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 2013 new scooter/bike purchase

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sat 09 Feb 2013, 09:05

I try/want to get new bike each year as it keeps life interesting---over 75 new purchases since 1955. This year put a lot of thought/study into it, end result blank based on what interests me or my location in relation to dealers.

Current scooter 2011 Burgman 400 purchased as left over, warranty out at end of month, 22,000 miles. Suzuki just paid for rear clutch bearing/front pulley/rollers/labor--stuff was just plain worn out, I paid for new belt as wear item, but I did get 20,000 miles from it.

So, some features I like: 4-way flashers, centerstand and side stand, 2 trip meters, reaonable tank range, lots of dealers in event of on road problems AND buffeting, what I don't want and seems to be feature of all Maxi scooters (I have had TMAX/ SilverWing/Reflex/2 Burgman 400's/4 Helix(still my favorite) I like and have had 4 Vespas....but no dealers in US...but they with right windshield look over can be buffet free! A fter near 300,000 miles with rubber band drive scooters I am getting tired of the hassle and expense of belt changes.
Little run down of what I shopped/test rode/thought about:

Silver Wing @ $7800-8200--Southern Honda 2012-2013, like the still silver wheels, black color not as safe as yellow would be----lack power plug/4-way flashers BUT can be made pretty BUFFET FREE--Givi Adjustable windshield, Baker Air Wings, Honda Wind Guard and homemade lower air deflectors. add Givi rack-----but all this is not turnkkey operation.

Vespa: old fart fun, expensive, no dealer network in N America. so I can forget it.

Burgman 400---fine, dull colors, price keeps going up. Buffet the life out of you, as bad as TMAX. So far have had GIVI adjustable shield, Laminar lip, Cut down Givi plain shield, currently 7JuRock shield and in last attempt a new Laminar Lip next week---I just want to ride down the road in wind comfort as BMW with Heinrich Fairing or lately my NT700V Honda.

AND now the big JOKE---test rode new BMW scooter, GT version=not so great, Kymco heart ( I can buy real Kymco much cheaper) My take heavy/big/sounds crappy/still buffeting SilverWing (inspite of old design) rides much better and sounds/feels better! Seat Height in the Enduro class. Having been BMW owner since 1958, I know they have built some real junk. Lack of dealers in US. Now final part of joke : they would trade for my bike and $9300!.

So I will ride my Burgman another 20,000 miles or so. Should it blow up/crash, I might also consider a 2013 Burgman 650 in white as replacement and expect at least 50,000 trouble free out of driveline. Or leftover SilverWing @$7800 Southern Honda.
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matthew
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sat 09 Feb 2013, 11:46

Sounds like in the final analysis you're still a Silverwing fan after all, John.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sat 09 Feb 2013, 11:52

FWIW if you don't like the belt change cost, avoid the Suzuki. Belt for the Silverwing 600 runs about 1/2 the cost of the Suzuki 400 belt cost. Suzuki parts are pricey. (Go check out common parts costs yourself if you don't believe it - I don't know of any part that is cheaper on the Suzuki).
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:30

First to go out and ride 300,000 miles on rubber band drive scooters-----end costs are about same---I have had TMAX/SilverWing/ReFlex/4 Helix (easiest to change belt and can be done roadside) Daelim in KOREA=no belt troubles. Any vehicle that requires replacement of vital piece of the final drive every 10,000-16,000 miles can get expensive. I use only OEM parts.
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robert
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sun 10 Feb 2013, 13:45

John,

Have you taken a look at the new Honda CTX700N DCT ABS=1.price 2.chain drive, no belt change 3. 17in. wheels, better stability 4. lower seat 5. more power, better mpg. Negatives=no windshield, less storage, little heavier.

Robert
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sun 10 Feb 2013, 15:31

Yes....but to get ABS you have to order that goofy dual clutch trans, center stand extra, really no weather protection, seat enduro high, end price more than SilverWing. Saddle bags/carrier/box not cheap. Madstad windshield @$300 or so.

I am sure with the reg transmission clutch arrangement, it is probably more reliable than scooter---screw and nut to adjust valves. I have good luck with open chains....and lots of oil---My GS500E Suzuki went 44,000 miles on original chain and sprockets---replacement chain with master link and sprockets about $100 from Dennis Kirk.

Wheels are dull black.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Sun 10 Feb 2013, 16:49

jmaslak wrote:
FWIW if you don't like the belt change cost, avoid the Suzuki. Belt for the Silverwing 600 runs about 1/2 the cost of the Suzuki 400 belt cost. Suzuki parts are pricey. (Go check out common parts costs yourself if you don't believe it - I don't know of any part that is cheaper on the Suzuki).

Cannot disagree with that statement at all.

My Burgman 400 was a pricey beast to keep going.

Belt - extortionate ££'s.
Speed sensor - several!!! Costly ££££££'s
Seat cable, pricey and a nightmare to change.
Headlight lamps blew for a hobby!
Some poor design problems which Suzuki were very rude about when informed!!!!
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Mon 11 Feb 2013, 07:57

robert wrote:
John,

Have you taken a look at the new Honda CTX700N DCT ABS=1.price 2.chain drive, no belt change 3. 17in. wheels, better stability 4. lower seat 5. more power, better mpg. Negatives=no windshield, less storage, little heavier.
Robert

Personally I don't care to ever have another chain driven street bike. Yes, I know they are cheap and more efficient BUT messy and in need of frequent adjustments plus they can break and strand you (what can't ?). Most street bikes have long since switched to belt or shaft drive.

I will stay with my "rubber band" thank you!!! Laughing
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Mon 11 Feb 2013, 09:59

In over 1.5 million 2 wheel miles.....only one chain break---spring '58, Maico Blizzard 250---as I recall Skinny Pierce Indian Sales got me on the way in Texas.------one belt break---early '90's VA----Helix---their advantage, belt could be changed on roadside, provided you had spare along and tools. Long range/ high miles, chains are cheaper and can be made to last at least twice as long as drive belts. Secret=lots of oil on open chains. I suppose for 5-10,000 miles a year rider it doesn't make much difference. One more on chains---most people tend to run them too tight....which speed wear on chains and sprockets. Quick wear parts are additional profit area for manufacturers and dealers---remember HD had chain case on their opposed twin in the '20's----but continued with open chains until the belts came along.....they even had chain oilers that worked....and rust proofed back of bike into at least the 60's----but they worked. Bean counter probably had them eliminated.

MZ's had wonderful chain case----chain would last forever, once you threw east German chain away, installed cheap Japanese chain and cleaned all of the "gloop" out a couple oof times a year. Any grease seemed to work.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Mon 11 Feb 2013, 10:11

I don't see why someone couldn't carry a spare Silver wing belt with them and do it on the side of the road. Like the Helix, you need something to hold the variator while you remove the outer face - two tools in a pinch once the cover is off (cover needs basic tools, variator needs a wrench and a variator holder). I need both tools to change the belt on my helix clone (I am not nearly strong enough to do it without tools, nor are most people I think). Don't know about the 650 Berg, but suspect someone with right tools and knowledge could do that one too, albeit maybe with more work involved from the looks of it.

But there are tons of bikes with no belt. You might want to look at a good shaft drive.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Mon 11 Feb 2013, 10:44

Experienced riders carry spare belts because as general rule dealers do not stock them-----then get real Helix facts straight....Honda Helix, drive belt can be changed by removing outer case, blocking rear pulley open with piece of wood---belt comes on and off----beginning with ReFlex and Silver Wing there isn't clearance for belt without front pulley removal.

Burgman 650 belt is not designed to be changed or wear out in normal use

Shaft drive---been BMW owner since 1958----Japanese do better job, my NT700V Honda worked fine----my Concurs, traded at 56,000 miles had no drive line related problems.

I prefer to go for another scooter.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 new scooter/bike purchase   Mon 11 Feb 2013, 11:21

john grinsel wrote:
Experienced riders carry spare belts because as general rule dealers do not stock them-----then get real Helix facts straight....Honda Helix, drive belt can be changed by removing outer case, blocking rear pulley open with piece of wood---belt comes on and off----

I read how how to change a Helix belt roadside in the Scoot-Tours newsletter, and for years afterwards I always carried a spare belt, a new hammer handle, and notes on how to change the belt. They were never needed and I've probably still got the hammer handle somewhere.
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