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 what grade of fuel does everyone use?

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dikkiedo
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PostSubject: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 05:31

i have always used premieum gas in all my scooters just because i figured it was better for the engine ,and it wasnt much difference in price when you only put a dollar or two in. does anyone use reg rather then premieum for their swing and if so do you see any difference in performance,MPG or such?
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 05:46

I use regular all the time in my SW or my Goldwing.

Here is a website that lists the gas stations in your state which sells gas without the alcohol.

My bike runs real nice on this stuff. It is worth it.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 06:05

The lower of the two grades available here - 95RON (the other is 98).
It's cheaper and what the Silverwing's set up for. Wink
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 06:21

The lower grade is what i use,and and hight test for winter hibernation . motorcycle
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 08:20

My dealer and my owner's manual says the 'Wing can run on regular so that is what it gets!!! Why spend more dosh if the scoot doesn't need it?
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robert
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:50






+1
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alloo
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:18

Regular 87
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midlandchip
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:45

I use regular 87 and get 55 mpg average. I have never tried a higher octane grade.
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RickV
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:48

I use non-ethanol fuel most of the time and in MN that means premium - there is a provision in the law which allows non-ethanol fuel sales for small engines, boats, snowmobiles, collector cars and motorcycles - only a few gas stations carry the non-ethanol. Any cost difference in the price for fueling the Silverwing sort of gets lost in rounding when I fill up my Ford Windstar Minivan. In addition, I have had issues with ethanol fuel with my 1974 Starcraft I/O, 1979 Kaw. KZ650, my snowblower and my 2006 Aprilia Scarabeo 500!!! Absolutely no winter storage with any ethanol fuel!!! There is already a law on MN books to move from E10 to E15 in a few years - hopefully this special provision is part of that law.

Rick V

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eddy
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 16 Jun 2012, 02:07

In Europe mostly there is the choice between E98 and E95.
Sometimes E10 = a mix with 10% bio gas.

I don't experience a difference in E98 and E95.
( power, consuming )

No knowledge about E10.


Eddy
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:10

It does seem strange that ethanol has been around for 40 years or so and the problems (fuel lines etc.) have been well documented. Wouldn't one think that these problems would have been addressed by now?

Personally I have had no ethanol related problems in any of my vehicles; even my 1974 CT's; of course the fuel lines have been replaced and other things as well.
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DarthJ
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:50

RickV wrote:
There is already a law on MN books to move from E10 to E15 in a few years - hopefully this special provision is part of that law.

Rick V


Going to be a problem for some, some cars flat out state no higher than E10.
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oldgoat
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 16 Jun 2012, 13:43

Regular, 'cos Honda says so.
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Okiedolkle
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PostSubject: Octane   Mon 02 Jul 2012, 12:28

I'll be rcv'g an operator's manual in a few days for my 2002 SWing so I'm not sure what octane will be suggested. However, on the sticker in the luggage compartment it indicates to use 91 RON min. (I'll have to dig deeper into this "rating" method stuff)
Also, the sticker indicates to refer to the Ops manual concerning gas w/alcohol. I hoping it will say: not more than 10% and not -- 'do NOT use gas w/alcohol! That would be a bummer.
Homer
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alloo
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 02 Jul 2012, 16:09

Regular 87
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Darkeswinger
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Tue 03 Jul 2012, 15:41

I wish that premium did make a difference in performance, but alas, it does not (in my scoot). I use regular.

I've not tried airplane gas, or any octane boosting stuff.
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Stvwilley
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 06 Jul 2012, 12:50

Bought a new 09 model S-W recently. Selling dealer said to never use gas older than 2 months. Got the 600v mile at a local Honda dealer who said the same. Apparently the alcohol content absorbs moisture over time. I do have a 300 gallon farm tank here that gets filled once a year and the gas seems fine in all autos and chainsaw etc, but sure nuff storing over winter, even after draining that gas, the small engines won't start. The dealer's advice was to fill with premium from a couple of local sources, which has no alcohol, and lasts over a year.
Sad that the bio-fuels have limitations in lifetime and fuel mileage, because local production is a big advantage on supply side of things.
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som2002
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 06 Jul 2012, 14:41

87
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Old Sloppy
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Wed 29 Aug 2012, 20:09

I use 87 octaine gasoline , however You can use 15% "Dieselene" with no ill effects other than the slight smell.

Harry
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rollsroyce250
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Wed 29 Aug 2012, 22:02

I use straight diesel. It gives me the best performance and I fog for mosquitoes as I ride.
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kbcmdba
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 02:11

Shell 87 most of the time and an enzyme to deal with the alcohol. Enzyme gives about 3-8mpg boost.

KB
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 08:20

kbcmdba wrote:
Shell 87 most of the time and an enzyme to deal with the alcohol. Enzyme gives about 3-8mpg boost.

KB

Enzyme? Snake oil? If not, details please?
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hobbykim
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 11:56

I use 89 seen new,I try use 87 but not run better than 89 so I switch back to 89.You try 89 you can feel engine run better,I use 92 but I don't like much.


Last edited by hobbykim on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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txtrkdrvr
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 13:55

I buy the least expensive fuel in town. 90% of the time I buy Walmart/ Murphy's fuel. It's almost always the cheapest around. Plus if you go into the store and put money on a gift card, when you slide the card at the pump, you get an additional .03 cents a gallon of the pump price, .05 cents a gallon if you use a WallyWorld Visa. I average 54 mpg with strictly in town fair weather riding. 300 miles ago I put a Sumitomo dark side tire on the rear. I'm almost ready for another fill up, it will be interesting to see if the tire affects MPG.
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 16:46

I use the cheapest grade at the pumps. Tried the highest grade but found absolutely no difference to performance or milage so why bother!!
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Old Sloppy
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 18:11

txtrkdrvr wrote:
I put a Sumitomo dark side tire on the rear. I'm almost ready for another fill up, it will be interesting to see if the tire affects MPG.

The #1 item to affect fuel mileage is your right wrist.....

The #2 item is tire air pressure, the higher pressure gives the least rolling resistance, It is possible that a DS tire has harder rubber and may help with mileage.

however My biggest concern is getting the tires to wear longer so I run 21 psi and I "make due" with 52 - 53 mpg.

I allso drive a little fast, this hurts gas mileage a little....

21 psi. actually causes the tires to vibrate when over 100 mph.

but I have allmost 22,000 miles on my front tire.

I had 11,000 miles on my origional rear tire and have passed that mark with the replacement tire and continue to rack up miles ..not worn out yet...

Harry


Last edited by Old Sloppy on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 18:26; edited 3 times in total
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Old Sloppy
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 18:19

hobbykim wrote:
I use 89 seen new,I try 87 but not run better than 89 so I switch back to 89.You try 89 you can feel engine run better,I use 92 but I don't like much.

The engine is calibrated to run best with 87 octane, this in effect advances the spark timing for maximum power, but not the smoothest idle.

running 89 octaine will in effect retard the spark causing smoother feeling at idle but reduced torque and slightly reduced power.

92 octane takes it a step further...........even more spark retard, enough that you don't like the overall effects......
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 18:29

I run on regular gas, 32 lbs front,and 39 lbs rear,and average 68 mpg with MC tire. Now with 155 70 DS tire,and 34 lbs,i average 72 mpg . Smile
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Okiedolkle
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 19:31

Slight dilemma here, re: octane. Information contained on a sticker 'fastened' inside the storage box of my 2002 SWing, it indicates to use 91 octane RON. In my 2002 Owner's Manual, it says use Octane with a Pump Octane number of 86 (or higher).

I've run both and I find the engine running quieter and a little smoother using 91. And it might be my imagination, but the SWing appears to have a little more pep.

No scientific evaluations about my impressions mind you, just a gut feeling from sound & feel.

(Maybe it is because I am running the Honda SWing with a Danson Trike Conversion kit)

Just my two cents ... Smile
Homer
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Old Sloppy
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Thu 30 Aug 2012, 19:55

Okiedolkle wrote:
Slight dilemma here, use 91 octane RON. Octane with a Pump Octane number of 86 (or higher).
Homer

RON does not equal Octane.
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Okiedolkle
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Fri 31 Aug 2012, 11:23


RON does not equal Octane.[/quote]

Yea, I think the RON nomenclature indicates the "rating method." But, the label does indicate 91 Octane.

I guess the answer for me is to run the octane that I feel works best in my scooter. I just came back from a 20 mile trip, and listening to the motor "purr" helps me to make that decision. It just confuses poor, little, ole, non-mechanic me when there are two different recommendations (from the manufacturer).

Not a BIG deal tho --- except for the cost! affraid

Homer
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mrcaveman
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 03 Sep 2012, 10:05

I agree with 'old Sloppy', the engine is set to run just fine on 87. If you run anything else, the SW is always trying to adjust and compensate fuel settings and you are spitting into the wind. Not to mention wasting money.... but again the oil companies love you for chosing a higher grade.....
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rollsroyce250
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:10

mrcaveman wrote:
If you run anything else, the SW is always trying to adjust and compensate fuel settings and you are spitting into the wind.


There is no knock sensor or wide band O2 sensor for the engine to adjust its timing based on the octane of the fuel.
The engine doesn't care what octane it burns, nor will it adjust for different octanes.
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joeam
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 09:17

old thread new swing owner wondering what octane as i am hearing what sounds like engine rattle on the 07 swing with 15380 miles. The sound appears on acceleration and sounds like valves or lifters but i know nothing about these scoots
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 12:54

I use the regular 87 grade. Never tried anything else. I get around 50 mpg.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 14:08

Most riders prefer saving money at the pump. Here in the South East U.S. Temperatures often approach a Hundred Degrees Farenheidt.

The Higher the temperature and or the work load the higher the Octane Requirement to prevent pre ignition or engine destroying detonation.

The 10.2 Compression ratio on the Silverwing is borderline high octane requiring, Although most riders will save money at the pump opting for 87 or 89 as apposed to 91 Octane.

The riders who use the lower grade fuel in these heated conditions experience more engine trouble than the high test buyers. Also noted are the large carbon build up's particurally on the back of the valves and in the combustion chambers in the lower octane 87 as opposed to the high test 91 octane engines.

The new Iridium spark plugs have solved the frequent plug changes in the 87 octane engines where the build up and short plug life was a factor.

Happy motoring lloyd 193
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 16:57

FWIW I have used nothing but 87 octane E-10 in my '06 since I got it in May of last year; 6500 miles or so, in two Florida summers now; with no problems of any sort--no pinking, pinging, knocking or any other fuel related issues.

I did read through the original posts from 2012 and found some confusion as to "RON" fuel recommendations and "octane" recommendations. In fact however RON is just one of the two more common methods for determing a fuel's octane rating. RON is the Research Octane Number, the other is MON, the Motor Octane Number, determined using methods that in part simulate real world conditions.

Though not directly related for a given fuel the MON will always be 8 to 12 points lower than the RON value. Most countries use the RON to indicate fuel "octane" on pumps; but in Canada, the US and a few other countries an average of  the RON and MON (R+M)/2 is posted at the pump.

Because MON is always lower than RON the (R+M)/2 value will also always be lower than the RON for the same fuel. This often creates confusion in international forums such as this where some quote their manuals as specifying 91 octane (RON)  and other swear their manual say 87 octane (R+M)/2.

For example, we test some gasoiline and find that it has a RON of 91 and a MON of 83, an 8 point difference. The (R+M)/2 rating for that fuel will be (91 + 83) / 2 = 87 octane--same gasoline, different sides of the ocean.

Rule of thumb: the (R+M)/2 octane rating will be 4 to 6 points lower than the RON rating, for the same fuel. Here's a good Octane 101 white paper...
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 21:11

The Silverwing engine doesn't require higher octane fuel because it has a low enough compression ratio to prevent detonation. Higher octanes actually are designed to ignite at a higher flash point than regular to prevent compression ignition in high compression engines. You don't get more power from the stuff so it's a waste of money in the Silverwing, no benefit at all.
None ethanol gasoline is worth using in my opinion even it the octane rating is more than needed and it doesn't contain that damnable hydroscopic alcohol. Less corrosion and easier on seals in the fuel system.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sat 15 Jul 2017, 22:24

My riding buddies still swear by high octane in their bikes. I have always used regular 87 octane in my bikes ( VLX 600, ACE 750, 05 SWing, 98 VT 1100T, 86 Helix and 07 SWing) . They cringe every time I fill up, but they fail to notice that my bikes all ran and still run very well. I do buy high octane premium for my lawnmower and snowblower. My 98 yr-old neighbor swears by it, and I'm not arguing with that much experience.
Jay.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sun 16 Jul 2017, 00:26

I use high octane in my BMW 650GT scooter but that's what's called for because it has a high compression engine. The BMW squeezes more hp out of each cc than the Honda engine. My preference would have been a slightly lower compression and horsepower for the ccs which makes for a longer lived engine.
A lot of Honda's bikes and cars for that matter are designed for long life and low maintenance. The engine in a Goldwing operates more like a tractor engine than a race car. It's large displacement slow turning and fairly low compression. That's why a friend of mine has a 1993 Goldwing 1500 with 400,000 miles on it. The design philosophy of the Silverwing is along the same idea as the Goldwing, long life and reliability.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sun 16 Jul 2017, 06:27

Hygroscopic, with a "g"...

The compression ratio value most commonly stated is the static ratio, calculated using the total length of an engine's stroke. It is an interesting number but not entirely related to an engine's octane requirements.

Another compression ratio value, more related to octane needs, is the dynamic ratio; calculated using the stroke remaining before TDC after the intake valve closes--as on most gasoline engines the intake valve closes after BDC the dynamic CR is mostly always less than the static CR.

The intake valve in our engines closes at 39° ABDC. I have not done the math to determine remaining stroke however I would "guesstimate" this brings the dynamic CR in at 9.3:1 or so.

Then to further complicate things there is the actual compression ratio--or more correctly actual compression vs. ambient pressure--which includes factors for intake charge density (akin to manifold vacuum, but more dynamic).

So at the end, though static CR is an indicator of an engine's octane requirements it is not an especially good one; dynamic CR (precisely calculated or estimated by observing intake timing) is a much better number to consider.

Then there's forced induction...
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sun 16 Jul 2017, 07:33

Wow, great discussion.

The Silverwing's 5000 to 6000 RPMs @ 65 MPH can hardly compare with a Goldwing's "slow turning, low compression" 2500 RPMs at a similar cruising speed though. However that there are several high mileage Silverwings still on the street speaks to the quality of Honda's design and engineering.

Actually though even at those high operating RPMs Silverwing's outlive their owners as well.

Oh, this was a fuel discussion. I found that my 2003 SW and my 2009 SW got noteably better tank range when I used Shell 87 octane. So how come the better performance with Shell vs other big name fuel providers?

Tim


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sun 16 Jul 2017, 07:58

rollsroyce250 wrote:
I use straight diesel. It gives me the best performance and I fog for mosquitoes as I ride.

? Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Sun 16 Jul 2017, 14:35

cliffyk - Hygroscopic, with a "g"...

Indeed. The older I get the poorer my spelling.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 04:12

Some of you really do seem to make hard work of buying fuel for the Silver Wing in the US. Back here where we pull up for fuel, the pumps have Unleaded (95 Octane), Super Unleaded (97 Octane) and some petrol stations may have another pump dispensing an even higher octane performance fuel and that's it. The pump hoses are green for petrol and black for Diesel, that's it. The basic Unleaded is what the Silver Wing runs on, and it's a couple of pence a litre cheaper than Super Unleaded. Supermarket petrol is cheaper than High Street, and on our motorways it's more expensive, that's it.

A simple procedure that we do without getting hung up on Ethanol, compression ratios, heat and humidity, and of course what the Gold Wing does.

Oh, and we might be required to remove our helmets 'for security purposes' before the pumps are turned on at some petrol stations, Evil or Very Mad that's it.
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dekare
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 07:58

Meldrew wrote:
Some of you really do seem to make hard work of buying fuel for the Silver Wing in the US.



Some people sure do and it's not limited to only this site, I'm members of others as well, and it's all the same, what fuel should I use, what tires and what kind of oil? Sometimes one wonders if they actually dress themselves in the morning. All kidding aside, and to be fair, there are probably crops of new people riding motorcycles that perhaps are new to them. Mine was new to me as well, that's why I read my manual when I first got it, and refer to it as need be.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 12:01

Meldrew wrote:
Some of you really do seem to make hard work of buying fuel for the Silver Wing in the US. Back here where we pull up for fuel, the pumps have Unleaded (95 Octane), Super Unleaded (97 Octane) and some petrol stations may have another pump dispensing an even higher octane performance fuel and that's it. The pump hoses are green for petrol and black for Diesel, that's it. The basic Unleaded is what the Silver Wing runs on, and it's a couple of pence a litre cheaper than Super Unleaded. Supermarket petrol is cheaper than High Street, and on our motorways it's more expensive, that's it.

A simple procedure that we do without getting hung up on Ethanol, compression ratios, heat and humidity, and of course what the Gold Wing does.

Oh, and we might be required to remove our helmets 'for security purposes' before the pumps are turned on at some petrol stations, Evil or Very Mad that's it.

This is especially true when you consider that 87 octane* here costs just $2.09/gallon--about 42p per liter...

--------------------------
* - (R+M)/2
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 12:08

£1.10/litre here Crying or Very sad
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 16:01

Jolly Bodger wrote:
£1.10/litre here Crying or Very sad

Wow, that $5.43 per gallon!
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: what grade of fuel does everyone use?   Mon 17 Jul 2017, 16:14

42p a litre!!! And you worry about saving a few pennies on low octain fuel?
Occasionally I take out a mortgage to fill the tank with shell ultra for its supposed cleaning properties, but usually it just regular 95 octane. I can't say I notice any difference. The car does have a teeny bit more torque on the expensive stuff but not enough to justify the price.
To be honest I don't get too precious about it, the only thing I really worry about is an empty tank.
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