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 175 darkside tire

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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 19 Jun 2016, 02:56

i know what you mean, scooter tyres are cheap.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 18 May 2017, 00:44

Toymeister wrote:
I rode a SW for years dark side it worked well until the day it did not.

I was traveling at 78 mph. at the time, I know silverwings, as I have owned two I can assure you the Sumitoto caused my accident.  I understand the dark side enthusiasts and I am not here to criticize them.  Car tires wear great, they have fantastic traction they handle great almost all the time.  It almost cost me my life.

I doubt there are many dark side survivors out there.  The performance problems appear at higher speeds, at least it did for me. If you do choose DS I would not use a Sumitoto, in fact I would avoid it.  But it's your call.

As for me,  I am grateful to be alive, landing in a grassy median saved me.  Sheer luck.


So this guy says this and was asked "So, what happened?" It has been a year and still no answer. Unanswered, it appears as another dubious claim against the darkside.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 18 May 2017, 15:49

swing swing Bandito2, Did you Go into a Wobble? Or did your Dark Side Tire Blowout? Did That Valve Stem cut it's Self off at the Rim? Please Reply, I am Interested in your Information and hope that you are OK. Happy Motoring Lloyd193.


Last edited by lloyd193 on Tue 23 May 2017, 11:10; edited 1 time in total
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 18 May 2017, 16:57

I would say...sudden deflation.  Car Rims and MC rims are different, bead area different---there is SAE paper on this.....all of this in addition to goofy handling.

further few people here ride more than 30,000 miles a year to make the savings of car tires anyway.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 18 May 2017, 17:04

lloyd193 wrote:
Bandito2, Did you Go into a Wobble? Or did your Dark Side Tire Blowout? Did That Valve Stem cut it's Self off at the Rim? Please Reply, I am Interested in your Information and hope that you are OK. Happy Motoring Lloyd193.

NOTE: Bandito did not have a problem with a car tire on his Silverwing. He was quoting someone and asking what happened as others have done as well.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 18 May 2017, 17:07

john grinsel wrote:



further few people here ride more than 30,000 miles a year to make the savings of car tires anyway.

Tires last 8 years. 30 / 8 = 3750 per year. That seems to answer that.



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Toymeister
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 20 May 2017, 23:15

Survivor of of the darkside failure here, I long ago forgot about this post. Dubious claim? Really? I limp for life how is that questionable?

The bike went into a woble. If you have pulled a trailer where the load was to the rear of the axle and the trailer started waging the car it was like that. In the trailer/car situation you speed up to gain control In my case I was in traffic. I could only brake, which instantly made it worse. The tire was inflated properly, I checked. The road was in great condition, it was dry, it was a paved feeder road to a interstate. Yes, I was speeding 78 in a 70, which was keeping up with traffic on the morning commute. It was not sudden loss of air pressure. The tire was drivable after the crash, it was not the rim. It was the tire, believe me or not I wanted to know I checked thoroughly.

Having said all that if you believe in darksiding, no it won't happen to you, Yes you are a superior rider to me. Yes this is all some greater scheme that I have set for some unknown reason to discourage you from darksiding.

If you do not believe in conspiracies, I hope that I have helped. I can say that until the tire threw me off the bike I did like the wear and the traction in the rain
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 21 May 2017, 20:52

Interesting, but how do you know for sure that having the car tire back there caused your wobble and not by something up in the front end like improper inflation, bad shocks, loose steering head nut, loose axle nut? Or at the rear with improper inflation, bad shocks, loose swing arm (either side) loose axle nut, loose engine mounts, cracked frame or poorly distributed load on the bike? or any combination of that along with speed higher than 70 and possibly hitting something on the road with the front tire thereby initiating the wobble?

Any of those would be more likely causes than just because you were using a car tire. Yours is the first citation of such a claim out of all other users that have used a car tire on their Silverwing600. (and most any other bike as well) So statistically, your claim doesn't add up. What ever caused your wobble likely would have happened just as readily with a bike tire on the rear.

Sorry for your discomfort, but I think your blame is misplaced.
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Toymeister
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 21 May 2017, 22:34

Well 21 hours that's not long to be called into question. We can disagree bandito and still be friends, that's fine. You were not there you do not have superior knowledge. You did not check tire pressure 3 days earlier and after the crash but I did. You weren't alternating between two silverwings, thus making it easier to spot the problems you mention.

I understand that it is hard to give up on something you believe I . Mine is not the first report of ds failure a quick Google search shows that. The Stats are survivors of crashes over 70 mph on mc often die. DS failures IMO are most likely going to appear at higher speeds. Those people don't post about ds failures, they certainly don't discuss the failure in somewhat hostile environment. I don't think I can add any more to the conversation other than this was with out a doubt a DS caused crash and it was none I repeat none of the causes brought up yet or will be brought up in subsequent rebuttals.
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 21 May 2017, 23:04

Bandito2 - Are you trying to say that fitting a car tyre to a motorcycle will not adversely affect the handling at all?

JB
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 21 May 2017, 23:14

bandito2 wrote:
Interesting, but how do you know for sure that having the car tire back there caused your wobble and not by something up in the front end like improper inflation, bad shocks, loose steering head nut, loose axle nut? Or at the rear with improper inflation, bad shocks, loose swing arm (either side) loose axle nut, loose engine mounts, cracked frame or poorly distributed load on the bike? or any combination of that along with speed higher than 70 and possibly hitting something on the road with the front tire thereby initiating the wobble?

Any of those would be more likely causes than just because you were using a car tire. Yours is the first citation of such a claim out of all other users that have used a car tire on their Silverwing600. (and most any other bike as well) So statistically, your claim doesn't add up. What ever caused your wobble likely would have happened just as readily with a bike tire on the rear.

Sorry for your discomfort, but I think your blame is misplaced.
Bandito,
I greatly appreciate information regarding DS, but maybe Toymeisterr is correct. Read what Lloyd193 had to say about high speed wobble when using car tires in the post "has anybody tried a 165/65R/13". In it he mentions that car tires has the tendency to wobble at high speed. He also gives advice on what to do if it should happen to someone.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Mon 22 May 2017, 00:14

Thank you for your post and warning. Now, lets move on. There are many members here who have successfully installed and used car tires on the back of their Silverwing.

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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Mon 22 May 2017, 19:16

Toymeister, You are absolutely correct, A flat faced auto tire Greatly increases the possibility of a Wobble. I have experienced five in my 65 years of riding and they are no fun. Motorcycle tires on Bikes and Auto tires on Cars are best. If you are going to run that auto Tire Tighten up that Steering Head Spindle Adjustment so that there is no slop to contribute to that wobble. Avoid uneven paving areas in the road surface, If you are forced over a Repaving area, Attack it at as sharp an angle as possible. Cargo stored high on your ride and add on rear trunks raising the Center of Gravity and contributing to cross wind or Turblance all contribute to a loss of stability. If you wobble do not attempt to steer, Just Stiff arm those bars and allow the bike to slow and you will recover. Never use the Brakes in a wobble, Brakes guarantee a Crash.Happy Motoring lloyd193 swing
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Tue 23 May 2017, 21:14

lol
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Tue 23 May 2017, 22:38

lloyd193 wrote:
Toymeister, You are absolutely correct, A flat faced auto tire Greatly increases the possibility of a Wobble. I have experienced five in my 65 years of riding and they are no fun.

And this ^ was while using a car tire on the rear those times? ... No? ... No car tire in use then? Then why try to associate something that had nothing to do with your wobble episodes as if it did? Clearly disingenuous.

To be fair, if it did, then you're doing it wrong.

The point I'm trying to get across is that by itself, the car tire does not cause the problem... there is something else going on that would allow the wobble even if there were a bike tire in use.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Wed 24 May 2017, 00:14

Jolly Bodger wrote:
Bandito2 - Are you trying to say that fitting a car tyre to a motorcycle will not adversely affect the handling at all?

JB
No... not exactly; and the term "adversely" is subjective and ambiguous. In other words it may be adverse to some to a large extent and to others not as much. Handling differently does not automatically equate with being adverse... It depends on who you ask and what exactly do they mean by adversely.

If you look at the various definitions of adverse, you will note that there is no reference to the degree of being contrary, hostile, unfavorable, harmful or opposite in position... only that they exist. One guy just rolling his eyes could be said to be adversely opposed to something and another guy Screaming, cursing and throwing things could be said to be adversely opposed to the same thing. Telling somebody else who had no knowledge of either man that these two men were adversely opposed to something, he would have no idea, no clue to the actual degree of opposition to the thing by either man.

Clearly there are differences to handling between using a bike tire on the rear or a car tire on the rear. But I wouldn't call it or consider it adverse, I'd consider and call it different.

The error in your question is the mistake of assuming the term adverse denoting danger or threat of harm to a high degree and that it is the way everybody understands and uses the term and its meaning that way. That is a false premise because I don't exactly agree with your meaning of the term adversely... And I know I'm not the only one that thinks that way as well.

So, does putting a car tire on a bike make it dangerous? Rolling Eyes I don't think so, but YMMV
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Wed 24 May 2017, 01:53

I run a car tire on my motorcycle.  I have yet to have a fiery accident caused by my choice.  I have simply followed the advice of those who have done it before me.  

I don't allow "contempt prior to investigation"  to interfere with my decision making process.  I simply follow the advice of those who have successfully done this.  Running car tires on the back of a Silverwing has been done by many who no longer belong to this forum for various reasons.  Perhaps they sold their Silverwing, or perhaps they tired of being called idiots or reckless.  I am neither.

Also, I am not the only one in north America that has taken the risky step of putting a coffee cup holder on his scooter and enjoys a hot beverage while scootering around town.  

Yes, my coffee cup holder is my favorite accessory but it is a close 2nd to my Corbin back rest, or my Givi adjustable windshield, or the GPS, the phone mount (mp3 player) or the cargo box.    I use a tire pressure monitoring system as well.....  whoa, way to many things to manage when I am running the risk of a car tire that could end my life in the next corner because the tire is flat trying to go around a curve.

When I encounter a curve (very rare in Washington State)  I just dismount and lift the rear of my scooter and point it in the direction I want to go and then get on it and GO.  Small sacrifice to make for the amount of extra mileage I get out of that square car tire.
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Wed 24 May 2017, 18:12

Bandito2 – Are you really going to argue the definition of “adversely”???
I’m sure you know what I mean and your argument that it is “subjective and ambiguous” is quite frankly ridiculous.

Modernman – I was trying to ask a serious question but if you want to make a joke of it that’s fine.

Gentlemen - At the end of the day it’s your bike, your life, your choice. If you decide that fitting a car tyre is the right thing to do and you are prepared to take that risk (however small) for the sake of saving a few dollars then nothing I say will change that.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 25 May 2017, 03:21

Jolly Bodger wrote:
Bandito2 – Are you really going to argue the definition of “adversely”???
I’m sure you know what I mean and your argument that it is “subjective and ambiguous” is quite frankly ridiculous.

Modernman – I was trying to ask a serious question but if you want to make a joke of it that’s fine.

Gentlemen - At the end of the day it’s your bike, your life, your choice. If you decide that fitting a car tyre is the right thing to do and you are prepared to take that risk (however small) for the sake of saving a few dollars then nothing I say will change that.

I think it is just different, you think it is adversely affected (in the dangerous way of "adversely") and presume that your assertion is the only correct one when it in fact is not.

And for the sake of saving a few dollars is such an old tired response by those that refuse to even consider the idea of using a car tire and can't seem to ever understand... no matter how many times they have been told that saving a little bit of money is not the only reason or very (possibly most) often even the main reason for doing so.

There is such a lack of understanding or even a smidgen of curiosity as to why we do it... Folks just come out first with trying to tell us how wrong they think we are and how dangerous it is with very little to no experience of their own to base that on, expressing opinion as if it were fact, parroting what they may have heard or read in an article before and accepting that as gospel, ignoring the difference between the large number of positive testimonials of experienced users versus the minimal to nearly non-existent reports of negative issues (most without evidence) or just making outright incorrect assumptions on their own.

Assumptions like "It's unsafe" (without any reputable proof) "You risk your life to save a little money" (when saving money often is not the main reason. And there is risk in just about everything. Most do not go into it blindly and do research to help with their assessment of risk before doing it.)

"Car tires were not meant to be put on bike rims and there is danger in the improper fit" (True, car tires were not meant to be mounted on bike rims. But it does work safely enough; at least equally as well as a bike tire. No reports of tire deflation or coming off the rim. If there are reports of that then they have certainly not been any more frequent than similar reports of bike tires doing that. That also goes for car tires supposedly exploding when getting mounted on bike rims when bike tires can do the same.)

"your insurance won't pay for a claim if you use a car tire." (Really? I doubt you have any significant number of examples you can cite... more likely none at all. However, a bike manufacturer might not honor a warranty if there is a clause regarding "unapproved equipment or accessories"... trailers often fall into that category)

"It might be illegal" (Nope, not here in North America (USA; land of the free and home of the brave) where the requirement is that the tires be D.O.T. approved for use on federal highways... there is no distinction is made about whether it is a motorcycle tire or passenger vehicle tire) I could go on and on.

But if you wish to remain ignorant of what actually happens when using a car tire on a bike and the benefits VS actual risk (real, researched and weighted in consideration before acting risk, not any imagined risk) then there is nothing I can say that will change that.

But, if you do become a little curious, then there is this to take look at. It's not the only thing out there so you should investigate what you can regarding the pros and cons and seek items other than just this one... Don't just assume one way or the other without getting information from both sides of the issue.

http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/t7188-for-maxi-scooters-the-darkside-according-to-bandito2-part-1-2

Little change for the better comes without some risk. Thank goodness for the pioneers, the curious, experimenters, those unsatisfied with the status quo, dreamers and the bold to be willing to take and manage risk in order to forge progress for the betterment of all.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 25 May 2017, 14:55

Steve_h80, You can purchase a truck load of scooter tires for the price of one night in the Hospital. Happy Motoring lloyd 193. swing
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Thu 25 May 2017, 19:43

OK, not that I would go Darkside, I suspect the feel would be similar to a squared-off MC tire, Which I dislike, except that it would have deep tread.
I'm guessing it has less tip in on corners and needs more push, which some riders prefer to the knife edge balance of a new MC tire.


When I was a child my mother put Schwinn's tractor rear tire on both the front and rear of my bicycle, this was to make the tires "damage and thorn proof"...

EVERONE laughed at me and ridiculed that I couldn't even put the "right" tires on my bike.

Fast forward 15 years and BAM! The BMX bike was born, with a rear tire on the front as well as the back.
So, you see, what may seen "wrong", may just be ahead of it's time!
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Fri 26 May 2017, 19:45

If not to save money then WHY???
JB
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 00:31

Jolly Bodger wrote:
Bandito2 – Are you really going to argue the definition of “adversely”???
I’m sure you know what I mean and your argument that it is “subjective and ambiguous” is quite frankly ridiculous.

Modernman – I was trying to ask a serious question but if you want to make a joke of it that’s fine.

Gentlemen - At the end of the day it’s your bike, your life, your choice. If you decide that fitting a car tyre is the right thing to do and you are prepared to take that risk (however small) for the sake of saving a few dollars then nothing I say will change that.

And legally you can't even entertain it, so what does it matter to you? You arguing against something you can't do.

Come on over to Washington state and argue with the pot smokers about how wrong it is. Give it a go.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 00:41

bandito2 wrote:
Jolly Bodger wrote:
Bandito2 – Are you really going to argue the definition of “adversely”???
I’m sure you know what I mean and your argument that it is “subjective and ambiguous” is quite frankly ridiculous.

Modernman – I was trying to ask a serious question but if you want to make a joke of it that’s fine.

Gentlemen - At the end of the day it’s your bike, your life, your choice. If you decide that fitting a car tyre is the right thing to do and you are prepared to take that risk (however small) for the sake of saving a few dollars then nothing I say will change that.

I think it is just different, you think it is adversely affected (in the dangerous way of "adversely") and presume that your assertion is the only correct one when it in fact is not.

And for the sake of saving a few dollars is such an old tired response by those that refuse to even consider the idea of using a car tire and can't seem to ever understand... no matter how many times they have been told that saving a little bit of money is not the only reason or very (possibly most) often even the main reason for doing so.

There is such a lack of understanding or even a smidgen of curiosity as to why we do it... Folks just come out first with trying to tell us how wrong they think we are and how dangerous it is with very little to no experience of their own to base that on, expressing opinion as if it were fact, parroting what they may have heard or read in an article before and accepting that as gospel, ignoring the difference between the large number of positive testimonials of experienced users versus the minimal to nearly non-existent reports of negative issues (most without evidence) or just making outright incorrect assumptions on their own.

Assumptions like "It's unsafe" (without any reputable proof) "You risk your life to save a little money" (when saving money often is not the main reason. And there is risk in just about everything. Most do not go into it blindly and do research to help with their assessment of risk before doing it.)

"Car tires were not meant to be put on bike rims and there is danger in the improper fit" (True, car tires were not meant to be mounted on bike rims. But it does work safely enough; at least equally as well as a bike tire. No reports of tire deflation or coming off the rim. If there are reports of that then they have certainly not been any more frequent than similar reports of bike tires doing that. That also goes for car tires supposedly exploding when getting mounted on bike rims when bike tires can do the same.)

"your insurance won't pay for a claim if you use a car tire." (Really? I doubt you have any significant number of examples you can cite... more likely none at all. However, a bike manufacturer might not honor a warranty if there is a clause regarding "unapproved equipment or accessories"... trailers often fall into that category)

"It might be illegal" (Nope, not here in North America (USA; land of the free and home of the brave) where the requirement is that the tires be D.O.T. approved for use on federal highways... there is no distinction is made about whether it is a motorcycle tire or passenger vehicle tire) I could go on and on.

But if you wish to remain ignorant of what actually happens when using a car tire on a bike and the benefits VS actual risk (real, researched and weighted in consideration before acting risk, not any imagined risk) then there is nothing I can say that will change that.

But, if you do become a little curious, then there is this to take look at. It's not the only thing out there so you should investigate what you can regarding the pros and cons and seek items other than just this one... Don't just assume one way or the other without getting information from both sides of the issue.

http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/t7188-for-maxi-scooters-the-darkside-according-to-bandito2-part-1-2

Little change for the better comes without some risk. Thank goodness for the pioneers, the curious, experimenters, those unsatisfied with the status quo, dreamers and the bold to be willing to take and manage risk in order to forge progress for the betterment of all.

All valid points.  

Are you really trying to convince a naysayer of something different?  You would have a better chance to turn Hannity into a Democrat.

There is tons of testimony of people who have and do run car tires on the back of their silverwing here on this forum.  In every one of those threads, we always have someone who has no experience whatsoever in doing so, come in and tell some story about someone's friend that knew a guy who knew a guy who married a woman who's brother put a wheel barrow tire on his Harley and ended up shooting himself in the head from depression.  See, running a non motorcycle tire on a Silverwing is deadly.

This is for the others:  Look at every word in this phrase.  "Contempt prior to investigation."     It is a disease.  You have it.

NOTE: I didn't mention anyone's name. If you think I was talking about you..... then maybe I was.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 02:42

Modernman1953 wrote:

Are you really trying to convince a naysayer of something different?  You would have a better chance to turn Hannity into a Democrat.

Well, sometimes I try to get them to at least LOOK at something that holds something different than their apparent point of view. If not to change their mind, then to try to get them to at least understand why I hold the views I do.

I think if I tried to convince Sean to become a Dem, he might say something like "Nice try, but NO... not the way they are now." Putting that last bit in to give the idea of a possible change of heart, but privately thinking and believing "NEVER!"

It's kind funny in the way naysayers are hypocritical when someone may say to them that riding a bike is dangerous and explain all the reasons why they think so, along with a bunch of fallacies, myths, misinformation and incorrect assumptions. Then the rider will try to explain that it is OK, they are careful and have experience and they know what they are doing and have considered the risks but that they enjoy it anyway... only to be met with a typical response like. "OK, but it's your funeral" or something more critical like: "You just don't care about your safety or the safety of others... there is something wrong with you man."

Sometimes there is no winning of hearts or minds on either side. It may be tiresome at times, but it is worth the effort because sometimes minds do get changed... I've seen it happen before so I know it can be done. Several folks use car tires on the rear of their Honda Reflex and Big Ruckus scooters now... and I know it is because of something I said.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 03:07

If car tyres were that good on motorcycles, why aren't the tyres being fitted as OE by the Big Four? The advantages of them being lauded by the tyre manufacturers with recommendations and fitment guides?  

There's no Moto GP, World Super Bike, or any other motorcycle racing series been sponsored to use the squared off tyres beloved by ”Darksiders' to generate publicity and advertising revenue for the tyre companies. Car tyres would be fitted to military motorcycles by now if they are were any good.

In a nutshell it's just something that you can get away with fitting to motorcycles and maxi scooters in the US, the UK and the rest of Europe are a lot more stringent.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 08:37

Not in the Big Four, but Big none the less! affraid
.....This is the only bike I'd want to go Darkside on lol!

But as the say, "Whatever blows your skirt up"

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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 11:08

Sidewinder Pilot, Displaying the Photo of the Chevrolet Powered Scooter will probably cause half the Participants on this Silver wing site to have a Stroke, Especially that bunch over yonder. Happy Motoring lloyd 193. swing
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 11:40

It's just another chromed lard ass two wheeled pick up for parking up outside a bikers bar or tavern. Lloydy lad, you're impressing no one on this side of the Pond assuming you're an expert on what the rest of us are like, based on your vast experience of a couple of weeks on here and reading a lot of old topics and posts.

Neither is telling everyone how fast you and your Silver Wing are. Off the scoot you're 77 years old and I could assume you'd have trouble trying to run fast up a couple of flights of stairs. But of course I could be wrong.   Smile  

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get ready for dinner with the other at Carl's Brauhaus. I'm looking forward to trying Maltauschen, a Swabian speciality rather like ravioli but a lot larger. It's really hot here in Stuttgart, more like the dry heat of Arizona rather that that horrible sticky humidity you're stuck with in Florida...and the beer is a lot better too.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 12:04


and the riding much better!! I lived in Sindelfingen for several years.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 12:05

Ya gotta wonder what kind of miles those Lard Lad Boss Hoss' actually get ridden in the course of a year.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 12:09

I sold my Langlitz 30 year old jacket! to I think owner of Boss Hog----he complained inside of pockets were dirty. I had to explain to him riding everyday does that! Guess buying old/aged/used jacket was going to give him image of rider.
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 13:51

Meldrew wrote:
If car tyres were that good on motorcycles, why aren't the tyres being fitted as OE by the Big Four? The advantages of them being lauded by the tyre manufacturers with recommendations and fitment guides?
 
Because they refuse to test them for their own reasons (and confirm what Darksiders already know) and so cannot recommend them. They were and are only considered an option by those that can and choose to use them. Also they are known for their different handling aspects which for many may be considered undesirable. They are not legal to use on bikes in some countries. They still could sell them that way to countries that do not restrict them and they do that for some things on bikes, (different braking devices ie; hand brake lever VS foot brake,  lights, mirrors or pollution control devices for example) but not tires.

It is no surprise to me that some bike tire manufacturers are developing/making radial belted tires. Maybe they got the idea partially from Darksiders.


Meldrew wrote:
There's no Moto GP, World Super Bike, or any other motorcycle racing series been sponsored to use the squared off tyres beloved by ”Darksiders' to generate publicity and advertising revenue for the tyre companies.

Car tires on bikes mainly are not used in that way but some drag race bikes use tires that look suspiciously like car tires though. Still, Darksiders don't usually use them that way either. Generally they seem to mostly be used for moderate demand touring, cruising and commuting. Best to use rounded profile bike sport/racing tires for track days, knobby tires for off road riding/racing, general use and dual-sport tires for just about anything else not race related. So it just wouldn't make sense to promote a type of tire at a time and place where it would make no sense to use them there.


Meldrew wrote:
Car tyres would be fitted to military motorcycles by now if they are were any good.

I'm actually a little surprised that they don't... at least not that we are made aware of anyway. It really may depend on what kind of bikes they may be using and for what more specific use they are put to.


Meldrew wrote:
In a nutshell it's just something that you can get away with fitting to motorcycles and maxi scooters in the US, the UK and the rest of Europe are a lot more stringent.

No, it's not only that we can, but that we can and choose to do so for our own reasons. And not being restricted by rules/laws that are imposed upon us by reasoning of others that may actually be unnecessarily restrictive and in conflict with our own reasoning, interests and desires.
(too bad for folks in countries like yours)


Last edited by bandito2 on Sat 27 May 2017, 15:12; edited 1 time in total
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 14:39

Meldrew, I was correct, Seeing that Chevy powered Murdercycle heated your water up instantly. All Knowledge is not contained in the Writings on this sight, Some of us had some Knowledge and experience before you began posting here. Happy Motoring lloyd 193. swing


Last edited by lloyd193 on Sat 27 May 2017, 14:53; edited 1 time in total
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 14:40

Jolly Bodger wrote:
If not to save money then WHY???
JB

You could read this linked item all the way to the bottom of the page to get to this last section.
"DANGER, DANGER!!! (and other random musings)"
It has a bit in it about the  "whys" but for quicker access, just skip to the bottom.

Also, right at the start of Part 2, (right in the very middle of this whole thing) there is "Some things are about equally as bad/good:", "DARK SIDE PROS:" and "DARK SIDE CONS:" that would be worth reading and might help with understanding "why" (or why not)... This thing is not all one sided after all.
http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/t7188-for-maxi-scooters-the-darkside-according-to-bandito2-part-1-2
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 16:14

Most motorcycles can't run a car tire as they have spoke wheels hence they can't run tubeless and one cannot get the bead to seat on a tubeless tire with an inner tube inside of a tubeless tire on a spoke wheel.

But then most naysayers don't know that because they haven't researched the how and why one would use a car tire. They just take pot shots at anything different than themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 16:35

Hey Modernman,

Dunno if I may have asked you this before, or if you've answered this elsewhere, but what darkside tire are you using on your Silverwing now that Sumitomos aren't available?

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 17:21

Let's not forget a few years ago the Darksiders were given there own corner of the forum to chat in Of course you had to ask to play in there and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd have thought you'd all be happy in there mutually slapping each other's backs and telling each other what jolly good chaps you all were. Asking each other if you'd tried that new Yodigoogoo tyre etc.

But obviously it must be dead in there, because you've starved of the oxygen of publicity of this Darksiding nonsense, you have no one to call naysayers etc. There's nothing much to talk about amongst yourselves, so you bring all out into the open again, the same old nonsense and of course the same old answers.

So why don't all the car tyre fetishists go back into their corner and stop deliberately posting click bait.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 17:34

lloyd193 wrote:
Meldrew, I was correct, Seeing that Chevy powered Murdercycle heated your water up instantly. All Knowledge is not contained in the Writings on this sight, Some of us had some Knowledge and experience before you began posting here. Happy Motoring lloyd 193. swing

Nothing of the sort my geriatric friend, and you don't seem to have much knowledge and experience of spelling or grammar since you began posting on here either.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 17:44

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Hey Modernman,

Dunno if I may have asked you this before, or if you've answered this elsewhere, but what darkside tire are you using on your Silverwing now that Sumitomos aren't available?

Tim

165/70/13 Cooper Weather Master. It has a "all weather" tread design. I have about 1,000 miles on this tire. I run it at 40 lbs. Feels just like a regular motorcycle tire. I quit thinking "darkside" unless someone asks about the tire or I see a thread on a forum.

I believe I paid $45 shipped to my door on ebay. It costs me $40 to have it mounted. I took the wheel off myself and it will be the last time I do that myself. I will pay the $100 to have the rim removed and tire mounted. I will go do something else instead of fighting that project again.

I might have to put another tire on the back. Maybe not. I heard that people are getting 40,000 miles on these tires. At 4,000 miles a year.... that will take me 10 years into the future. 63 + 10 = 73 years old. Maybe I will have a 50cc Metropolitan by that time.

Who knows. I just know that the tire was $45 and it will last 10 years.

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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 17:46

Meldrew wrote:
Let's not forget a few years ago the Darksiders were given there own corner of the forum to chat in Of course you had to ask to play in there and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd have thought you'd all be happy in there mutually slapping each other's backs and telling each other what jolly good chaps you all were. Asking each other if you'd tried that new Yodigoogoo tyre etc.

But obviously it must be dead in there, because you've starved of the oxygen of publicity of this Darksiding nonsense, you have no one to call naysayers etc. There's nothing much to talk about amongst yourselves, so you bring all out into the open again, the same old nonsense and of course the same old answers.

So why don't all the car tyre fetishists go back into their corner and stop deliberately posting click bait.

Why don't you go play pocket pool with yourself. Perhaps a moderator can ban you from these types of threads because you bring jack turds to the conversation. Just a horse's behind's attitude.

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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 19:08

I had a quick scan through the link you posted - A lot of it is simply your opinion. And I note that you do say that you darksiders accept the risks associated with DS fitment.

So thank you for proving me correct - there IS some risk however small

I am now done on this matter

JB
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 19:38

With all the discussion not directly related to the question by the  OP, I wonder if he noticed the response by tinman just a wee bit over a year ago. He tried it and so did I. The following; from an edited post of mine from elsewhere on this site:

bandito2 wrote:

So today (Monday Nov. 3, 2014) I put the 175/70R13 on the bike and went out for a 200.7 mile ride to see how it would do. Yes it fits on the bike fine without clearance issues and I never noted any noises or noticed any tire rubbing on the underside of the storage space beneath the seat. The speedometer matches the GPS pretty close speed wise, but the odometer reads off by 3.438% low with that tire.

It tends to keep the bike rolling longer when off the throttle and actually has a nicer feel to it and corners nicer than the 165/65R13. The 165/65R13 is a little more square shouldered than the 175/70R13 so that may be why. I thought it might help with fuel economy, but a 4 mpg improvement seemed not such a big deal to me. The brakes worked only as standard brakes do. The rear wheel I had the 175/70R13 mounted to is a non-ABS wheel and is not drilled and threaded for the pulser ring. The bike naturally is easier to get up onto the center stand, but leans over further when using the side stand.

So the question still remains whether the taller 175/70R13 car tire will have a negative effect on the ABS. With no pulser ring on the rear, the ABS never got past the start up self test and so the ABS light stayed on the entire time with no error flashing. I may get the wheel drilled and tapped so a pulser ring will mount to it sometime in the future.

So that is my initial impressions of the 175/70R13 car tire after only a 200 mile ride. I really would have liked to test the ABS function with that tire. Maybe somebody else can if they use a tire like that with an ABS Silverwing. Otherwise, I won't be doing anything more about it until spring.

Addendum:
I ended up selling that tire attached to a wheel to somebody here that was doing a trike so I never got around to getting it set up and tested to see what affect it may have had on the ABS brakes. (I ended up breaking off a cheap HF tap when trying to get holes done for the pulser ring so that wheel couldn't be used for ABS after that.)

So it did work pretty good IMO as far as the limited test ride was. No problems, but concern that it might rub on the underside did cross my mind. If one uses this size tire, they should think about increasing the pre-load on the shocks... even more if carrying a heavy load or passenger. It might be a stiffer ride, but that should help prevent underside rubbing by the tire on bumps.


Last edited by bandito2 on Sat 27 May 2017, 20:18; edited 1 time in total
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bandito2
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sat 27 May 2017, 20:11

Jolly Bodger wrote:
I had a quick scan through the link you posted - A lot of it is simply your opinion.

AND a lot of it is not mere opinion.


Jolly Bodger wrote:
And I note that you do say that you darksiders accept the risks associated with DS fitment.

Well DUH!! We wouldn't be doing it if the risk was not acceptable. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.


Jolly Bodger wrote:

So thank you for proving me correct - there IS some risk however small

I am now done on this matter

JB

So what? There is risk "however small" even in getting out of bed or riding a bike. Apparently you find the risk level acceptable to do that. Thank you for showing that accepting some risk "however small" should not stop one from doing something they feel is within their comfort zone and capabilities.

You were done before you started... Brits can't do it anyway so Ta-Ta, cheerio and all that.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 28 May 2017, 09:41

Mildew, Thank you for bringing my spelling shortcomings to my attention, I will try to do Butter in the futer. Happy MotorMouthing. lloyd 193. swing
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PostSubject: A Word to the Wise   Sun 28 May 2017, 11:22

Okay fellas, there's too much sniping going on right now on this topic as well as a few others. The administration is about "this far" from dropping the hammer on a couple of serial snipers & malcontents.

Quite recently I've "Locked" two topics because you guys can't play nice. The alternative now is placing offending miscreants in "Time Out" or an outright "Ban". Neither I nor other Admins will start editing or deleting individual posts --though if a post is so 'effed up that it is illegible, irrelevant or seen to be baiting or antagonistic it will get deleted without any explanation. So don't push your luck. Make your point without the contentious remarks.

Tim
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 28 May 2017, 17:24

Chinese Tires from Carshoez on E Bay. I have installed several Summit rear tires over the last year and have been surprised at how round these tires are. Very little weight required for balancing, One or two of these required no weight at all. Overall these are in my opinion good tires at good prices. Wear reports are exceptional, Forty or more thousand miles expected. A 155-70-13 Delivered to your door $64.50 Take a look at these and see what you think. I have been running one of these Summit Tires on one of my PS250 Big Ruckus's, The tire has twelve thousand on it and may be worn a Thirty Second of an inch, I feel sure it will last another Thirty thousand miles. These tires are rounded more on the shoulders than most other car tires and do feel better leaning than those squared off tires. Carshoez will sell one tire at a time. Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 28 May 2017, 18:54

lloyd193 wrote:
Chinese Tires from Carshoez on E Bay. I have installed several Summit rear tires over the last year and have been surprised at how round these tires are. Very little weight required for balancing, One or two of these required no weight at all. Overall these are in my opinion good tires at good prices. Wear reports are exceptional, Forty or more thousand miles expected. A 155-70-13 Delivered to your door $64.50 Take a look at these and see what you think. I have been running one of these Summit Tires on one of my PS250 Big Ruckus's, The tire has twelve thousand on it and may be worn a Thirty Second of an inch, I feel sure it will last another Thirty thousand miles. These tires are rounded more on the shoulders than most other car tires and do feel better leaning than those squared off tires. Carshoez will sell one tire at a time. Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing

Loyd193,
Is there a speed rating for this tire?
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 28 May 2017, 19:36

Easyrider wrote:
lloyd193 wrote:
Chinese Tires from Carshoez on E Bay. I have installed several Summit rear tires over the last year and have been surprised at how round these tires are. Very little weight required for balancing, One or two of these required no weight at all. Overall these are in my opinion good tires at good prices. Wear reports are exceptional, Forty or more thousand miles expected. A 155-70-13 Delivered to your door $64.50 Take a look at these and see what you think. I have been running one of these Summit Tires on one of my PS250 Big Ruckus's, The tire has twelve thousand on it and may be worn a Thirty Second of an inch, I feel sure it will last another Thirty thousand miles. These tires are rounded more on the shoulders than most other car tires and do feel better leaning than those squared off tires. Carshoez will sell one tire at a time. Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing

Loyd193,
Is there a speed rating for this tire?
Yes the speed ratings are listed for each of the tires.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 175 darkside tire   Sun 28 May 2017, 19:36

It is amazing how you can run a 13 inch car tire on bike that came stock with 12 inch wheels!!
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