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 Cooling Issues

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ThePPH
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 67
Location : Fountain Hills, Arizona
Points : 2463
Registration date : 2011-04-27

PostSubject: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 16:53

Obviously temperatures here in Arizona are hot. We just experienced nearly 118 degrees over the weekend and twice I have noticed that my 2004 Silverwing has increased temperature on the gauge all the way to the top where the light comes on.

It never does this while I am moving along over 30mph. I never hear a fan turn on to cool the motor ever! I do hear the sound of the motor change from 55mph to 60 and then at 65mph the sound is completed to where it sounds as if the motor is running at its preferred cruising speed based on the comfy sound that it makes.

I do not think my cooling fan is working otherwise it should kick on in high heat situations even when the scooter is at idle correct?

I was wondering if anyone else has this same issue. Can you hear when the cooling fan kicks on?

I guess I should check the fluid to see if it is low. I live in Arizona so I can use distilled water without glycol and add a little water wetter to keep the coolant temps even lower.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated as to what I should do next.

Scott
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GaryL
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Number of posts : 237
Age : 65
Location : Casa Grande, Arizona
Points : 2919
Registration date : 2010-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 17:13

PPH,

I ride in the same heat, and my scoot never goes over 3 bars (Halfway). From what you have said, I would definately think that there is something wrong with the fan (or low coolant). The fan is pretty quiet, but you can hear it when stopped. I would check the fuse and make sure that it is OK. If it is, then either the temp sensor, fan relay or fan motor is kaput. I don't have it handy, but I think the shop manual has a troubleshooting diagram for this problem.
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ThePPH
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 67
Location : Fountain Hills, Arizona
Points : 2463
Registration date : 2011-04-27

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 17:30

Thanks Gary, The first time it happened to me a few weeks back I figured my cooling fan was not working because I would definitely have heard it at idle if it had ever worked since I have been riding the scoot. I will check the fuse and begin checking off everything on the list en route to finding out what the real problem is and of course fix the issue before I turbo charge this thing.
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bigbird
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Number of posts : 2479
Location : Winnipeg
Points : 5417
Registration date : 2010-05-02

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 17:34

ThePPH wrote:
Thanks Gary, The first time it happened to me a few weeks back I figured my cooling fan was not working because I would definitely have heard it at idle if it had ever worked since I have been riding the scoot. I will check the fuse and begin checking off everything on the list en route to finding out what the real problem is and of course fix the issue before I turbo charge this thing.

Do you own a shop manual?
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ThePPH
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 67
Location : Fountain Hills, Arizona
Points : 2463
Registration date : 2011-04-27

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 17:44

Nope, unfortunately all the scooter came with was the title and original tool pack.

I did notice that there was no coolant in the overflow tank. I am thinking about flushing everything and starting fresh with distilled water/water wetter with a little coolant for corrosion resistance. I am running a 0W 40 Mobil 1 synthetic oil so the oil is likely handling the heat ok but whatever I can do to make the cooling system work best in this heat I am certainly willing to do it.

Once I get through with all of the maintenance that needs to be done to get this SWing as good as new I have a mechanic that is taking $2,000 of my money and about 2 weeks with the scooter to get it running the way I want it. I think he is going to work out a T2 turbo and tune it for 91 pump gas and a tune for 100 octane fuel for testing off road purposes.

Another thing I need to address is the belt. I know the CVT belt drives the transmission ratios. How does the motor actually propel the rear drive wheel? Is this a belt, shaft or chain?

Thanks,
Scott
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bigbird
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Number of posts : 2479
Location : Winnipeg
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Registration date : 2010-05-02

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 17:54

1) 0w-40? In 118F heat?

2) No coolant in the overflow tank?

3) $2k for a turbo?

4) No service manual?

5) You know about Water Wetter, but not about checking your overflow tank when your engine overheats?
You know about octane ratings and dynos, yet you ask how does the motor actually propel the rear wheel?


Sorry Scott, but every time I read one of your posts I just laugh. You're in way over your head if what you say is all true. I get the feeling you're trying to pull someone's chain here.
Maybe the joke's on all us technical types.

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ThePPH
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 67
Location : Fountain Hills, Arizona
Points : 2463
Registration date : 2011-04-27

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 18:12

I'm actually being truthful so I apologize if I come across a little erratic regarding what I do know and what I don't know yet. I've done my share of racing sport compacts but never rode a two wheeled vehicle aside from a Honda Gyro 50 back in the early 90s.

I have been really hesitant about taking fairings and the other plastic parts off of the bike because of my lack of knowledge. I have no clue what actually drives the rear wheel but my presumption is that there is a shaft coming direct from the engine that turns the drive wheel. Most cycles I notice have chains to drive the rear wheel except for BMW.

So forgive my ignorance on certain things. I wouldn't come on here and jokingly ask questions that make me look like an idiot. 0W 40 Mobil 1 synthetic is supposed to be just the same as 10W 40 oil - I elected to use the auto oil over the motorcycle oil because it is a little cheaper and it should protect as well - I remember reading something about wet clutch not being an issue on the Honda Silverwing.

As far as spending money to turbo the scoot. Yes I am willing to put my trust in my local motorcycle shop mechanic.

I am slowly developing more and more confidence when it comes to performing basic maintenance on this scooter. I did my first oil change, changed to a K&N air filter and I recently replaced a burned out turn signal/running light in the front.

So, some things I have confidence in and understand but there is so much more that I don't understand but am trying to learn. Take it for what it's worth bigbird. I hope you won't be condescending but I cannot do anything about that so flame away if you prefer. If you don't mind answering questions that you have knowledge about then by all means chime in.

Thanks,
Scott
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bigbird
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Number of posts : 2479
Location : Winnipeg
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PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 18:32

ThePPH wrote:
Take it for what it's worth bigbird. I hope you won't be condescending but I cannot do anything about that so flame away if you prefer. If you don't mind answering questions that you have knowledge about then by all means chime in.
Thanks,
Scott

I won't be condescending. I also won't flame you. I will just sit back now and be an observer on this one.

My last suggestion will be to get a service manual from helminc
here:

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=AHC&Model=SCOO&Year=2004&Category=1&class%5F2=AHC&mk=Honda+Motorcycle&yr=2004&md=Scooters&dt=Shop%2FService+Information&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=61MCT09&itemtype=N

Best of luck in your endeavours.
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GaryL
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Number of posts : 237
Age : 65
Location : Casa Grande, Arizona
Points : 2919
Registration date : 2010-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 18:39

Scott,

Since you have no shop manual and the coolant overflow tank is empty, the first thing I would do is check for coolant in the radiator. Open the right fairing pocket door and remove the screw right in front. Once you do that, you can remove the whole pocket, door and all. If it's like mine, it won't come without a fight, but it will come. Once the pocket is out, look inside and to the left, and you will see the radiator cap. Open this when the scoot is COLD (Never HOT), and fill it up with whatever you are using. Make sure that the cap is put back on completely, and then fill the coolant overflow tank (under where the pocket is... there is a rubber cap on top). I would fill it up to about 1 inch over the top of the MAX line, to allow for additional bubbles coming out of the system once operating. Put the cap back on, and make sure that the little rubber tube from just under the radiator cap is connected to the overflow tank. Put the pocket back in, and go for a ride. Until it stabilizes, I would check the coolant level frequently. Once this is done, then you can check for proper fan operation when hot.

Good luck!
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ThePPH
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 67
Location : Fountain Hills, Arizona
Points : 2463
Registration date : 2011-04-27

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 18:49

Thank you Gary. I think I will do that a little later on when I get off of work. I would not have known that there is a screw inside the pocket to loosen before opening up the fairing. I'd really like to replace every piece of plastic on the front of my Silverwing. It looks like it has spend every day out in the Arizona sun since 2004.

I think some of my clips are broken because everything is wilted and not perfectly flush.

thanks again. I am sure that my radiator needs filling but I know the fan isn't working properly either because I'd hear it run for sure.
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AAAA
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider


Number of posts : 443
Points : 3062
Registration date : 2010-11-14

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Tue 05 Jul 2011, 22:15

+1 Bigbird
Why didn't you just start with a more appropriate bike? The silverwing engine your going to turbo, cant handle the type of pressures your planning to introduce to it. Now, im getting ready to sell one of my road racing bikes, if your interested, its time to retire the gsxr anyway! Twisted Evil
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honda_silver
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Number of posts : 2457
Location : Georgetown, Tx
Points : 5789
Registration date : 2008-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Wed 06 Jul 2011, 01:08

GaryL wrote:
Until it stabilizes, I would check the coolant level frequently. Once this is done, then you can check for proper fan operation when hot.
+1

Some people when they have completely drained the coolant have gotten air bubbles in the line preventing the coolant from going through the whole system.

So carefully watch your temperature after adding.

If the temperatures still rise, you will have to let the air bubbles out below. I believe there may be a pictorial for this.
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john grinsel
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Registration date : 2009-08-18

PostSubject: Re: Cooling Issues   Wed 06 Jul 2011, 09:29

My take------before you waste money on olderbike-----trade in and enjoy a new one, with service manual thrown in the deal, and spare belt.

Do basic checks before riding.

New is almost always better and has warranty.

John Grinsel
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