I change my riding position based on the riding I do, mood and joint pain. That is one of the highly attractive parts about owning a Swing or maxi scooter. Those long continuous floor boards give you lots of room to dance.

On the highway I end up leaning slightly forward above 65 mph - it puts my helmet in less turbulent air. Legs go forward against the front floorboards unless I really want to get into a racing form. Then they go back. Sometimes the lean forward is with back straight, but often I slouch as it keeps my arms straighter. Either way it's to keep my head down behind the windshield.

At lower highway speeds or country roads I might sit up very straight, even stretching to look over the tall Givi. For parking lot riding the legs go straight down as if I was in a chair.

For rough roads at low speed I put my feet almost straight below me on the edge of the floor board cutout. Lets me stand a tiny bit.

And for everything there is an exception - one leg forward the other back, then switch etc. all based on how my joints feel at the moment and what feels balanced.

Oh, at high speed on the highway, I make like a shy girl and bring my knees together - gets the knees out of the cold wind. Legs forward keeps the knees and shins warmer but my butt and outer thighs gets colder air. Feed further back cools the shins and knees and protects the butt.

One thing I can't do is lean way back - my arms are not long enough.

If nothing else this thread has proved how versatile the 'Wing' can be and the different ways of maneuvering it around.

Learned a lot. albeit I doubt I will use any of the techniques as I am quite comfortable with my own style of riding!!

Actually you and John are both counter steering, whether you think you are steering with your butt or John thinks he is steering with his feet. You are both shifting your weight to initiate a lean AND moving the handle bars with your hands whether you feel like that is the case or not. If that was not the case you would both either keep going in a straight line and/or just fall over whils still traveling in a straight line. Ther is an excellen description of this in David Hough's book, "Proficient Motorcycling", an excellent book that many should read. What you have discovered and are now doing is "concious" push steering with your hands as oppposed to unconcious push steering.

Ishkatan wrote:

john grinsel wrote: Feet Forward for max. control. Feet and legs impportant to control. Press right with foot go right, etc Very strange. I have never used my feet to control the Swing. I steer one of two ways - with my butt or with my hands. I've been getting away from steering with my butt as it is much harder at high speed. Works OK at low speed but it is still hard to counter lean if I use that to steer the bike. When I used to go into a curve using butt steering I found it hard to get the bike to lean enough and making the turn often felt like I was fighting the bike. It took a while but I finally discovered what my safety class instructors meant by counter-steering. At above about 25 mph I push forward on the left handlebar to turn left. The bike leans left and turns left. Weird but it works and makes it very easy turn, swerve etc. Only a little bit causes a lot of reaction so if you are not aware of doing it in the past be careful. Below a certain speed the counter-steering does not work that well and simply pointing the wheel where I want to go is what works. Around 20 mph butt steering still seems to work and can be fun. One result of counter-steering is that I am less afraid to lean my bike in turns. I also use counter balancing more often. My feet simply go where it's comfortable.

Favorite riding position? It depends. Probably 85% of the time I'm feet forward on the angle. But if I'm riding at a more, shall we say, spirited, pace, my feet are as far back as I can get them. I feel like I have more weight on my arms and thus the front wheel. If it's cold or wet, I'm tucked-in feet forward 100% of the time.

But really, isn't it a great feature of the SWing that we can choose where to put our feet instead of being limited to a pair of pegs or short floorboards?

Just a thought:

I tend to ride feet-forwards and keep my legs still because I feel comfortable like that.
However, I've been having some discomfort at the back of my left knee for a while and been feeling somewhat run-down of late.
Last week I suffered some agonizing (for me) back pain - it was like muscle-spasm - so much so that I ended up in hospital on Saturday suffering from a pulmonary embolism.
When the diagnosis had finally been made, the first question every doctor asked was whether I'd been on an aeroplane journey recently.
I said no but that I'd spent some longish hours on the Silverwing the previous weekend in particular, sitting very still.
At first the specialist pooh-poohed this but over the course of the five days did admit that it was certainly a major contributing factor.
I'm home, kitted-out with needles and pills, but have a way to go before I'm as near 100% as I was before.
I am determined to continue to stop at least once every hour and to damn-well make sure I move my legs OFTEN when I'm in the saddle.

Look after yourself Mike and please make a speedy recovery!

Thanks, Steve.
I was lucky to have had such good treatment, both from my GP and the hospital - everyone was very kind.
I will be very careful and follow what I've decided to the letter.

For my UK brothers and sisters: it was a pleasant experience being in a hospital (in Belgium) where all the staff spoke English. I'll say no more.

Sorry guys but I am just not understanding the concept of steering with you butt and counter steering. I will pick up the book of Proficient Motorcycling and pick up some more ideas on ridding.

For Mike O-----Hope you are all right---what I have found, still riding some pretty high mileages and being 72 and having spent an awful lot of saddle time==I get off every hour or 50 miles which ever comes first, motorcycle or scooter, this might slow your down a little bit, but at end of day you feel better. I ride/rode SilverWing feet first, feet and legs being an active part of 2 wheel riding. Old, you have to pee often, so the stops are needed anyway, especially when cold.

For John 123----I have been riding before "countersteering" words became popular. And have argued the thoughts. Bears and monkies can ride bikes and wouldn't know the words.

So----want to go right think right----that is in feet forward position, press right foot. My take hands and bars will follow. Logic---how else can bike be ridden "no hands"??? Not greatest to test with scooter. Just pushing or pulling on bars is just part of the deal. Secret=you are active part of bike----rather than being just plopped on seat. Hard to stand on pegs on scooter, I do it everyday on my motorcycle, to ease bumps or hop curbs, etc.

MSF courses aren't very good but hope you have at least taken one.

Don't worry about the words.

Can you ride a bicycle?
If so, you already know you lean when turning.
Same thing for any 2 wheeled vehicle.
It should come intuitively. You should never have to fight the Swing, unless you're going into a turn too quickly.
When you turn, you gently lean your whole body in the direction of the turn. As you're leaning, your hands on the bars are automatically counter steering for you. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to lean over while turning.

Like bigbird says it's pretty natural, if you lean as you come to a turn, you will automatically push steer whether you think about it or not. Remember at very slow speeds, you still turn like you would a bicycle, i.e. turn with your hands in the direction of the turn, but once you get up over 20 KPH or so, you no longer do that. If you try and turn the bars in the direction of the turn, without leaning or starting a push turn, at speeds over 20-30 KPH you wll find out pretty quickly that it will not turn.

I would still recommend that book for first time riders, it is excellent.

john123 wrote:

Sorry guys but I am just not understanding the concept of steering with you butt and counter steering. I will pick up the book of Proficient Motorcycling and pick up some more ideas on ridding.

Answering a question-----you can ride bike/scooter at 80mph no hands----surely that a speed where the bike goes left before right.(Countersteering) Parking lot speeds hands off might equal a flop no hands

As to MSF-----designed to sell bikes, sponsored by industry. Make it too hard=hurt sales.

My MSF instructor card is dated 1974-----had experience in Europe as Safety Manager of re-training people who already had MSF card and US licenses-----many could not ride way out of parking lot, much less at the speeds required to ride there

with feet forward I can press myself against the backrest. I feel more connected with the bike

I would rather on top, on the seat, than under it, But that's just me.