First, a disclaimer: I know Amsoil is an MLM. I consider such marketing system to be pyramid schemes, pure and simple. I don't sell Amsoil. I will never sell Amsoil. I'll use my "preferred customer discount" ($12 per year membership fee) to buy product at cost for friends and family, if they ask, but I will NEVER make a single penny on any transaction. I want to make sure my opinions on the subject aren't tainted, and I also find MLMs to be distasteful.

That being said, I've been a big believer in Amsoil for years. So that's the first place I looked when I needed oil for the SWing.

Honda recommends a motorcycle oil designed for a wet clutch. One without "friction modifiers." WHY, I have no idea. Does the SWing even have a wet clutch?

Anyway, I chose the Amsoil 10w30 motorcycle oil, and an Amsoil EAo oil filter.

Amsoil's synthetic was the first synthetic motor oil for consumers available in the market. The company founder, Al Amatuzo, was a jet fighter pilot int the late 1950s. He became interested in synthetics because they were the oily type of oil that could survive in the jet engines. He developed synthetics for use in automobiles, and introduced his first product in 1972.

There are many different types of base stocks that are considered "synthetic." And there are new methods for processing natural petroleum base stocks that allow them to approach, though not quite equal, the performance of true synthetics. Castrol introduced one, and they were famously sued by Mobil for using the word "synthetic." Catrol won. Now, even Mobil is known to use "synthetic" to describe hydro-processed petroleum base stocks.

The most stable and molecularly "perfect" base stock is called PAO: Poly-Aromatic Olephins. No, I don't know what that means, exactly. I do know it's expensive, difficult to produce, and is becoming increasingly rare in the marketplace as other processes can almost (but not quite) equal the performance of PAO base stocks.

As far as I know, NO oil is 100% PAO. For reasons that are obscure to me due to big words and tribologist lingo you don't want 100% PAO. It's usually mixed with "organic ester" synthetic stock. But the two manufacturers that use the highest percentage of PAO are Amsoil and Redline. Most others use little or no PAO stocks.

Amsoil also uses a high quality custom additives package that is made for them by one of the big additives manufacturers. (No motor oil company makes its own additives. They contract with somebody else. There are only two or three major additives makers.) Amsoil goes for a high initial TBN: "Total Base Number." This describes the initial alkalinity of the oil and its ability to neutralize the acidic, sludge-forming byproducts of combustion.

As for the filters: I've seen a few comparisons of motorcycle oil filters in which somebody cut apart and directly compared the guts of various brands. The ones with the highest quality filter media and the best engineered filters overall were the Amsoil EAo series and the Purolator "Pure One" premium filters.

So that's what I base my choice upon. The Amsoil has excellent cold flow properties. The synthetic stock actually achieves the 10w30 spec with little or no viscosity index modifiers added, which is a good thing since VI modifiers don't actually lubricate anything. It pours like water when cold, so you get almost instant start-up lubrication. But it stays in grade at extremly high temperatures, too, long after a petroleum product would thin out.

One myth: Motor oil does not suffer from "viscosity breakdown" unless it's overheated severely. Think about the process that created petroleum in the first place: Billions of years at high temperature and extreme pressure, with plates of rock grinding against each other. Is your puny little motorcycle going to "break down" the molecular structure? Of course not. It IS possible to wreck oil by overheating it, but in normal use that will never happen. Synthetics do tolerate much higher temps without breaking down, though.

You don't change your oil because it "wears out." It will NEVER "wear out" in normal use. You change it because it becomes contaminated with physical or chemical contaminants. Physical: "Dirt". Stuff that mechanically grinds away at engine parts. Chemical: Mostly combustion byproducts reacted chemically with water. Your oil's additives package can effectively neutralize the chemical impurities up to a point. You count on your filters to remove the mechanical "scratchy stuff."

I don't personally recommend a K&N or similar metal mesh filter. Yes, they flow better. They do so because they let in more dirt. Unless you're racing, what's the point?

Amsoil makes a re-useable filter called the "EA series" that is made of synthetic microfibers. It's supposed to flow as well, or slightly better than, a stock paper filter. And it's supposed to filter MUCH more efficiently, especially at the "tiny" end of the spectrum. However, there is no SWing air filter in their catalog. They say motorcycle filters are highly variable and you have to get the measurements of your specific filter for them to match up. They probably have one available. If not, Purolator and Hastings make good ones. The stock Honda filter is good quality. (You can never go entirely wrong with Honda stuff.)

Hi Guys,

I also am running Amsoil I used only Amsoil 20-50 in my Harley Davidson, and it ran quieter and cooler, but now I am going to use it in my Swiing. I ordered a case which should last for about 4 years. My quesiton how big is the difference between 10-30w and 10-40w. I orded the 10-40 scooter oil because it has the MA rating and the 10-30 does not. I live in Wisconsin so heat is not a factor for me Highs in the 70's and 80's. I will be riding in 40 degree weather but any lower than 40 I will put the scooter up till spring. I really think I should be OK let me know if this sounds OK to you guys? Thanks

Here's a link to some interesting oil information:

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

Hi Exavid, Are you saying you are using Mobil 1 auto oil in your Swing?

I'm still trying to figure out why Honda recommends a wet clutch-type oil for the SW when it has no wet clutch. I suspect it's just standard boilerplate in all their manuals because most of their bikes have traditionally had wet clutches, and nobody at Honda has looked at the language recently.

Friction modifiers aren't good for wet clutches, but they ARE good for fuel economy. And, logically, good for engines.

Oddly enough, most manufacturers of light aircraft engines, including Lycoming and Continental, specifically forbid the use of synthetic oils. (They do allow "blends".) I've heard various theories as to why. The most popular theory is that synthetics don't "stick" to engine parts after shutdown, and since most airplanes spend most of their time sitting in the hangar that leaves engine parts exposed to corrosion. That same warning, then, would SEEM to apply to motorcycles that spend a lot of time sitting in the winter. I've never heard of any problems with motorcycles and synthetics, though.

I've also heard that synthetic oils don't get along with tetraethyl lead, which is still used in avgas. (LOTS of lead!)

Anyway, it's obviously a good idea to start your bike and let it warm up at least once a week during the off season, regardless of what kind of oil you use.

I called Amsoil to try and change my order from the 10w-40 to 10W-30 and I was not happen with the service I received. The women was not very nice which is fine if that is the type of people Amsoil wants working for them. Not only was the women not nice, but AMSIOL wanted another $40.00 to change from the 10W-40 to 10W-30 so my order would have went from $104.00 to $144.00 and that does not make any cents at all... At this price range I expect the best service and oil no questions asked... I was going to call them this evening and cancel my order, but the order had been shipped UPS. So I will use the Amsoil that is being sent to me 10W-40 scooter oil, and then I will never use Amsoil again. If the service is not right then the item can't be right this is my opinion only. Thanks for listing I needed to blow off some steam... I may just stay with Honda products. I ordered 4 filters from honda without any problem.... The filters will arrive on Friday that would be three days.... very fast shipping.

An engine that's being laid up for winter or a lengthy storage period shouldn't be run up periodically. The problem is it's difficult to get the whole engine up to operating temperature. If the water in the oil isn't driven out as water vapor it will only increase the amount of condensation inside the engine. More water inside the engine isn't a good thing, more water, more corrosion. Far better to put fresh, clean oil in just before laying up. Spraying some fogging oil into the cylinders is a good idea if the engine is to be laid up for a long time. If you're worrying about oil leaving the metal internal surfaces crank the engine from time to time without starting it. That will circulate oil but not cause heat which brings condensation. Never cover a vehicle unless there's ventilation at the top of the cover so it won't trap water vapor which is lighter than air. There should be a water proof barrier under the vehicle to reduce water vapor collecting on the undersides of the various surfaces. The battery should either be put on a tender or taken out and stored in a cool but not freezing place. I spent many years in the Eskimo village of Kotzebue where we stored our boats for 8-9 months per year depending on ice conditions. I've never had any problems with my outboards, or any other engines I've had to store during the long winter.

That is really great information I have one more point to add. You should not run your motor during the winter months in Wisconsin because the temp will go down to 30 below and the water vapor will freeze causing the engine to plug. If you start the engine oil will not go through the motor, and you can cause major damage to the inter motor parts. I learned that from my Harley. Most people keep there cycles in a heated garage or stored at the dealer. I will keep my scooter in a unheated garage and wait till spring to change the oil before I try and start the motor.

A good proof of the water that condenses in an engine is when you start an engine in very cold subzero temperatures and it quits. If it ran for a minute or two and quit it's often impossible to restart unless the plugs are removed and dried. I've seen ice on the business ends of the plugs under those conditions. It's not really a good idea to start the bike up once a week unless you can take it out on the road to get it fully heated up. Even then there's more chance of corrosion due to the combustion byproducts you'll introduce into the oil. With fresh oil in the engine and allowing it to sit there will be less corrosion. Check most manufacturers recommendations for storage of various vehicles.

im glad i stumbled onto this thread cause i had seen amsoil in my local scooter shop and i want to buy from there cause i try to support local bussiness when possible. i ride my bike in the winter but winter here rarely gets below the 40s. i wasnt sure if we could use synthetic oil in the swing or not but now i can get some for my first oil change in a few more thousand miles.

A lot of guys use Rotella T6 synthetic which is 5W-40 in bikes of all sizes.
Its rated Jaso/MA and is much cheaper than "motorcycle" oil.
Get it at any Walmart. I'm a big fan of Amsoil, particularly in cars, but with the shorter change intervals in bikes and scooters, I think its a waste. However, this depends on your wallet and what makes you feel good. I'm using it in mine and plan on changes every 4K along with a Supertech filter.

If you want to read about oils and filters heres a good forum:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

I usually use synethic oil that is a name brand, but I don't go overboard anymore. Rotella, Shell, Penzoil is good enough for me now. It seems the SWing is so smooth and dependable it could almost run on water.

I did try Royal Purple once and it seemed that I had to keep topping it off. It is the only oil where it seemed I must have been burning oil. I change my oil every 3,000-4,000 miles, since it only requires 2.25 quarts, but I had to top my oil off about 4 times and just ended up changing it. I heard good things about it but it didn't work for me at all.

Since 1990----most of my two wheel miles in the US have been on WalMart House Brand Oil---whether bike or scooter. We 're talking of at least 400,000 miles All = no engine trouble, Helix(4), Reflex, SilverWing, TMAX, NT700, K-75, Concours, Burgman 400(2) and some I may have forgotten---plus 2 Miatas. 2 new CB750 who were worked hard, and now that I think of it, my GS500E Suzuki, 64,000 miles in 15 months

But I use bike a lot, change at 2,000 miles, Filter at 4,000....if there is filter.

Have to admit, was jug of Rottela 15-40 real oil on shelf for first change on new Burgman, used it because it was there.....when it is gone, probably back to WalMart house brand reg oil. Doesn't make sense to me to pay $8 a qt for oil.

I don't keep bikes/scooters long----50,000 miles on one bike is high for me. This is my hobby and keeps me active, even in the south between dirty toliets, bad food and idiot drivers. Having new/fresh bike in garage is still real thrill for me...trying to figure it out. I make few mods except trying to get handle on air/wind management.

My 2 cents worth-----Once did published test of various oils in Helix, including Syn-----over measured course, no performance difference. No mpg difference noticed, also.

Important to me change, get the crud out, oil changes color as it is holding junk in suspension. Or?

I used to swear by Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Both were "real" PAO-based synthetic oils, not just highly refined or hydro-cracked dino oil. The difference is significant enough that the hydro-cracked oil is in Group III and the PAO based oils are in Group IV. In Europe, only Group IV oils can be sold as "full synthetic" oil.

Anymore though, Mobil 1 won't tell you what their base stock is. It appears they've gone the way that other companies like Castrol, Pennzoil, etc and just sell highly refined dino oil as the real thing...for the same higher price.

I was able to get Amsoil for a very reasonable price, till the local store went out of business. I did some research on the Bob is the Oil Guy forum and many people there swear by diesel oils. The rationale is that diesel engines in big rigs go extreme mileages between oil changes and cost a fortune. Owners don't go with the latest trend, or how pretty the bottle looks when they pick their oil. They go with what works.

So I've been picking up Delo 5W-40 "synthetic" oil from Costco. The cost when I picked up the last container was only about $21 for a gallon. With the latest prices of crude oil, it has gone up.

Chris

I too have leaned to "diesel" oils. On the KLR forums they highly recommend Rotella 15W-40. I have been using it w/o incident. I used to use Rotella 5W-40 full synthetic, a gallon at Walmart is fairly reasonable. I may switch back to that on the SWing! Probably first oil change I will use what Honda wants.

My 2 cents====based on about 500,000 miles of Honda/Kawasaki/BMW/Suzuki use since 1990----I have found WalMart house brand 10-40 works fine. I change at 2,000 mile intervals or 60 days which ever comes first. Filter everyother change. My two Miatas, one used, one new worked well on this oil. Highest mileage on one bike=64,000 miles on my GS-500E Suzuki in 15 months. No engine trouble and lots of hard use.

SilverWing works fine on it.

My newest Burgman, I am trying Shell Rotella 15-40 because of the MA rating....but gee, my scooter oil does not share engine/clutch/Trans oil. I see WalMart in its future. Once I did and published test on Honda Helix over measured couse---to include syn/cheap WalMart/ mc shop (expensiver) oils----Conclusion=no difference in performance. Highest mileage on one of the 4 Helix I bought new=50,000 miles, on WalMart oil, with no engine trouble inspite of being run wide open a lot of the time. Remember this engine did not have filter and did have small oil capacity, so oil worked really hard. Last time in WI, I saw 3 of the Helix I traded there still on road.

Are we being sold snake oile programs? Most people do not ride their scooter/bike enough to really wear the engine out.

OK then maybe I will just try the Rotella 15W-40 I have for first change! I have enough left over from the KLR!!!

Another oil thing I've noticed riders do especially in my BMW Club days, is sitting on the bike for anything up to five minutes after starting the engine 'warming the oil up'. I was reminded of the practice a couple of days ago watching a rider at work sitting there with the engine idling away and occasionally blipping the throttle before his decided his oil or engine was warmed up sufficiently and set off home. There's another rider that has a regular audience in the canteen looking down as he performs his 'pre-flight check list' of lights, brake lights, indicators, and horn as his bike warms up. I'm

In contrast all the car drivers chuck their gear on the seats, fasten their seat belts, start the car and go.

If anyone doesn't know the reason for "warming the oil up" on a bike, there really is a legitimate one. Most bikes use wet clutches, whereby engine oil also bathes the clutch. If the oil is thick, as in cold starting, the clutch plates will not fully disengage from the flywheel when the clutch is applied. The resulting "clunk" or even "bang" on engaging first gear is not a nice sound. By warming the oil the clutch plates will not drag and gear engagement will be much smoother. On dry clutch bikes like most Ducati's this is not an issue.
Also on any bike with a CVT this is also not an issue.

Meldrew, remember the practice of pulling in the clutch and kicking over the engine before trying to start it? That would free up the clutch plates as well.

My old BMW R100/7 used to engage first gear with a real loud "clunk" whether I'd warmed the oil up or not, and of course it didn't have a kick starter either.

Many years later I had a BMW R100 GS PD that had, but I never managed to kickstart the bike using it. I mentioned that one evening at a club meet and a self-styled GS expert who I disliked overheard and said it was piss easy and he'd show me after the meeting.

Outside in the car park after the meeting he attempted quite a few times to kickstart my GS and failed, before going off cursing and sweaty from his efforts. My mates who had gathered to watch this GS master class were highly amused at his failure, and said I was sneaky twat as I'd hit the kill switch without him noticing.

Any hoser know you should only be using authentic Canadian swear words in your posts, it's in the rules of forum etiquette. Eh!

Meldrew,

They might have to make you an honorary Canadian !