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 long term high speed

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scooterboyz
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PostSubject: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 19:51

I recently purchased a 2002 S'wing
with 27k on the speedo. This after 50cc that I blew up and rebuilt as a 72cc and also blew up. After that I purchased a 150cc and blew that engine. Rebuilt the 150cc and blew it up again. Rebuilt it as 172cc high lift cam and performance exhaust rocket and guess what?................. nope, i sold it and bought a Jonway Expressway 250cc. 4 weeks later I totaled it. Took the insurance money and bought an AN400 Burgman and ran the absolute hell out of it, back and forth from New Haven CT to Atlantic City NJ at 90 to 100 mph ( DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!! ) With bike topping out at 105mph. I rode like that regularly and of course BLEW UP THE ENGINE. Are we noticing a pattern here? My question here is, is there anyone else out there who absolutely pushes there engine very regularly and for long stretches? Is there a synthetic oil approved for higher performance in the wing and just how much of an rpm drop do heavier sliders provide?@ say 22/24/28 grams. Which performance clutch is best for S'wing


NOTE FROM MOD DAN: MOVED TO PROPER FORUM
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DarthJ
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 20:07

Were you using the recommended oil change intervals or were you changing it more frequently. Best recommendation for a motorcycle would be to take the manufacturer's recommendation and cut it in half.
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scooterboyz
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 20:21

yeah, I actually changed the oil in the 400burgman every two weeks using mobile 1 4t 10w-40. This was just a matter of practice as I knew I was beating on it!
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 21:12

I can't tell you about regularly.
But I did drive from Miami to Knoxville virtually straight thru and at a constant speed...lets just say "above 80 mph."

Can't say I beat it up completely, but the Silverwing takes alot. I don't think I've ever heard of one blowing up on somebody, and I've been on the Silverwing boards since around 2004.

There have been a few people who have increased the cc by 50, and a university that turbocharged the silverwing engine for a snowmobile. Never heard that either of them blew the engine.

You might want to add the leo vince exhaust and power commander for another 5-6 horsepower and vastly improved response.

Dan
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scooterboyz
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 21:39

how do power commanders work? are they permanent mount or plug,program, unplug?
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 22:49

Power commander is a permanent mount and it adjusts the fuel/air ratio.
You can customize the ratio very precisely over the entire power band.
You can plug them into your PC via USB and use their sofware to change the map as you see fit. You can also take it to a PC tuning center and have it custom mapped.

Dan
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scooterboyz
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 22:56

thanks a lot for that lead. I'm very technically inclined and could probly go through alone, but I'm not sure which end of the powerband I should be running toward lean or rich and vice versa. much of a performance increase do you actually reallize. is there a gain/loss in horsepower or torque?
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 02 Nov 2012, 23:07

Most engines not properly tuned bog down at a certain point in the powerband because they are to lean/rich. Thus lack of smooth acceleration.
PC will give you constant smooth acceleration 0 to 110 or whatever your bike will do. Its the exhaust that will change the HP. and the variator that changes the response. You should check out the charts in my album. Link in my sig.

Dan
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sat 03 Nov 2012, 02:40

This seems appropriate here!

A police officer pulled over two nuns riding on a motorcycle, and said to the rider, 'Ma'am, you're driving much too slowly, could you please drive faster?"
And the nun says, 'Oh, I saw the sign with the "21" and assumed the speed limit was 21 km/h"
The officer explains: 'No ma'am, the speed limit is 80. The highway number is Interstate 21."
Then the police officer look at the passenger and see the other nun shaking like a leaf.
"Excuse me sister, but what's wrong with your passenger?"
"Oh, that's probably because we just got off Highway 205."


Last edited by KurtPerthWA on Sat 03 Nov 2012, 07:29; edited 1 time in total
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sat 03 Nov 2012, 07:09

KurtPerthWA wrote:

This sees appropriate here!

A police officer pulled over two nuns riding on a motorcycle, and said to the rider, 'Ma'am, you're driving much too slowly, could you please drive faster?"
And the nun says, 'Oh, I saw the sign with the "21" and assumed the speed limit was 21 km/h"
The officer explains: 'No ma'am, the speed limit is 80. The highway number is Interstate 21."
Then the police officer look at the passenger and see the other nun shaking like a leaf.
"Excuse me sister, but what's wrong with your passenger?"
"Oh, that's probably because we just got off Highway 205."

Used that one on the I-95 in days of yor! Got away with it. Told a few friends the story and they tried it a few years ago when on holiday!!!!

Oooooops!!! Evil or Very Mad The cops must have got wise to that one!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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http://www.facebook.com/Waspie41
scooterboyz
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:14

Believe me, I get your point. You can bet your bottom dollar the when I hit the ripe age of retirement, I will have long quenched my thirst and need for speed and thrill of a good ride with like minded friends. But right now I have a wonderfully OVER ENGINEERED, SUPER THOUGHTOUT 2002 SILVERWING. KEEP HONDA'S record of scooter build quality in mind ( lets think Helix, which had a model run of almost if not more than 20 years without change ). '02 wing was the first and has remained virtually unchanged for 10, going on 11 eleven years. That said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to reallise that aftermarket performance parts manufacturers would notice this and thus go to work on improving existing parts that have not changed. Any quality company knows that they would have OVER ENGINEER any part that they would want to sell the owners of the best built scooter ( bar none! ) I reside in New Haven CT and commute to Atlantic City NJ quite often via I-95. traffic is always moving at or usually above 90mph, Semi's and Busses included. Going fast is not something we IMAGINEERS in this region take lightly, as it is a matter of survival on the road. Hell, rain only slows us down to 80mph. Thats just the way it is here on the highways. We have to make a day of it to go find new country roads to just ride and Relax! all that blah blah blah said, put yourself in the shoes I scoot in everyday, car, trucks, and busses running down on you, not noticing you ( or the excessive amount of reflective gear you're wearing ) all the while TEXTING, TALKING, AND NOT FOCUSSING! WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE MORE POWER OR LESS? WOULD YOU RATHER BE BEHIND THESE MORONS OR IN FRONT OF THEM with a clear unobstructed view? But remember it takes power and speed to stay to stay ahead of nonsense. Or you can just wait for something to happen in front of you.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sun 04 Nov 2012, 16:08

First with scooters, whether SilverWing or Burgman 400 buy them new and stay out of redline and they will run trouble free. I have had both new.----Now on speed----get a fast motorcyle to run with the big boys, works better.

I lived in Germany 20 years, know a little about going fast----my take we really don't go fast in the US---most US riders would fill their pants trying to keep up in Germany.

Joys of a scooter are more than riding fast or trying to keep up. My last years in Germany had to go 120mph in slow lane to keep from getting run over on way to work----my Concours would not go any faster. To be fast lane material you need to be able to run 125mph and accelerate up from that speed. My BMW RT 80 spent its life in the slow lane...as it was not really very fast by German standards.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sun 04 Nov 2012, 17:14

I don't know how you had to go 120 mph in the 'slow' lane' on German autobahns because most of the week they are full of heavy goods vehicles (semis) usually doing no more than 60-70 mph. Trucks from Eastern Europe, the Baltic States, and Turkey are very common now, and occasionally it'll be military vehicles.

I'll quite happily find a clear spot and cruise there at 70mph but there'll always be another articulated truck or even up to a dozen or more to overtake within a few of miles. In the rain these trucks kick up plenty of spray so you need to get past them quickly. (At weekends it's another type of convoy, caravans, motorhomes, and horseboxes.)

Pull out into the centre lane to overtake a slow moving truck and sooner or late there's another one in front of you and he's overtaking a slower moving truck too and this might take a few minutes to complete the manoeuvre before going back into the inside lane.

You can of course go into the outside lane to overtake the two slower vehicles but inevitably there'll be big fast car bearing down on you with it's headlights flashing for you to get the hell out of the way.

Also a lot of autobahns only have two lanes, and it's quite common on either three or two lane autobahns to have all traffic mysteriously slow down to a crawl for perhaps 10-15 miles before speeding up again and you've no idea what caused the hold up. I'm sure filtering is illegal but bikes do it anyway, most truck and car drivers are fine and give you space but you do get the odd pissed off driver who'll deliberately try to block you and use the horn.

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rodenbach
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sun 04 Nov 2012, 18:20

What's the point of different rollers and/or clutch if the scooter is mainly used on highways, where the engine has to run at constant (high) speeds???
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Sun 04 Nov 2012, 21:38

rodenbach wrote:
What's the point of different rollers and/or clutch if the scooter is mainly used on highways, where the engine has to run at constant (high) speeds???

Laughing Laughing
I think it's because getting to those high speeds is "half-the- fun" Exclamation Exclamation
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 05 Nov 2012, 11:16

In the EU there are noise and emissions tests on new vehicles which are standardised. i think that this is why many engines 'bog down' at certain points in their performance, it is at the points where the ECU has been programmed to 'conform' to the rules regardless of how it affects performance.
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acworthpatrick
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 06:58

I have a Silverwing I've made plenty of 900 mile round trips on at speeds between 70 an 80 the whole way, but never run it as hard as you ran yours.

Maybe my other bike might be a better fit for you, I just recently purchased an Aprilia Mana 850GT that would have no trouble taking 90mph all day long and then some. I doubt the Honda would give any trouble with doing that either, but you'd be running it close to max all the time. Speed limit everywhere I've been is 70mph max so I don't see where your going that fast anyway unless your just speeding all the time.
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rodenbach
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 07:29

Speed limit in France is 130 kph (82mph). When riding in the fast lane, at an indicated 140kph (88mph) my SW has plenty enough reserve to overtake if necessary. In these short bursts the speedo reaches 160 kph (100mph) before you know. At this speed (a 'ton'), the engine runs at 8000 rpm, still 500 rpm off the red zone...
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acworthpatrick
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 07:41

I just don't see how running any vehicle at or near the redline all the time is going to help it last very long. But I could be wrong. I mean occasionally is one thing, but everyday I wouldn't want to do it to my Silverwing.
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rodenbach
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 09:06

The fjs600 has it's maximum torque (54Nm/40 lb-ft ) @5500 rpm, this is the speed where the engine is at it's most efficient. On my Swing, this means 110 kph (69 mph).

With a Bore & Stroke of 72 x 71.5mm, the average piston speed @5500rpm is 43 ft/sec or 2580 ft/min (13.1 m/sec), which is quite moderate, compared to other motorcycle or even car engines.

With the engine running at 7000 rpm (=90 mph), the pistons reach an average speed of 54 ft/sec or 3284 ft/min (16.1 m/sec). That is still a relatively low speed for a motorbike engine, considering it has got liquid cooling.

For many decades OEM engine designers considered 3500 ft/min (17.8 m/s) to be the threshold.

So i.m.h.o. a constant 90 mph (140 kph) on the clock will not dramatically shorten the Swing's engine life.

In fact, I dare to state that any engine suffers a lot more from cold starts (and over-revving a cold engine), than of running it at steady (relatively) high revolutions.
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SCTLVR
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 19:41

I very much agree with Rodenbach regarding piston speed as a primary determinent of engine stress and life. The engine vibrates more at higher speeds but I don't see any reason to fear early mortality and I agree that cold running is a real enemy of long engine life.
Road ~145 miles (~230 KM) today, much at an indicated 80 - 90 MPH. Checked oil level and condition at the end of the ride and with 2,600 miles (4,160 KM) the synthetic oil is still very clean and the crankcase is full. I'm very impressed with this engine, less with the drivetrain vibrations at starts. Even less with all the noise from the front of the 'bike over different road surfaces. Going to test the fender (mud guard) to see if it is the source of much of this unwanted racket.
Great bike!
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scooterboyz
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Mon 12 Nov 2012, 20:30

THANKS FOR THE INFO PEOPLE. I START MY BIKE AT THE START OF MY CUP OF COFFEE AND HALF WAY THROUGH PUTTING ON COLD WEATHER GEAR. IT DOES'T MOVE UNTIL AFTER THE COFFEE OR IT HAS THREE BARS ON THE THERMO GAUGE, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. BEEN CONSIDERING AMSOIL SYNTHETIC FOR MY WING. ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT AND IS IT WORTH THE EXTRA CASH?. LIKE I SAID , I'M HARD CHARGING AND I KNOW I NEED AND AM WILLING TO PAY FOR THE BEST.
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alloo
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:34

Maybe you should be riding a motorcycle and not a scooter?
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SCTLVR
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:52

The Swing is a nice compromise between a sportbike and heavy hauler. It doesn't handle too badly and the brakes are good, especially with ABS.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Tue 13 Nov 2012, 14:41

scooterboyz wrote:
THANKS FOR THE INFO PEOPLE. I START MY BIKE AT THE START OF MY CUP OF COFFEE AND HALF WAY THROUGH PUTTING ON COLD WEATHER GEAR. IT DOES'T MOVE UNTIL AFTER THE COFFEE OR IT HAS THREE BARS ON THE THERMO GAUGE, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. BEEN CONSIDERING AMSOIL SYNTHETIC FOR MY WING. ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT AND IS IT WORTH THE EXTRA CASH?. LIKE I SAID , I'M HARD CHARGING AND I KNOW I NEED AND AM WILLING TO PAY FOR THE BEST.

They used to do that 'warming the engine up' ritual when I was in the BMW Club, a group of blokes going out on a ride spending anything up to 5 minutes sitting there with the engine idling or gently blipping the throttle before moving off.

I bet when they're back at home using the car they'd have started up and moved off straight away.

Another strange ritual is using the lower case letters on the keyboard, once you've tried it you're hooked! Wink
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Wed 14 Nov 2012, 00:34

At least I can read it easily, Junior!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 19 Feb 2016, 10:58

Tire failure posts have been split off to a new topic.

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 19 Feb 2016, 20:29

SCTLVR wrote:
...Even less with all the noise from the front of the 'bike over different road surfaces.  Going to test the fender (mud guard) to see if it is the source of much of this unwanted racket.
Great bike!...

Take a look at the fender mounting bolts. My first SW rattled because someone installed regular screws in the fender instead of the proper shouldered ones. A friend of mine bought a low mileage SW last year that had a rattle up front. Two missing bolts were the cause.

One other cause of rattles is that air scoop in front of the windshield. Often people break off the little tabs that hold it down. The easiest way to check that is to tape it down on each side and see if that makes a change in the noise.
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Art
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PostSubject: Re: long term high speed   Fri 19 Feb 2016, 22:45

I start the bike and start riding gently, the engine will warm up faster that way and gets less cold running time
these are modern fuel injected engines with modern oil, not 27 T buckets running nearly straight crude and primitive gasoline through a crude carburettor
on some bikes, the oiling system is so under pressured at low idle as to be potentially damaging
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