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 Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions

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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Sat 04 Feb 2012, 19:07

I've been running a J Costa for about 14,000 miles and love the performance. It is developing a problem with holding high revs too long, and being slow to "shift" down at cruising speeds. I put a new belt and pins in this past summer and resorted to adding a little Mobil 1 oil to the bushing. I think the graphite embedded in the bushing is no longer lubricating as it should.

Because of this, and just for grins, I decided to try a HiT clutch from Dr. Pulley. I received it a few days ago and have not yet attempted installation. I also got some 24g Sliders (and will get some 21g sliders via special order in a few weeks) and will be trying them first (mostly because I can pop the variator apart easily).

I have a few questions for the few who have installed the HiT clutch and would appreciate answers. Please bear in mind that I am MORE concerned about excellent acceleration, and LESS concerned about fuel usage. I'm in this for the grin factor! However, I still want the scooter to be drivable in everyday conditions (no wheelies needed!).

First, the clutch arrived with pink and red springs installed. I assume this is for general riding-around, but should also provide better performance than stock. Can anyone confirm this?

If I want to get a better hole-shot, what would I change? I suspect that I would need stronger clutch springs, so that the engine revs higher before the clutch engages.

Do I need to get a special tool (a spring compressor) to install the HiT clutch, or does the rear pulley and spring come off as one unit without the need of spring compression? If a tool is needed, is there a handyman fix available, or do I need to buy something from Honda?

Any help is appreciated.

Philip

I took several pics of the product and will try to attach them when I figure out how to do so. In addition to the clutch, there were eight packets of springs in various weights.
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Sat 04 Feb 2012, 19:15






Couple of pictures of the clutch, springs and torque spring washer.
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aaronb
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 08 Mar 2012, 01:34

buddy19520 wrote:

Do I need to get a special tool (a spring compressor) to install the HiT clutch, or does the rear pulley and spring come off as one unit without the need of spring compression? If a tool is needed, is there a handyman fix available, or do I need to buy something from Honda?

I just installed my HiT clutch over the weekend and it was really simple. You don't need any special tools to replace the clutch itself. There is a single nut that secures the entire driven assembly to the drive shaft. After you remove the variator cover and drive belt, just remove the nut and the whole assembly just slides off as a unit. The clutch assembly will be on the back side of the driven pulleys and is secured by six bolts.

It can be tricky to get enough torque on the nut to remove it. Because of the gear reduction, the rear wheel wants to turn before the nut gives up its grip. An impact wrench is probably ideal if you have one... I didn't, so I had to improvise. I locked the parking brake and pulled both of the brake levers tight with some wire so the rear wheel wouldn't budge. A few quick jerks with a 1/2" ratchet and it came right out.

The last minor hurdle was mounting the HiT clutch to the drive assembly. There was a small burr on the inner diameter of the clutch mounting plate that prevented the unit from seating down on the hub of the driven face. I had to use a small grinder (Dremel) to remove that ridge before I could get it to seat properly (I have attached pics of the spot that I had to grind down). I only removed a small amount of metal (maybe 1/64 to 1/32"), just enough to make it smooth with the rest of the hub.

Put the flange bolts in finger-tight and then torque them down to 20 ft-lb in a criss-cross sequence. Clean the inside of your clutch bell with compressed air and some brake cleaner on a fresh rag. Slide the driven assembly onto the drive shaft and then secure it with the hex nut at 43 ft-lb (check that with your shop manual to be sure... mine has gone walkabout and I'm going from memory). Be sure to clean all of the driven faces with brake cleaner or other degreaser on a fresh rag before you put the belt and covers back on.

If you want to change the pulley spring or add the Dr. Pulley spacer/collars in there, then you will need to safely compress the spring and remove the circlip. It's under a lot of force, so that's a more risky proposition. Either a proper spring compressor tool from Honda or a carefully designed (southern-engineered) homebrew tool is necessary for that job.

Hope that helps...
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 08 Mar 2012, 19:16

I don't have a Silverwing, but I do have a HiT clutch and have seen BurgmanUSA members who have had both good and bad results. So some thoughts that perhaps will transfer to your Silverwing experience.

First, I'd install it as is to establish a baseline. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. On my Burgman 400, the acceleration is what it should be from the factory. Crisp. Smooth. Fast. No slippage or lag from 0-15 mph. The comparison I like to give is one that I think all of us can identify with. You pull out to the right in traffic and realize you misjudged the speed of the car approaching your rear. Gulp! With the OEM setup, you just prayed you'd get moving and the person behind you didn't get too mad. With the HiT clutch, the bike just jumps out and moves. Nice.

I'd take a picture of everything before changing any springs. I don't have the spring packages in front of me, but I believe the yellow "pillow" springs and yellow clutch pad springs on my HiT clutch look the same...but have a different resistance. Mixing them up would be incredibly simple...and give you some crazy results that would be hard to figure out the cause of.

There are some people who've had a bad experience with the HiT clutch. They seem to be on the heavier side...like close to 300 pounds. One member has had a problem also...but before he installed it, he knew better than the designers did and took it all apart to change the spring combinations. And it never worked right again. Go figure.

One BUSA member also was pulling wheelies on his Burgman 400. He went down the block and came back to immediately take it apart. He could not control the wheelie...and it happened every time he opened the throttle. Every time. There isn't a clutch lever where you can control the clutch engagement. Besides the controlability factory, he was also concerned over the stress on the rest of the drivetrain. Something would give...and it would obviously be the most expensive part.

IMHO, it is a very tricky thing to figure out the relationship of the clutch pad engagement and the pillow engagement. So good luck on your testing of this.

Chris
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Wed 14 Mar 2012, 13:02

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:16; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Wed 14 Mar 2012, 22:53

I'm a long-time user of Dr Pulley's HiT Clutch, both the original as well as the newer V4 version.

All the springs are interchangeable, so you are not limited to using the springs which are identified as Clutch springs or Pillow springs for the Push Pins.

The best combination for my type of riding has been to use Black, 10 Kg Clutch springs and Blue 12.5 Kg Pillow springs.

Using that combination the initial 'clutch in' occurs 'about' 2100 rpm while the Push Pins lock up the clutch 'about' 4000 rpm.

Using lighter springs will cause the clutch to engage earlier as well as quite possibly cause clutch chatter during initial engagement if rpm aren't high enough.

Going lighter on the Pillow springs will cause the clutch to lock up at a lower rpm. While eliminating the Pillow springs all together will virtually assure you of doing wheelies.

Lighter is better. Too light may well put you in danger.

Hope this helps,

Tim
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Wed 14 Mar 2012, 22:59

x


Last edited by bigbird on Fri 08 Jun 2012, 11:26; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 15 Mar 2012, 10:37

No Terry, the clutch is not at all grabby under those conditions. As a matter of fact, you could conceivably use very heavy Pillow springs, so that the Push Pins wouldn't activate until very high rpms or not at all, and you'd be hard pressed to distinguish a difference from the OEM clutch

There are enough spring selections supplied with the HiT kit to allow you to tailor the clutch to your own preferences.

And...it's my understanding that you are able to alternate spring weights (spring tensions) on the Push Pin Pillow springs to further tweak the clutch lock up. Similar to alternating slider weights in the variator to achieve different variator performance.

That JCosta variators are known to have a short life and are currently not available the practical solution to addressing the inefficiencies and 'power losses' of the SW transmission would seem to be going to Dr Pulley variator Sliders and their HiT Clutch
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 15 Mar 2012, 10:54

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:16; edited 1 time in total
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 15 Mar 2012, 16:14

The cost is relative. I've had a HiT clutch on my Burgman for almost 28,000 miles. It looks about the same as it was when I put it in.

On the other hand, riding under the same conditions, the OEM clutch was down to metal at 33,500 miles.

I get a little vibration when I'm in stop and go traffic and the rpms are down in the 3000-3800 rpm range. To put that in perspective, the engine isn't "happy" till it is above 4000 and then it is very smooth. The vibration is light and well worth putting up with to get the advantages of the HiT clutch.

The HiT clutch is not cheap, but you get a positive lockup when you initially accelerate. The lag from 0-15 mph is gone. That alone is worth it for some people. Considering I will probably keep this bike till I reach 100,000 miles, this will likely be the only clutch I by. The wear is that little.

When I ride with one of my daughters, the HiT clutch is a benefit also. With the OEM clutch, I had a lot of trouble getting out of my own way from any initial acceleration from a stop. That 0-15 mph was very tedious as the clutch slipped a lot. With the HiT clutch, that is gone. It is still slower, but the clutch is not the issue.

Chris
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Just got a HiT clutch and have a few questions   Thu 15 Mar 2012, 16:47

bigbird, I did install the HiT clutch (probably the same day as I posted the original questions and pictures).

The install went pretty easy. Same steps as changing the belt or variator, but add additional steps of
set the parking brake
wrap strap around left brake lever
use socket wrench to remove nut holding clutch pulley (it came off easy)
slide off clutch pulley
remove six bolts holding clutch to clutch pulley
clean everything
reverse steps to re-install

I put the HiT clutch in as it came out of the box. Red and pink springs were already installed.

As to how it performs, bear in mind that I have a J Costa variator on its second set of pins. Cleaning the JC and applying a small amount of wheel bearing grease to the brass bushing inset in the JC has the JC working just about right (it has gone through periods of stickiness, which leads to over-revving). The HiT clutch was initially grabby, but as I've put a few hundred miles on it, it has gotten almost as smooth as the factory clutch.

With the pink/red spring combo, the initial engagement is about 2700 rpm, but you really don't start to move till you're doing 3000 rpm. If accelerating hard (WOT) there will be a slight bump between 3500 and 4000 rpm (hard to tell exactly where) and it zips away. It definitely takes off quicker than stock with J Costa. It used to always take off a bit leisurely until you were doing about 15 mph, at which point it would pull strongly. Now it pulls strongly almost immediately. Midrange cruising speeds get a more immediate increase in speed - kind of the difference in acceleration between a large displacement V8 vs a smaller, higher-revving 4 or 6 cylinder that has to spool up to accelerate.

Overall, its a nice improvement. Its not as dramatic as a J Costa variator, but its noticeable. Is it worth $375? It depends upon your discretionary income. If you are interested in saving money because you might get better gas mileage, I'd say don't bother. You'll never make up $375 in gas savings. Like any performance enhancer, you will probably utilize the added performance.

What do I like about it? First, since it doesn't start to engage until 3000 rpm, there is no dashboard rumble. Even though it engages high, it is no harder to use at low speeds. Second, your hole shot is improved a lot. Third, cruising speed acceleration is stronger. I expect to ride to the Blue Ridge Parkway Sunday, and I'm looking forward to see how it powers out of curves.

I'm going to leave it alone for now - it works well out of the box. But, next time the J Costa starts getting sticky, I am going to try some Dr Pulley sliders. I bought 24g and 21g sets for when the J Costa wears out.
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RAYJASPER
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PostSubject: Dr.Pulley HiT clutch   Sat 16 Jun 2012, 03:47

Here's some information which might be helpful for installation of SR, HiT and
spring combinations used in HiT282001 for Honda Silver Wing 600.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kee3aQWINss --Installation of Dr.Pulley Sliding Roller.wmv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJo7wMohxSE --Honda Silver Wing 600 with HiT282011,SR28gm, Walkman 1.MPG ,2012,June,16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOZbvsvTWuY - Silver Wing 600 with HiT282011,SR28gm, walkman field test2, 3-BL6.5kg & a-RD12.5.MOV , 2012,June,16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxy59CDWck -- Silver Wing 600 with HiT282011,SR28gm,walkman field test 1, 3-BL6.5kg & 1-BK10 kg.MOV, 2012,June,16
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