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SilverwingInIdaho
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PostSubject: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 31, 2012 4:19 pm

I suspect my battery is getting low. Can you guys describe what I will experience with a low and near failing battery?

And what to replace it with? Something from wal mart or the bike shop?

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matthew
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 31, 2012 10:34 pm

When I bought my 04 used it had a bad battery, and the seller knew this so he provided me with a new battery for my journey back home from Oklahoma City to NM. Good thing he did, 'cuz after my motel overnight, when I went to continue my trip home the next morning, the battery was dead. I put in the new battery and it's been in there for four years now. I take it out of the bike in the winter and keep it charged up with a Battery Tender Junior. I think this has helped its longevity.

What you'll probably experience with a failing battery is that it won't hold a charge, meaning that you may need to remove it and charge it up, or you may need to have it jump started. Once it's charged up or jump started it'll keep going as long as the engine is running and the alternator is providing a continuous charge, but when you turn it off and leave it a while, you may not be able to start up your bike.

Here's a link to a battery that some people apparently have bought and liked - based on some forum posts I've read. I'm thinking I might get this one when I need a new battery:
http://www.powerstarsla.com/PM912L41.html



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billc.
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 01, 2012 9:08 am

I have had my battery for 3+ years. I put in on my Battery Tender Jr. each time I return home and it always stays charged and cranks even if I overnight somewhere on a trip.
I would like to know how to assess the status of the battery in terms of its lifetime. I do not want to keep it charged on the battery tender, leave home and have it fail somewhere down the road.
Is there a good way to tell how much time is left in it? thanks billc.
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GHM-PM
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GHM-PM

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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 21, 2012 9:06 am

Not really any way to guarantee the shape of your battery... Most shops can load test one but I have had them test good and the battery goes dead anyhow. A rule of thumb I go by is to REPLACE the battery between 3-4 years without fail, sooner if any problems crop up. This applies to my cars and truck but not my Trail 90's. The 90's have crappy batteries so I generally replace at 2 years (at 15 bucks why not?).

Some people tell me I am disposing of batteries early and costing me $$$ but if you are out in a National Park somewhere and your battery craps out it will cost MUCH more. I prefer to replace from Wal-Mart, Costco or the like at MY convenience. YMMV
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billc.
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 21, 2012 9:49 am

Glenn, Have you been able to find a "OEM equivalent" Silverwing battery at Wal-mart or Costco for $15.00? Let me know the model # please and I will look into getting one. billc.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 21, 2012 10:59 am

billc. wrote:
Glenn, Have you been able to find a "OEM equivalent" Silverwing battery at Wal-mart or Costco for $15.00? Let me know the model # please and I will look into getting one. billc.

Nice try! No the 15 bucks was referring to the 6 volt units for the CT90's. My Silver Wing is a 2012 so not in the market for a few years. Was speaking in generality... santa
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 21, 2012 3:55 pm

AFAIK, my 02 Swing still has the original battery that I've never had to put on a charger, even after storing for the winter. (Admittedly short here in horrible awful Tennessee)
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SilverwingInIdaho
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Hey guys I need some advice with the battery I picked up.

I went to the local bike shop and they said a WPS factory sealed battery was recommended. I paid 85 bucks out the door I think.

Anyway inside a note says

Never use fast charging and that over charging will ruin the battery. Constant voltage charge 14.4-15.0V

What does that mean exactly? Does it mean my speed charger/maintainer in 6 and 12 volt options is usless?

I was told I should charge it up to top it off by the guy at the shop but I don't know if my charger will ruin it or not? My charger is a 1.5 amp

Mike
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 4:41 pm

Find a bike battery charger, they usually put out about 1 amp. Car battery chargers are much higher and no good for small bike batteries. fast charging any battery is not the best idea, it is like fast tracking to the battery shop.
Trickle chargers can put out too high an amperage so take care.

Ride often and long is the best way to maintain your battery and your inner self. Smile

Cheers,
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SilverwingInIdaho
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 4:45 pm

My battery charger IS made for Bikes and lawnmowers.

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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 5:49 am

SilverwingInIdaho wrote:
My battery charger IS made for Bikes and lawnmowers.


Then it should be suitable for your Silverwing. If there is a 'fast charging' switch then as the included note says Dont Use It.
In fact I would see if there was a way to disable it.

My post was advice for all.

Cheers,
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SilverwingInIdaho
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 5:12 pm

I guess I am going to haul the bat and charger into the shop and let them figure it out. If I have to buy a charger just for this battery I am going to tell them it's not made me a happy customer.

Does anyone use Wal Mart batteries in their wings?
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 5:27 pm

I use one of these, when it's not the bike it's on the car. (It has limited functions on the car but will keep it charged).

http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/mc
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https://www.facebook.com/Waspie41
GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 11:31 am

SilverwingInIdaho wrote:


Does anyone use Wal Mart batteries in their wings?

Not sure how that would work. Do they make a AGM battery? Since the Wing uses a horizontal battery mount I would worry about battery fluid leaking out?
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm having some electrical problems with my Wing right now. I got a new battery from Batteries Plus and still having problems. I borrowed a battery from a friends Wing and right on the side of the battery is Wall Mart, he has never had any complaints about it leaking.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 11:02 pm

When I needed a battery, I checked at Wal-Mart. They listed a AGM battery, but it had to be special ordered. I didn't pursue the matter, since I neded the battery that day.
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SilverwingInIdaho
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 11:23 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
SilverwingInIdaho wrote:


Does anyone use Wal Mart batteries in their wings?

Not sure how that would work. Do they make a AGM battery? Since the Wing uses a horizontal battery mount I would worry about battery fluid leaking out?

That could be a worry. Good thing the bike shop told me my bat and charger are fine, the battery is sealed.
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winged warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 04, 2019 7:55 am

I'm on my second battery over 10 years - I keep mine on a trickle charger over the cold winter months (Toronto) - I brought the battery to the garage yesterday - fully charged - to run the bike for 10 minutes - move the fluids but did not have time as I was going to church - I stuck the battery in the trunk of my car for an hour and a half, and when I got back and put it in my SW, the damn thing would not start. Negative temperatures have an immediate and profound effect on the battery!
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 04, 2019 8:13 am

No Walmart in the bike but in the mowers and tractors with no problems. When I needed a battery for the bike I bought a Lithium Ion recommended here, no problems and a once a month for a hour or two on the Battery Tender does the job. Does COLD affect the the batteries, YES it does, heat may cause more rapid loss out of a lead acid battery but cold affects the performance more. Trickle Charger to me means a constant low flow of charge not really a good thing, if you use that method put it on a timer with a TENDER AKA Battery tender you are better off as it will go to the float mode after charging. I use a timer on the Tender also as a just in case CYA failure of an unit. Buying a larger charger with dedicated battery type settings and multiple rate of charge may be the answer to the what do I use question. The Battery Tender works just fine on the S'Wing after all our bikes charging system doesn't know what kind of battery we have in there be it Li AGM sealed whatever.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 05, 2019 5:59 pm

Lithium Ion loose a lot of power when cold much more than normal or AGM battery. They will work in colder temps BUT might take about 4-5 short attempts at starting. This warms up the internal battery temp. and battery delivers enough amps to start it. Ion are smaller and lighter weight.

I think all SW batteries are AGM spill proof due to horizontal position.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 05, 2019 6:12 pm

Lead acid batteries are rated in CCA, Cold cranking amps, the ability to perform when cold, I see this with my golf cart batteries the colder it is like today the quicker the gauges drop and the quicker recharge is needed, the bike battery is only feet away and recharges quickly. I found this reference to both types.
One major downfall of the lead acid solar battery is that its power capacity drops significantly in colder temperatures. In 0 degree Fahrenheit temperatures, a lead acid battery’s capacity is only 40-60% of its overall potential. This means that cold weather greatly decreases the amount of solar energy a lead acid battery can store, and with it, limits the amount of power your household has available on a cold day. Unfortunately, cold days are often when households need the energy generated from their solar panels the most to keep electric heaters running.

The same low temperature of 0 degrees Fahrenheit will only take a lithium-ion battery down ten percent or so. This means that even when your solar home battery gets cold, it can still store and provide your household with almost as much solar energy as it would on a normal day. If your home depends on your solar home battery for energy, reliability is key. Lithium-ion battery capacity is there for you, whatever the weather.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 05, 2019 8:25 pm

I agree mostly but battery must be the same size. Advantage of Ion is the smaller size and weight savings in a bike. Solar back up is a large bank of batteries not a single.

Ion not safe to recharge below 32F . Never recharge any frozen battery.
CCA is what turns an engine over high draw. Heaters low draw. Amp hour is how long it will go before voltage is to low to power up minimal vehicle functions when not charging. Fuel pump coils lights.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06, 2019 2:47 am

It should also be noted that that you can get higher CCA and longer AH with the lion batteries.
Here is the comparison with one popular brand:

Stock Battery: YTZ12S
Capacity: 11 Ah
Dimensions: 150mm x 87mm x 110mm.
Weight:  8.1 lbs.
Cold Cranking Amps: 210

https://shoraipower.com/battery?type=178&make=381622&model=382267&year=382267

Shorai Lion: lfx18a1-bs12
Capacity: 18Ah
Dimensions: 148mm x 66mm x 105mm.
Weight (lbs): 2.30 lbs
Cold Cranking Amps: 270

If you have electronics such as an alarm, which has a parasitic draw, or you have LEDs that you leave on for your local bike night meetup, or you have a motorcycle dash cam with parking mode, the extra capacity is a must.

Dan


Last edited by dspevack on Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06, 2019 8:10 am

I have a Lithium Ion battery in my SWing. I also have the Battery Tender Jr. for the charger which I put on about every other month during our short MN winters just to keep it charged. The SWing computer does put a small drain on the battery to maintain the dash info etc.
I don't ride in the cold so I don't have to worry much about the battery and the temp. I'm OLD and like it WARMER when I ride. That gives me about 2 1/2 weeks of riding here in sunny and warm MN. LOL
Here's a couple of pics of the Lithium next to the battery I replaced after I bought the SWing.

Battery time?  Li_bat10

Battery time?  Li_bat11
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 am

A fellow rider sent me this on batteries
. As winter sets in and the weather gets colder, we get lots of calls and questions about how our batteries perform in winter weather, and what steps need to be taken to maintain them. ALL batteries will perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of whether they are lithium or lead-acid. In fact, a lithium battery will still outperform a comparably-sized lead-acid when the temperature drops. However, since most people try to run the smallest and lightest lithium battery possible, there are some things to be aware of: For a daily-driven car… …almost no extra effort is required. On a very cold morning, however, one might find that the cranking performance of the battery is not as strong as usual; if it is very cold and the car has been sitting for a while, the car might not crank fast enough to start. This does not mean that your battery is dead.

Simply turn on the headlights or rear defroster for a few minutes to drain some energy from the battery. As a result, the battery will warm up internally and gain enough “juice” to start the car.
This we only be necessary at very low temperatures, and we have found that after doing this once on cold mornings, the battery stays warm enough to crank the engine reliably for the rest of the day. This trick will only work if the battery is close to warm enough to start the car–if the battery is too cold, or too small, then you will need to warm the battery up before use. For racers who store their cars in the off-season… …the battery only needs to be monitored to make sure it is never completely discharged. Handily, lithium batteries self-discharge at a much slower rate than conventional chemistries.

Racecars should be stored with the master killswitch off, or better yet, with the battery completely disconnected from the vehicle.
L series batteries will use some of the pack’s energy to run the BMS system, and should be recharged at least once every 90 days because of this. C and T series batteries should be able to sit for one year without needing a charge.
On cars that see infrequent use during the winter… …it is even more important to keep the battery charged up, and the car will draw a small amount of energy from the battery to do things such as keep the radio presets, or to provide power for the alarm system. Some cars, such as later-model Porsches and BMWs, have a much higher draw than other cars, and will thus drain the battery much more quickly. Every car is different.

The best way to maintain a lithium battery in this scenario is to charge it weekly, or before every time you drive. Understandably, this is not always practical.
If you are not worried about radio presets, it is certainly possible to disconnect the battery entirely and store it, charging periodically, as recommended for racers above.
Float chargers which are AGM-compatible can be used to keep the battery topped off. This allows the car to be driven at a few minute’s notice, and doesn’t lose any presets or require radio codes upon startup.
Some other items to note:

Lithium batteries like being stored in the cold. As long as the location is indoors and dry, temperatures down to near-freezing are safe, and will allow the user to “top off” the charge less frequently
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07, 2019 7:34 am

I will stick with the AGM battery over lithium... Price is much better and I don't need to trash my old battery maintainers etc.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07, 2019 9:30 am

No need to trash them, think about it do you makes changes to vehicles charging system just because you change battery types? No where have I found specific instructions of do not use this battery in a -------.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 08, 2019 2:16 am

Be careful with lithium ion batteries. The can get VERY hot if charged or discharged too fast. They do get hot enough to catch fire.

I use Odyssey batteries. Very long lived, some sizes come in MILSPEC all are excellent quality. I had one on a Goldwing for six years before I sold it. Not cheap but very worthwhile.

Remember, you can't push start a bike with a CVT transmission.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 08, 2019 8:54 am

exavid wrote:
Be careful with lithium ion batteries. The can get VERY hot if charged or discharged too fast. They do get hot enough to catch fire.

I use Odyssey batteries. Very long lived, some sizes come in MILSPEC all are excellent quality. I had one on a Goldwing for six years before I sold it. Not cheap but very worthwhile.

Remember, you can't push start a bike with a CVT transmission.

The hot on discharged is true but the only time I've seen this is when I run the battery to flat on the weed eaters, normal use not so much as on the chainsaw. The charging WILL NOT take place with the chargers supplied with these units, they have a built in temp sensor that prevents that. IF one has a LI battery in their bike and it doesn't start on a couple pushes of the starter button look elsewhere for the problem. I don't know how long a LI will last in a bike not having gotten that far with mine, the weed eater batteries are at 8 years so far but I've notice usage time is dropping off.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 08, 2019 2:19 pm

Agreed but I've seen a case where someone tried to charge one with an old uncontrolled battery charger that got the battery hot enough to cook eggs on. Don't get me wrong, I think Lithium are the greatest advance in batteries in my life time. There are quite a few ultralight and experimental aircraft that are being flown with electric motors powered by lithium batteries. Several different man carrying drone type aircraft are flying too.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 08, 2019 3:25 pm

Smile one thing about LI, no fooling around when they are done they are done, running fine one minuet and kaput the next, not handy in a vehicle.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 08, 2019 9:29 pm

I'm no expert. Google says there are 5 different types of ION batteries.
Phones, laptop and many small batteries are fire prone due to thermal heat. Overcharging-high discharge rate= short.

Battery Tender battery is Lithium Iron not the same . A safer type.

Most small jump starter packs are Lithium Iron. I use one at work to jump start dead cars and it works well as long as it's warm. It can start a dead car even on coldest days. 0-15F
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Battery time?    Battery time?  I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 09, 2019 12:54 am

A company called www.Antigravitybatteries.com
Makes 2 interesting products relevant to this discussion:

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/micro-starts/sport-white/
Is a really light weight portable battery pack great for emergencies. 9.75 oz, 5 x 2.8 x 0.875 inches
Although I take many precautions not to drain my battery, I keep this on the bike and top off the charge every 6 months or so. It comes with a pigtail (which I have permanently attached to my battery terminal). Just plug into the pigtail and I'm ready to go.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/restart-oem/atx12-hd-rs/
This links to the heavy duty version with 480cca and 16AH. There are cheaper versions.
What is interesting about this item is that just before it is about to go dead, it puts itself to sleep. Then you press a button on the battery and it will give enough power to start the bike. Basically it keeps a reserve for one more start.

For your consideration.

Dan

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