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 someone put sugar in my oil!!!

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Lordbal
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PostSubject: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 23, 2013 8:37 pm

As the topic reads, I have sugar in my oil. Want to know how I should go about cleaning it out. Engine stopped functioning while off, not during a run (but came to operating temp and rode smoothly prior to conking out). Engine was turned with a crowbar, but hard due to sugar caramelized. Should I take the block apart and soak in a solvent like gasoline or...?
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 23, 2013 10:12 pm

It's more likely the rings ceased up .I would first remove the spark plug and fill cylinders with varsol or diesel fuel ,and fill the crank case full, gasoline can dry the seals.Let it sit then try turning the variator by hand.If you can turn the crank by hand keep on turning it till it gets free .later try with the starter without the plugs install .remove the fuel filter, empty .and repeat the process .After draining and replacing the oil filter put some 0/20 oil and see if it will start,if it starts let run for 3 minutes ,shut it down and start again .If you succeed to get it to run ,let it run longer to warm up the engine then drain everything ,then do a engine flush like they do at speedy lube .You might be able to save your engine.If not look for a replacement on e bay .A tare down might be more costly then a engine swap .
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 23, 2013 10:37 pm

Boy, you must have really PO'd somebody.

Tinman has about the most practical advise.

Once you do get the engine free, and if you are able to get the engine to run again you're going to have to do multiple oil changes after ever increasing run times to purge all that contamination from the oil system.
You can use light weight oil at first. Change the filter every other time. This might be a good time to use those cheap Walmart oil filters.

Jeez, don't use a crowbar to turn the engine. Try a breaker bar and a 17mm socket on the variator bolt. A crowbar is only going to damage the variator.

Tim
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Fri May 24, 2013 3:03 am

ya i think thats what they used to get it to turn (at the shop) but they did say that it turned.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Fri May 24, 2013 4:31 am

I would change the oil filter everytime you change the oil.

First time I've heard of anyone putting sugar in the oil. I assume they did so because they can't get to the fuel cap.

Pity the oil filler is so accessible, one time when convenience is not such a good thing.

Cheers,
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Fri May 24, 2013 5:32 am

Just tell everyone you have a sweet ride Laughing
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 12:54 am

ok found out it is seized completely, anyone know a website where I can buy an engine for it?
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moonshiner
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 1:51 am

look around at the cycle salvage places , you can usually buy a good low mileage motor for about $300 to $400 dollars , if your lucky they will throw in the rest of the totaled bike just to get rid of the parts ,I wish you luck finding one , cause it is terrible to be without your ride , I think I would find the @$$hole who did it and show him why he shouldn't be putting sugar in the crank case ...this kind of makes me think that I should make a billet locking dipstick for my swing , I have had people to tamper with my bikes before , like letting the air out of the tires , and the best one was when someone took a sewing needle and made a few small punctures in my tires , I guess hoping a tire would fly off the rim at 65 mph , I know its best to keep it under lock and key in a garage , but that's just not always possible ...
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 2:06 am

One word of advice, don't try to use a crowbar on any part of the engine to turn it over. It's the pistons that are stuck. You can damage the crank by trying to force it over.
Most likely the thing that's freezing the engine is the crud sticking the rings in place. If you can work the engine loose it shouldn't be too difficult to get it running again. Sugar is better than rust because it's not pitting the surfaces and it can be cleaned off the critical parts.
It might be worth pulling the heads, heating the engine with a space heater or heat gun to get it very warm to the touch and then pour a bit of boiling water on top of the pistons. Sugar is water soluble and the hot water might help soften the upper end of the stuff on the piston. A wood block close to the size of the piston set onto the piston head and some judicious whacking with a heavy hammer should get the pistons broken loose. If you can move them and clean up the cylinders with some 800 grit wet sandpaper used wet you may be able to free the engine. If you can get it turning spritz some WD40 in the cylinders to displace the water. Flush the engine with some fresh oil and filter and put it back together and see if it will run. I've resurrected a couple of GL1100 engines that had rust in the cylinders and were frozen solid. I used the hammer and wood block technique and was able to free up and clean out the corrosion. Both engines ended up with very good compression and ran well afterward.
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 2:30 am

thanx for the advice very informative will give it a try.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 3:50 am

A repair shop don't always want to spend the time on seized engine .Hot water in the cylinder head to soften thing up is a good way to start ,then blow the water out with air . then fill the cylinder with gunk or WD40 .Take a spark plug and find a pipe nipple and make a fitting and solder a air valve to it and screw it in the cylinder head that the piston is at the high end of the stroke and put some air and let the compress air do the work.Keep the engine warm with hair dryer. Rotate from one cylinder to the other .Things might loosen up .With the air pressure and mark the variator to see if you get any movement.
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Ishkatan
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 12:49 pm

My advice is to first find out who did it and why, then try to work things out with them so they don't do it again... i.e. fix the cause, then fix the symptoms... if possible.

Also, I had a seized chain saw so I took out the spark plug and let it sit figuring I would donate it for parts... well, I tried turning it the other day and it turned... So... my (not knowledgeable total WAG) thinking is fill the cylinder heads with oil and let them sit a few days.... maybe even try vibrating the engine with the oil in place (put it in the back of your car in a pan or wrap it and put it on top of some other engine like an outside air conditioner??) The oil and vibration might penetrate to break things loos - if the 2x4 pounding doesn't do it..
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 1:22 pm

If you're positive that the material is sugar then oil isn't going to do much since it's not soluble in water. It is soluble in alcohol so you could try pouring some 90% rubbing alcohol into th cylinders, Everclear would work too and you'd have it for consolation if all your efforts should fail to get things working again.
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Haakon
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 3:49 pm

Evil or Very Mad Wow is all I can say. I can see the benefit of having a locking oil cap to prevent this kind of crap. Its hard to believe that people can be so damn nasty and mess with your vehicle like that, that is just the lowest of the low in my book.

Good luck with the repair.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:19 pm

I doubt a locking oil cap is really necessary. I've been around 70 years and this is the first time I ever heard of anyone having anything dumped into their crankcase on any vehicle.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Mon May 27, 2013 10:58 am

Out of curiosity, how do you know it was sugar?
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Mon May 27, 2013 1:47 pm

I've been wondering the same thing after thinking about it a bit more. Sugar isn't soluable in gasoline the old stories of engines being destroyed by it is false. Sugar in the gas tank would be like sand and the only damage it would do there is possibly plugging up the fuel filter. Same thing with oil, the sugar won't dissolve in the stuff. It could plug up some oil galleries or some such just as sand in the crankcase could but it would also show up in the oil filter. In those cases it could damage bearings from lack of oil circulation but it shouldn't get into the cylinders or past the rings. Since sugar isn't as abrasive as sand (silica) is the only way it could damage much of anything would be from blocking oil flow. or jamming the oil pump. Something just doesn't ring true here, the problem may likely be something totally different.
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 30, 2013 12:50 am

mechanics at velocity powersports (near charleston) confirmed it, also sugar may not dissolve in oil or gas (no idea either way), but I do know that heat melts it. From what I understand thats what happened and it turned my oil to syrup and gunked the hell out of my engine. engine is slightly apart and I noticed a small pool of the oil\sugar mix had settled in a corner. I touched it to see just how syrupy it was, and it was hard as rock. Apparently whoever put it in there put ALOT in. I have already fixed the problem though. Wink I went out yesterday and picked up a sweet 09 yamaha V-star 650 custom with 1800 miles on it.
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 30, 2013 6:16 am

One way to find out- give it the ole taste test Wink
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu May 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Sounds more like sodium silicate/water solution used by car dealers to disable engines in the stupid "cash for clunkers" program.
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:32 am

They said it was so thick, you could pour it on your pancakes and would never know the difference. Only problem with a dealer putting it in there for a "clunker program" is it wasn't in the shop when it happened.
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andyman
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:44 pm

so what's going on with the old bike?  I'm in NC and have a spare engine sitting in my garage...
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Lordbal
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:48 pm

workin on it in my spare time, trying to free her up. other than that enjoying the new ride ;)not really looking for an engine atm, but I will keep that in mind thanks. Smile
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:40 pm

I have an engine with 7300 miles on it. I might be interested in your old bike as well.

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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:57 am

You would be amazed at what people can get up to for a laugh, exavid, like when I was working for Kawasaki Motorcycles in the 70's. One of the 1st 900 Z1's on the road was destroyed by oil tampering. Whether the owner upset someone or just jealousy or even someoneplaying funny bugger, the moron urinated  into the oil tank. You could smell it. It locked the motor up solid.

Unfortunately we could not do warranty, but we did heavily discount the engine that needed to be replaced.
I had some sweetish alchohol mix put into my tank at a party one night. The engine would start but not develop power. It was ok after a complete fuel change and carby cleanout, lucky it wasn't in the oil tank (2 stroker).
Smelt and tasted nice too, what a waste of good alcohol.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:19 pm

Indeed I am surprised, I've been around a long time but never knew anyone who'd had either engine oil or fuel tampered with. I have seen a couple cases of tires being spiked but that's about it.
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DerrillW
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:45 pm

That crow bar might be better used if applied to the nut who fouled your oil.
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Magoo Triker
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:37 pm

LOL Rage  applause 

Magoo Triker
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Musa2
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:17 am

I think exavid's words of a Judicious whacking with a heavy hammer were quite apt, and I tip my hat to you Sir Lordbal for not having done that already.

I'm often concerned about a young man who has mentioned more than once his propensity for putting sugar into peoples oil tanks. I lent the little peanut my bike before I worked out his true character and he crashed it and decided he would just not pay for it. Insurance has paid out against expectations, but because the insurance company is taking him for the amount (because he lied about being un-licenced) and he is often around my area ducking in the passenger seat of a car when I drive past, I am going to do the smart thing and dump the oil on my new bike immediately. I heard some young fellas talking and laughing outside my misus's house the other night which has prompted me to not ride my bike since, might have a small dose of paranoia but better safe than sorry.

The kid was an un-finished apprentice for a dealer which went bust for fraud, and your post is the first time I heard of the cash for clunkers scam so further thanks for your post Lordbal.
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LDB
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PostSubject: Re: someone put sugar in my oil!!!   Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:12 am

I realize this is an old thread but was the vandal ever caught? Hopefully made to pay both monetarily as well as physically and mentally?
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