket from a US supplier .... All Balls .... & credit where it's due,they do supply top quality stuff Smile


Kit in the UK cost £34.32 from ... http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/Honda/

Across the waters see cost $47.25 ...... http://www.allballsracing.com/steering/22-1037.html
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
WingMan02 wrote:
Woodstock,
I also have a 2002 Swing. I am currently rebuilding it after getting into an accident. I have rebuilt the front forks, replace the head ball bearing with roller bearings, replace the inner cover, left storage box, front cover, left lower cover, and meter panel. As I recall the 2002 Swing had two items recalled by Honda. The rear wheel could develop stress cracks when traveling on bumpy roads, and the handle bar mounts could come loose and the handle bar could detach from the bike.  You can check with your local dealer as to the status of your bike by giving them the VIN of your bike.
What kind of roller bearings did you use to replace the steering stem ball bearings? Are the new roller bearings Honda parts? If so could you please give the Honda part#, or if aftermarket bearings could you please supply the bearing's industrial number. Thanks.

Tim
Tim, I ordered it off of Ebay.  Cost was $40.95 with free shipping. Ebay lists the seller as chaplinmotorsports.  Their item number is 161054314794 and it was the All Balls bearing.
Honda Steering Stem Bearing Bearings RC51 2000 2001 FCS60... (161054314794
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:15 pm

On my two Trail 90's the bearings got flaky. But considering the bikes are 39 years old... Anyway I switched them both and put in the All balls units and they work GREAT. Will they last as long as OEM? Who knows but they were easy to replace!!!
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:50 pm

The problem with replacing the stem bearing was the extraction and installation of both races.  The top can be extracted using a socket extension and hammering it out from the bottom of the stem shaft. The bottom race cannot be seen from the top and hence cannot be hammered out.  I had to use a gear puller with two of the arms facing outward.  Had to use the other puller arm to lay across the bottom opening of the shaft and center the puller shaft on to the spare puller arm.  The two arms that I used were just able to lock onto a small ridge of the race and extract it.  I used the old top race that I ground down to re-seat the new top race.  The bottom race was a pain.  I am still suffering for severe carpal tunnel, and had a hard time holding the old race and galvanized pipe against the new race and hammering the new race back in.  After some time I got the new bottom race seated. Now my steering is really smooth, and my pre-load is between 2.5 and 3.5 lbs.  
Someday I’ll talk about rebuilding my forks and adding a longer top spacer.  Again it was a challenge with my carpal tunnel.  Having the old triple-tee to secure on a bench vice was a big help.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:27 am

Chilling the steering stem in the freezer for a an hour or two and warming up the lower bearing in a warm oven or even with a hair dryer or heat gun just to where it gets a bit too hot to hold in the bare hand will make it a lot easier to put together. Getting the old lower bearing off is helped by heating the bearing with a heat gun and tapping a couple flat screwdrivers or a couple of small cold chisels between the bottom of the bearing and the steering stem. That will open a gap that can then be used to pry opposite sides of the bearing simultaneously. I've changed several in Goldwings, they're larger but assemble to the steering stem the same way.
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:25 am

exavid wrote:
Chilling the steering stem in the freezer for a an hour or two and warming up the lower bearing in a warm oven or even with a hair dryer or heat gun just to where it gets a bit too hot to hold in the bare hand will make it a lot easier to put together. Getting the old lower bearing off is helped by heating the bearing with a heat gun and tapping a couple flat screwdrivers or a couple of small cold chisels between the bottom of the bearing and the steering stem. That will open a gap that can then be used to pry opposite sides of the bearing simultaneously. I've changed several in Goldwings, they're larger but assemble to the steering stem the same way.
Exavid,
If you are talking about the bearing races, then I did freeze both races, but still had problems with the bottom race.  I did not do the hair dryer trick.  As for the bottom race, you cannot see the bottom race from the top of the stem tube due to the narrowing at the middle of the tube.
Another note is that I fabricated a super deep 32mm twelve point socket for the steering lock nut.  I ordered two sockets, cut off drive side on one of the sockets and welded both sockets together.  Works great.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:23 am

WingMan02 wrote:

If you are talking about the bearing races, then I did freeze both races, but still had problems with the bottom race.  I did not do the hair dryer trick.  As for the bottom race, you cannot see the bottom race from the top of the stem tube due to the narrowing at the middle of the tube.
Chilling the bearing race would "reduce" the diameter. That may be the reason that it was so difficult to mount on the stem. Chilling the stem would reduce the stem diameter and heating the race would increase that diameter.

But then Momma ain't gonna be too happy about yer grimy motorsickle parts in her freeze though
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:28 am

Dammit cosmic jumper you just beat me to it!!!!!!
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Woodstock
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:23 pm

So I'm getting ready to pick this up. The only thing that bothers me on it is there is a big sticker right in front of the dash showing it's a 2002 and the VIN under that in big numbers. The manual I found on line doesn't show it in that spot so I want to make sure it's the real VIN and not a stolen bike with a fake sticker on it. Can someone verify that it should be there in plain sight?
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:54 am

Woodstock wrote:
So I'm getting ready to pick this up. The only thing that bothers me on it is there is a big sticker right in front of the dash showing it's a 2002 and the VIN under that in big numbers. The manual I found on line doesn't show it in that spot so I want to make sure it's the real VIN and not a stolen bike with a fake sticker on it. Can someone verify that it should be there in plain sight?
That sticker is just for convenience purposes.  It does give the recommended tire pressure. The actual VIN is stamped on a plate on the right side of your bike, below the foot stand. Check your service manual for the location. Several members have removed that sticker.  I just replaced my inner panel and did not replace the sticker.
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Woodstock
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:57 am

Thank you!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:59 am

WingMan02 wrote:
>>The actual VIN is stamped on a plate on the right side of your bike, below the foot stand. Check your service manual for the location.<<
Not so true!On the '02 the VIN sticker is prominently located on that sticker below the handlebar and above the gas fill door. On the '03 and later models that VIN sticker was relocated to the right side of the front body work alongside the front wheel. Ya pretty much gotta lay down and look up to notice it.

But, yes too, there is a numberplate attached to the right side of the frame behind an oval cut out 'window' in the right skirt and kind of below the exhaust pipes. But while that number may be much the same as the VIN it may not necessarily contain the entire VIN number.
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WingMan02
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:09 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
WingMan02 wrote:
>>The actual VIN is stamped on a plate on the right side of your bike, below the foot stand. Check your service manual for the location.<<
Not so true!On the '02 the VIN sticker is prominently located on that sticker below the handlebar and above the gas fill door. On the '03 and later models that VIN sticker was relocated to the right side of the front body work alongside the front wheel. Ya pretty much gotta lay down and look up to notice it.

But, yes too, there is a numberplate attached to the right side of the frame behind an oval cut out 'window' in the right skirt and kind of below the exhaust pipes. But while that number may be much the same as the VIN it may not necessarily contain the entire VIN number.
My bike is an 02 and after replacing the inner cover, I no longer have a sticker.  Local Honda dealer is not able to replace the sticker.  My VIN on the sticker matches the metal stamp on the plate exactly. How would you get a replacement sticker if you replaced your front body work where your sticker is located? There are places on the internet that you can order a replacement sticker, but since it is not necessary, I will not replace mine.
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Woodstock
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:16 pm

Picked it up today. Just need a few warmer days to ride it before it goes away for the winter.
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DanB
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PostSubject: Re: 20,000 miles   Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:26 am

Enjoy your new to you scoot. I lived in Nashua, N.H. and graduated from high school there. You've got a fine state for riding.
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