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 cornering a Silverwing

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rodenbach
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PostSubject: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 14:36

The (very nice, thanks !!!) new header picture has triggered me to open this tread.

On 'all' the pictures I've seen, Silverwings seem to corner at a quite modest angle. Since I 've only covered some 1500 Miles so far, and both my spine and wallet are quite fragile, I too have been cornering my SW very gently.

Has any of you experienced tarmac-scratching with the SW, and if so: what part of the bike is touching first?

On footrest-bikes I used to angle my foot out, to 'feel' when it was time to back-off on the throttle, on an scooter this is a bit more difficult...

I understand the Silverwing isn't made for racing, but I am very curious to learn from experience of others, how far it will lean.

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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:10

Never had my Wing over like my 400 Burgman. I could manage sparks from the centre stand on the Burgman when leaning it over especially a right turn but never been close with the Silver Wing. Don't know if it's a function of the shape of the Honda or if I ride more reservedly!!!!

Great cover pic by the way - what - where and who?
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SCTLVR
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:24

Don't know front rider but rear rider is Michael Rutter, race is Macau and Michael won this year. Fabulous stuff!
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rodenbach
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:41


Martin Jessopp on a Ducati 1198R during the 2011 Macau GP
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SCTLVR
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:49

I think that corner used to have an Armco barrier in the place of the wall in this picture.
There are some really fantastic photos of rider's leathers with streaks of paint on the shoulders from this corner.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:51

And I was referring to the Silver Wing rider at the top of the page!!!!!

Anyone on here?
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rodenbach
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 16:10

@Waspie:
as "usual", this topic is drifting off-course in a matter of seconds Wink
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Nowun
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 16:16

Yeah! Who's on the 'Wing in the woods?
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 16:18

Nowun wrote:
Yeah! Who's on the 'Wing in the woods?

That's what I wished I had said now.

Good man!
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 16:21

I have never scrap the canter stand ,and I do like doing curves as hard as I can ,and looking at my front and back tire there is about 1" that don't show any rubbing. The angle of the lower tupperware is similar to a crotch rocket.I would say there is more lean then a street cruiser,an less then a crotch rocket .With modified springs and less flexing,ho knows,It is still a scooter and I love it. motorcycle
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 16:33

The center stand will scrape before anything else. I found that the left side is more likely to scrape as I only had the right side scrape a few times.

I have a great set of curves on my way to work that are posted for 25 mph, but my goal each time is to exit each at 55mph.

http://goo.gl/maps/XQcPp

The Silverwing was a bit more of a sled through this set of curves. The Goldwing is making me consider bumping up to 60 mph as an exit speed. Like Rodenbach, I use my toes to feel the danger zone.
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acworthpatrick
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 19:35

Nowun wrote:
Yeah! Who's on the 'Wing in the woods?

That is my friend Michael on his Silverwing a few months ago. We were together on a weekend trip, picture was taken on the dragon.
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acworthpatrick
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Thu 06 Dec 2012, 19:35

Awesome Picture by the way, I'll let him know its up there.
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Nowun
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 07 Dec 2012, 15:10

Is that your front wheel appearing from behind the tree?
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The Scootist
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 07 Dec 2012, 17:08

The first thing to touch down on a Swing is the center stand but you need to be leaning over pretty far. On those few times I have scraped it I was riding fairly aggressively.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 07 Dec 2012, 17:45

Nowun wrote:
Is that your front wheel appearing from behind the tree?

Nope, I was in front of him and my wife was on the back of my Silverwing taking this picture.
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FLY_DMy
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 01 Jul 2016, 14:25



Not hard to scrape on the Dragon, riding a 'Wing...
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 01 Jul 2016, 21:53

I understand the Silverwing isn't made for racing, but I am very curious to learn from experience of others, how far it will lean.>>>>>> until you lose traction, so far I haven't.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Fri 01 Jul 2016, 22:27

I've scraped the center stand too during turns to the left when using a regular scooter
tire on the rear. But not while using the car tire... I think the slightly taller tire keeps
it up further away from the pavement. Still, it can lean over pretty good and stay stuck
to the road. I like it better this way; the scraping made me a little anxious.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sat 02 Jul 2016, 04:40

I was a bit concerned about angle of lean, at first, over time you learn to trust the angle you feel safe at. My last bike was a Deauville, and I was aware that, not being able to use your legs to angle over seemd very strange. I have had no problems on the Silver wing,but, I once leant too far over on my Burgman 400 and the centre stand scraped the ground throwing me in the air, not very high, I landed safely and kept control, but it reminded me I was not on the Silverwing.
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micbusathens
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sat 02 Jul 2016, 17:01

Center stand is a warning as for the leaning limit.But you do not have to lean that far to go fast.Try to lean yor body more than the sw to the inner of a curve as you press somehow at the same time your outer leg on the footrest ,nomatter where exactly.Looks like a dancing maneouver.Remember:Throttle position at steady or better ,at slightly accelerated.Never Never at closed
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sat 02 Jul 2016, 17:08

Once things start grounding out it can get messy I expect. Stands don't fold like footpegs. Most likey why I've still got about 10mm of unused tread on the rear boot!
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sat 02 Jul 2016, 17:14

If you insist to go further after the grounding..yes.But a simple touch wont be fatal.I've hear it many times.More at the left turns as a right hander.Left handers are better at the right ones
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sat 02 Jul 2016, 18:29

When I was in college, I tried showing my pinion how to attempt a 90° right turn. Well my Yamaha twin 100 didn't have folding foot pegs for the driver and it struck the ground so hard that it lifted both tires off of the ground and we both slid for about twenty feet. Good thing we didn't slide any further because there was a bus at the intersection and we would have slid under it. The palms of our hands were cut up from the loose gravel. We both had long jeans and our legs didn't suffer much. The funny thing is I was taking him to town to purchase some jeans. LOL. Never tried it again.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 08:52

I've been reading this topic and the similar one about letting it all hang out with some amusement. They're just another variation on the old blokes "blasting through the twisties" nonsense that occasionally appears on here. All these tall tales of stand scraping are a bit like the ones told by bikers at greasy spoons spouting on about how fast they ride to anyone that'll listen.  Wink

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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 11:29

Everyone has an opinion, some enjoy the thread, some enjoy poking fun at it, to each his own.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 12:55

i've been enjoying the thread too.But guess it's just not your thing Victor bom
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 13:51

steve_h80 wrote:
i've been enjoying the thread too.But guess it's just not your thing Victor bom

I've no idea who this Victor is unless you're naive enough to think I'm actually the fictional TV character that shares my surname. Having never met me it's fair to say you'll have about as much idea of what my thing is as I have to where the 'Durham Dales' are.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 17:50

The Durham Heritage Coast is truly a special place,  as is the Oregon Coast, where the most beautiful trees in world grow, some of which were saplings when Christ was born.


Last edited by FLY_DMy on Wed 06 Jul 2016, 11:42; edited 1 time in total
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Sun 03 Jul 2016, 18:55

I don't think there's anything truly special about that area of the Durham coast, I've ridden over that way a few times as I bought my 650 Burgman from a dealer in Horden. The heritage on that coast is from coal mining at Blackhall Colliery and Easington Colliery. The big hitters over that way for tourists are the cathedral city of Durham, and Hartlepool with the restored museum ship HMS Trincomalee. I also spent a weekend in that area last year with Mrs M, I recommend Gladys's Vintage Tearooms in Seaton Carew if you're ever up that way. Better still try a gin and tonic made with locally made Durham gin, it has subtle hints of pink peppercorns.

As for the Oregon Coast I was there a few years ago and believe me you can't compare the scenic splendour of Cannon Beach and the Pacific Ocean, with an area of industrialised North Sea coast over here.

... and a Happy 4th July to everyone. Smile
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 01:51

Getting back to the original subject the Silverwing has pretty decent ground clearance. Just like most bikes with a center stand, that's what hits the ground first. It isn't the lean angle that causes a bike to lose it's grip as much as it is when steel hits the road. That takes some weight and traction from the tire(s) and can cause a skid. On my GT if I turn the shock down to the lowest spring setting which does give a smoother ride I often hear the center stand touch down on the curves. I've replaced the two nubbins on the centerstand that are there protecting the stand and also turned up the shocks for a bit stiffer ride but more ground clearance. The same thing would work with the SW as well of course. I don't tend to have 'chicken strips' on the tires of my bikes, I like to have a bit of fun now and then even if I'm nearly as old as dirt.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 04:29

The original subject had nothing to do with the handling characteristics of the BMW C650 GT either.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 11:10

The real question is how much further will it go over if you remove the centre-stand; what then contacts the ground first; and when will removing the centre-stand start appearing as one of the common mods listed in forumites signatures? Wink

I don't know how far over a Silverwing will go (being quite new to it and a coward), but a couple of years ago I was at Cadwell Park motor racing circuit (quite narrow and winding, and a bit hilly) for a motorcycle handling course (I was on a ST1100 at the time).  We divided into groups according to our speed/ability.  In one of the fastest groups, among the sports bikes and a few tourers, was a Silverwing.  The sports bike riders were done up as you'd expect in matching leathers, riding with their backsides in the air and sliding side to side over their bikes as they thrashed through the challenging bends.  The Silverwing rider was, by contrast, looking very cool and relaxed riding sitting fairly upright, yet still maintaining the same impressive pace through the bends (significantly faster than me, certainly).

Now, I've no doubt that the sports bikes would have been able to easily overtake the 'Wing on the straights, but I couldn't see the straights from where I was standing, and the 'Wing seemed to be in pretty much the same place in the group after each lap.   I also don't doubt that at the limit the better handling of the sports bikes would have enabled them to be cornered faster, but in reality, even at the impressive pace they were doing they hadn't reached that point.

This was particularly clear when on one of the laps this group of bikes was hurtling into the set of bends where I stood, the sports bike riders doing their race hero impressions, and one of the instructors was coming up behind on a BMW GS 1200 or similar, catching them very fast through the bend, with only one hand on the bar and the other on his hip!  All of which goes to show, it seemed to me, is that the biggest limit on your cornering speeds is the skill of the rider.

So, smooth out your riding and plan your route through those bends, and the 'Wings centre stand should be little of a constraint.  [Note this is what I aspire to, not what I claim to have achieved!]
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 15:20

Meldrew wrote:
The original subject had nothing to do with the handling characteristics of the BMW C650 GT either.

Actually it does. Both scooters have much in common in handling. Having owned two SWs, a Bergman 650 and the GT I feel competent to compare their characteristics. All three have a tendency to drag their center stands when pushed hard, setting up the suspension to the maximum stiffness reduces that tendency. A lighter rider also benefits in the twisties since that reduces the CG of the scooter/rider combination and allows more speed for a given lean angle. It's easy to see when in a curve, lean downward and inward to the turn and the bike will reduce its lean angle noticeably if you keep the speed constant.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 17:38

You're talking rubbish, nothing has a tendency to drag on either a Silver Wing or the lardass Burgman 650. As I said earlier this topic is a rehashed version of that blasting through the twisties nonsense.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 19:24

Depends on the loadout and damping rate, I think the video clearly shows that bugger had issue with it.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Mon 04 Jul 2016, 19:49

MORE RUBBISH I stand by my statement. If the suspension is set up hard and rider weight is 110lbs there is very little chance the centerstand will touch down in a curve. If you happen to weigh around 200lbs it can and does if the suspension is set low. My B650 did it a few times, and both of my SWs did it.
As for gauging the angle with your toes, that works well on a motorcycle that has pegs but not so hot on floor boards like these scooters have. On cruiser motorcycles with floorboards they typically are a lot closer to the ground ala Harley, et al than on these scooters.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 08:36

As you say more rubbish, I weigh 190lb and use the book settings for tyre pressures and suspension settings for solo riding on all of the five maxi scooters I've owned. The only times I've altered setting are when I've had Mrs M on board. I've occasionally ridden solo on the rider/passenger settings and apart from a firmer ride,nothing. It maybe simply that I know I'm riding a maxi scooter in the feet forward position, not pretending I'm some multi coloured Power Ranger on a sports bike. In the real world hero blobs, chicken strips, metal grinding etc are nothing but a load of nonsense talked by riders with small willies who think they're a lot better riders than they actually are.

Tomorrow I'm going to make a point of checking the centre/main stands of any bikes and maxi scooters I see parked up, and look at bikes/scooters in local dealers showrooms for scrapes and ground off metal, just to see how common this is.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 13:38

@ exavid

You simply reiterated (repeated) my last comment.

But to further explain why this condition is manefested:

Loadout = weight related to rider, passenger, gear, where that gear is positioned, and even fuel level to some degree.

Shock Absorber Damping rate = How quickly a spring absorbs and releases energy (directly influenced by the afore mentioned weight componemt)

So if a 200+ lb rider, with a 200+ lb passenger, at an impromper spring and/or damping rate for this loadout (or possibly not improper), will most assuredly result in dragging some metal.

So how is it that when I state this (rather elliquently, I might add), it is considered "Rubish", but when you say the same thing:

"If you happen to weigh around 200lbs it can and does if the suspension is set low. My B650 did it a few times, and both of my SWs did it."

It is not?

That is the eppidemy of Rubbish!
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 13:50

"Tomorrow I'm going to make a point of checking the centre/main stands of any bikes and maxi scooters I see parked up, and look at bikes/scooters in local dealers showrooms for scrapes and ground off metal, just to see how common this is."

I'm not at all sure why this point would be of such importance, but if that is how you want to spend your day, then by all means knock yourself out...
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 14:00

FlY DMy  Yes I did reiterate your post and did not gainsay your previous post, instead I was adding what occurred to me with four different maxi scooters. Center stands will occasionally scrape. That's a fact. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate merely stated facts.

The 'MORE RUBBISH' was sarcasm aimed at Meldrew since he called my post Rubbish. I posted more of what he calls rubbish. As a citizen of North America the term, "rubbish" is not a common one in my vocabulary as most of us would say, "garbage" or "trash"


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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 14:04

Ah, my bad... thx for the clarification: )
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 14:09

I'd also say your video riding two up on the dragon pretty well proves the point. You'd be able to make a bit more speed around the curves without a passenger but if pushed the center stand will drag riding solo as well at least if the suspension isn't cranked up for maximum load.
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 15:59

All said and done though I'm amazed how much fun can be had on a sw through the twisties. Not at all what I expected... but I'm not complaining :-)
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vmaximus
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PostSubject: cornering a Silverwing.   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 20:58

I fail to see the importance of this topic, surly there are too many things to consider, road condition, camber, tyres, correct tyre pressure and more importantly the riders ability. I stopped doing the kids stuff years ago and am quite content to get from A to B in my own time and arrive safely but each to his own if that's what floats your boat do it. On a lighter note isn't the twisties a 60's song/dance by Chubby Checker.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 21:08

I am with Meldrew on this subject matter. These types of threads go to who has the biggest hands.

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FLY_DMy
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 23:10

Everyone has different abilities, and different riding styles, I won't knock anyone for pushing the limits, or trying new things (within their skillset or ability).

Guess when you've been riding for over fifty years, for pleasure, for a living, etc. pressing the limits are more common place, than for some. Ability, Experience, and Confidence, not a matter of Hand or Willie size (both are big, btw).

I always chuckle at how some gravitate to these threads, when they really aren't for thwm in the first place.

Well done always trumps well said.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Tue 05 Jul 2016, 23:49

I'm not claiming to be a champion rider but in the sixty years of so I've been riding I've done dirt track, scrambling, cross country and a week bit of moto cross which told me I'm too old now for that. I don't think there's a better kind of training to build confidence in cornering than on dirt. I used to have a little Hodaka Ace 90 that was a great learning tool. You could skid it around an dirt and not worry about hurting youself or the bike very much. It sure helped to develop the skills to keep the rear wheel spinning to prevent being high sided, powering out of a slide and such. Admittedly it wasn't much use for highway riding but it does get the right instincts to know what to do when the rear wheel kicks out a bit on water or sand.

My point is that what's fun for some of us isn't for others. The only reason to ride two wheeled vehicles is for the fun of it. People who do it to save money are kidding themselves if they buy maxi scooters.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Wed 06 Jul 2016, 04:40

It's three years ago today I dropped my Silverwing in a ford - on my leg!

'Honda, the Power of Wet Dreams'. Razz
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: cornering a Silverwing   Wed 06 Jul 2016, 05:53

I had a look at the main stands on three used Burgman 650's in York Suzuki Centre less than a hour ago, no scrapes or ground off metal to report.
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