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Waspie Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 1739 Age: 60 Location: Portland, UK Points: 2905 Registration date: 2009-07-26
 | Subject: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:09 am | |
| Now the sun is upon us, (here in the UK at least).
I have started to ride with my main beam on. Only when the sun is behind me. (So obviously day time only.) I feel the additional illumination with the sun at my back has increased my visibility for drivers coming towards me.
Since I have started this I have not had anyone attempting to overtake vehicles traveling towards me thereby endangering me. No one has flashed me or indicated my side and main beam combination is too bright.
Does anyone else use this technique? I reckon any aid we have to increase our two wheeled road presence a definite advantage. |
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dspevack Site Admin

Number of posts: 1146 Age: 47 Location: Miami, FL Points: 2588 Registration date: 2008-12-27
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:11 am | |
| In the states, daytime lighting for motorcycles is a requirement. _________________ I ride on two wheels cause I feel very unsafe on one wheel.Dan in Miami. The king of custom! Check out my bike mods hereReality is irrelevant. Its perception that counts. Control people's perceptions, and you control their reality. |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:44 am | |
| Can you legally run a headlight modulator in the UK?
If so that will increase your road presence by another tenfold over just having the high beam on.
Another option, though not aesthetically pleasing to some, is to wear a high viz yellow helmet in addition to a high viz jacket or vest. You may be misidentified as a police member, but you'll jump out to everyone approaching you.
Better to be seen than injured or dead is my motto. |
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MikeO Site Admin

Number of posts: 1724 Age: 62 Location: Western Europe Points: 2867 Registration date: 2009-06-29
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:49 am | |
| Can you legally run a headlight modulator in the UK?
Unfortunately, no. The only flashing lights allowed are indicators unless it's an emergency vehicle. _________________ Mike - Riding on the right - riding for pleasure!
'09 Silverwing 600 - 'The Winged Express' - Delta Blue, ABS, Heated Grips, Givi Airflow Screen, Utopia rider's backrest, Givi pillion backrest & E52 Topbox, Cortech Super Mini Tank Bag as a tunnel-bag, Starcom Digital Comms System.
www.x9ownersclub.co.uk - for all Maxi-Riders who want to RIDE!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
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Buickguy Scooter Rider

Number of posts: 86 Points: 504 Registration date: 2011-04-09
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:00 am | |
| I usually ride with my main beam on during the daylight hours. I reserve the dipped beam for nighttime use. |
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Meldrew Silver Wing Expert


Number of posts: 602 Age: 61 Location: Cumbria, England UK Points: 1163 Registration date: 2010-11-16
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:31 am | |
| Hi viz gear is a good idea, but here in the UK, Health and Safety regulations mean high viz clothing is compulsory for lots of jobs and has lost a lot of visual impact. Joe Public can also buy hi viz gear cheaply from just about any street market.
It's worn by road construction and repair crews, plant operators, delivery couriers, refuse collectors, truck drivers, building construction workers, just about anyone working down a hole, charity collectors, cyclists, dog walkers, joggers, rail maintenance crews, parking wardens, yobs doing their community service work, the bloke who used to come round to read your gas meter, a hi viz vest is usually de rigeur for any self important saddo wandering round with a clipboard, and of course motorcyclists. |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 1739 Age: 60 Location: Portland, UK Points: 2905 Registration date: 2009-07-26
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:29 am | |
| Agree 100% Meldrew, and most motorcycles have dipped beam as standard these days. So a motorcyclist riding down a busy street, Hi-Vis and dipped beam on isn't going to really stand out.
So the addition of Hi-beam in daylight is something I have adapted to stand out that little bit more.
On this board alone we have had several near misses of late and an actual near fatal SMIDSY.
So Be Seen!!!!!! |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:22 am | |
| My understanding is that Hi-Viz yellow is the most visible colour to the human eye. I don't think that because the gas meter reader and the paper boy are wearing Hi-Viz that its effectiveness at being seen on 2 wheels is reduced. There must be a very good reason why all of our police forces, when doing traffic work, are wearing it. |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 1739 Age: 60 Location: Portland, UK Points: 2905 Registration date: 2009-07-26
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:03 am | |
| Bigbird, it is the amount of folk now wearing Hi-Vis in the UK that neutralises its effectiveness. As Meldrew pointed out, even dog walkers wear the stuff. Delivery drivers wear it - nigh on every one!!!! Kinda nulls out the whole point of it for us riders.
ROSPA, a road safety organisation wrote an article about light blindness, (including Hi Vis,) In that if every one were to adopt lighting/Hi-Vis clothing all the time then it wouldn't be 'highly' visible in that it would simply blend in and the eye wouldn't see it as any out of the ordinary because it wasn't an uncommon sight.
Re your comment about Police forces etc. Here in the UK it is worn because the Health and Safety executive tell us we have to!!! HAve they done any research into it - Nope! |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:13 am | |
| If everyone is wearing it then pity the poor motorcyclist who isn't. He'd be damn near invisible I would think. |
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Meldrew Silver Wing Expert


Number of posts: 602 Age: 61 Location: Cumbria, England UK Points: 1163 Registration date: 2010-11-16
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:22 am | |
| I have an Icon Hi Viz Military-Spec vest, all my bike suits, helmets, and even gloves have reflective patches, we've been headlights on here in the UK for many years now, but it still comes down to my own reactions when dealing with the idiots you come across every day.
As for being mistaken for a police officer or vehicle dressed up in hi viz gear, bikers here had the same theory years ago when white fibreglass fairings were common, and you could add to the illusion by wearing a white helmet..
Nowadays from the back, what we initially think is the familiar red and yellow hi viz reflective chevrons of Police, Fire & Rescue, or Ambulance vehicles, could be a Coastguard, Mountain Rescue, Bomb Disposal, Highways Agency, or one of dozens of company vehicles with the same hi viz reflective stripes at the rear. So it's a lot different riding around on our crowded little island, and the attitude of thinking everyone else on the road is a dickhead apart from you will serve you well. |
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honda_silver Site Admin

Number of posts: 2258 Age: 51 Location: Georgetown, Tx Points: 3605 Registration date: 2008-12-23
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:19 am | |
| | Waspie wrote: | | I have started to ride with my main beam on. Only when the sun is behind me. (So obviously day time only.) I feel the additional illumination with the sun at my back has increased my visibility for drivers coming towards me. |
From "Proficient Motorcycling", the sun's shadow points to the dangerous blind-spot.
| Waspie wrote: | | Does anyone else use this technique? |
I replaced both my halogen bulbs with HID bulbs, which greatly helps my visibility both in distance and standing out.
When I approach any vehicle I try to counter-steer toward the vehicle then counter-steer away from the vehicle at least twice which helps two ways.
1) The straight on headlight is stronger than the peripheral headlight. The light difference is significant and perceivable.
2) The multiple counter-steer create a weaving effect. One of the strongest trait of all living creatures is "fight-or-flight" (unless someone is not paying attention in which case someday they could win a Darwin Award). The weave movement helps in multiple ways
a) creates movement which help me to be more visible to people watching
b) some people may only pay attention to a narrow portion of road (since they are typically looking for car/trucks which are wider), so the weave causes you to cover more road width
c) in your example it would allow me to weave in and out of the blind sunspot
d) I have driven several cars where the roof supports create a small blind spots without the drivers realizing ... so anything to get out of the vehicle blindspot helps._________________ Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire  |
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Windrider Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts: 133 Age: 73 Points: 827 Registration date: 2010-07-05
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:07 am | |
| Bill, I like your ideas. I ride with the high beams on and wear bright colors, my Helment is a dard red. |
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honda_silver Site Admin

Number of posts: 2258 Age: 51 Location: Georgetown, Tx Points: 3605 Registration date: 2008-12-23
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:37 pm | |
| | Windrider wrote: | | I ride with the high beams on and wear bright colors, my Helment is a dard red. |
I wear a white helmet, my gear (Hi-Viz with reflective tape) and my 3M Solas tape ... everyone's first opinion is Police
_________________ Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire  |
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Meldrew Silver Wing Expert


Number of posts: 602 Age: 61 Location: Cumbria, England UK Points: 1163 Registration date: 2010-11-16
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:01 pm | |
| | honda_silver wrote: | I wear a white helmet, my gear (Hi-Viz with reflective tape) and my 3M Solas tape ... everyone's first opinion is Police
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You can only assume that, you don't know for certain.
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Buickguy Scooter Rider

Number of posts: 86 Points: 504 Registration date: 2011-04-09
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:00 pm | |
| | Waspie wrote: | Bigbird, it is the amount of folk now wearing Hi-Vis in the UK that neutralises its effectiveness. As Meldrew pointed out, even dog walkers wear the stuff. Delivery drivers wear it - nigh on every one!!!! Kinda nulls out the whole point of it for us riders.
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Much like car alarms in the US. At one time they would attract attention with an unusual sound and flashing lights. Now that they are ubiquitous, no one pays attention any more. |
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honda_silver Site Admin

Number of posts: 2258 Age: 51 Location: Georgetown, Tx Points: 3605 Registration date: 2008-12-23
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:48 pm | |
| | Meldrew wrote: | | You can only assume that, you don't know for certain. |
When I am stopped and if people see me in my gear ... if I am asked a question the first question is typically ... Are you a policeman or fireman?
At night or if the light shines on my windshield, cars coming at my direction will hit their brakes ( as observed in reflections and observed by other drivers) due to where I put my white reflective tape.
At night, cars coming behind will typically slow down behind me (due to red oscillating or flashing for braking and reflective tape) ... they are very slow to pass me when they finally are about even to me they speed up and continue because it was not till that point they determined I was not police.
I am curious if have you ever noticed a Police vehicle without it lights on ... either at in the distance, or unmarked, sitting on the side of the road before you pass it. It could have been the shape, a reflection, or visible equipment. People tend to scan for Police vehicles ... even hitting their brakes when they are doing the speed limit.
All they have to do is notice anything on my SilverWing - white helmet - white reflective tape throughout - yellow reflective tape on my gear - LEDs visible from the side and back
So the more visible I am, the more people must access their risk. Even if they later determine I am not the Police ... they still had to access what I am.
I plan on adding a small snippet of reflective tape to the wheels ... small enough to create a white flash to vehicles approaching me from the sides
_________________ Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire  |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 1739 Age: 60 Location: Portland, UK Points: 2905 Registration date: 2009-07-26
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:51 pm | |
| | Buickguy wrote: | | Waspie wrote: | Bigbird, it is the amount of folk now wearing Hi-Vis in the UK that neutralises its effectiveness. As Meldrew pointed out, even dog walkers wear the stuff. Delivery drivers wear it - nigh on every one!!!! Kinda nulls out the whole point of it for us riders.
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Much like car alarms in the US. At one time they would attract attention with an unusual sound and flashing lights. Now that they are ubiquitous, no one pays attention any more. |
Exactly. |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:58 pm | |
| Many things are a lot different in the UK than in N. America. Attitudes about being seen on 2 wheels now should be added to that list. I hope the day never comes over here when wearing Hi-Viz gear is deemed as not being beneficial to one's street presence. |
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trouble1100 Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts: 176 Age: 55 Location: Plum Pa Points: 1012 Registration date: 2010-04-30
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:04 pm | |
| The theory says that adding a "triangle of light" to the front of a motorcycle will increase its visibility. Yellow or amber will enhance the pattern and make you stand out from all the other traffic. I have mounted LED’s with yellow lenses low on the front forks to mimic the Goldwing, this makes the unusual triangle shape which catches cagers’ attention. I have done the fog light thing since the early 70’s on my vehicles and is a very good attention getter. When I work the graveyard shift the person I relieve knows that it’s me checking in at the guard shack -- he says I look like an alien space ship.  |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:49 pm | |
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masscoot Touring Scooter Rider


Number of posts: 343 Location: Central New England Points: 1514 Registration date: 2009-03-24
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:30 pm | |
| | honda_silver wrote: | 2) The multiple counter-steer create a weaving effect. One of the strongest trait of all living creatures is "fight-or-flight" (unless someone is not paying attention in which case someday they could win a Darwin Award). The weave movement helps in multiple ways
a) creates movement which help me to be more visible to people watching. |
Great point Bill. I've also noticed that when you weave toward them (and their watching) they will make positive eye contact, something I do to every driver who may cross my driving line.
Great stable trouble1100, and cute dog! |
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buddy19520 Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts: 286 Location: Cornelius NC Points: 1129 Registration date: 2010-02-27
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:27 pm | |
| Ron, I've done the same thing with lights attached to the fork. I wanted the separation from the headlight; some motorcycles with light bars just look like one big light from a distance. I think three separate lights stand out more.
Bill, great idea on the weave. I've been doing that (when I remember) for the last few months, and it does seem to cause drivers to take notice.
As a general note - I have parked my Silverwing on my street (center stand, engine running, low beam) and walked 100-150 feet away. Even though I have adjusted my light to properly light the road at night, it really did NOT stand out very much in the daytime. My rule is to either run my fork lights (50 watts each), or run the high beam during the day. The high beam stands out much more than the low.
Even with the additional wattage, my battery has never complained or needed trickle charging. |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:42 pm | |
| Here's a shot of me in my Joe Rocket summer mesh jacket with Icon Hi-Viz vest and Schuberth C3 Hi-Viz helmet.  |
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Meldrew Silver Wing Expert


Number of posts: 602 Age: 61 Location: Cumbria, England UK Points: 1163 Registration date: 2010-11-16
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:49 pm | |
| OK, points out of 10, I like the Schuberth reading light mounted on your C3 helmet, nice jacket, and vest, decent sized saddlebags, and from a personal view the top case could be a lot bigger maybe Givi E52 or E55. I myself stopped riding in jeans may years ago, and I've read in a couple of recent UK forum posts of paramedics and A&E staff having trouble cutting off Kevlar lined jeans. So I'll give you an excellent 8, and as you're a Canadian I may need your advice about poutine later on this year. |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
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wingnprayer Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts: 155 Points: 1300 Registration date: 2009-06-27
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:48 pm | |
| Ironically even the police sometimes suffer from SMIDSY ('Sorry mate I didn't see ya') as this clip shows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoUaH6wGLs |
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bigbird Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts: 2164 Location: Winnipeg Canada Points: 3061 Registration date: 2010-05-02
 | Subject: Re: 'Lighting' Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:53 pm | |
| | wingnprayer wrote: | | Ironically even the police sometimes suffer from SMIDSY |
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, as there's no smiley or LOL on your comment. If you're serious, that collision was intentional. The guy on the bike was a bank robber and kidnapper. |
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