Wife was driving to work this morning. Swing started vibrating badly and the brakes failed. She was able to pull into a gas station and called me for help. When I got there, I could pull both brake levers right to the grips with no resistance. Dang scary. Lucky she was only going about 20mph. Had it towed to the shop. We will see what they say. It's a 2009 with about 3600 miles. Any one hear of a similar situation?

"Vibrating badly", then total brake loss? I can only think that a caliper came loose, tangled with the wheel and a brake line got cut.

I've never heard of a total brake loss on the SW before.

Please let us know what the problem turns out to be.

I am no mechanic, but brake assemblies are intact. Hoses intact. No fluid. No obvious wheel or tire issues. The bike looks normal. The parking brake, which is cable operated seems to work. It's a mystery for me.
Funny because I joined the forum yesterday because I was thinking of trading my Suzuki cruiser in on a new Swing like my wifes. Now the next day, I have this.

Where does it appear the fluid has exited from? With empty reservoirs it has to have left at some physical point.

That will help diagnose the problem.

What's going through my mind is faulty seal, master cylinder perhaps!!!! Pure guessing.

Sounds to me, like space aliens must have taken your brake fluid!!!! Dam Space Aliens!!!

All kidding aside, I'm very glad your OK. That's a very scary thing to have happen.

This is a very rare thing to have happen. I've been on this forum for a while now and this is very strange occurrence.

Please let us know what you find out.

Sorry. I did not word that correctly, no brake fluid leaking.
Everything looked normal.

I'm OK. My wife was driving it. Luckily she did not panic.

I'm very happy to hear she is OK.

I think it could be the delay timing valve.
I don't know the Honda CBS exactly but normaly there must be a valve that activate die front brake if you use th left brake handle and this should be a little bit later than the rear brake.
But i think in this case the right brake handle should not be affacted...

Hi, one question; is it the ABS model?

Yes. ABS.

Okay, I can make a tentative deduction based on what I've read so far; I suspect the ABS mechanism caused (a) the vibration, which is normal when ABS engages, (b) the subsequent lack of braking power because it couldn't make up it's mind what to do. I suspect that your wheel rings could be dirty, or your brake fluid needs changing. Your ABS sensors need inspection also. Did the ABS light on the dash flash?

Pee Ess, did you check your fuses and relays?

What ever you find out about this... share... this is the first major malfunction I have read about in the 4 years I have been involved with the Silverwing. It is important that we all learn from your wifes experience.

"Hi Icseds"
Dang, scary situation; even at 20 mph. Still,,, if everything is intact, it just doesn't make sense with just those symptoms (ie, how did the one actually affect the other / and, at the moment, other unanswered questions). Yes, It will be very interesting to see what your chosen mechanic comes up with. Good to hear the wife is okay tho'. Good Luck; this is really an odd one.

After work I talked to my wife a little more. Some other strange happenings also. Half way to work, after stopping at a light, she said the throttle response was poor. She cranked the throttle to max to try and get 45 mph out of it. When she released, she said more than engine braking was at work. It tried to stop....quickly. Shortly after that it began to shake. Thinking she had a tire going down, she pulled into a gas station. After checking the tires, the brake levers failed. So I guess it was not as dangerous as I had thought (she was a little upset this morning, so I didn't go for all the details at that time).
No ABS or other warning lights. This should be interesting to hear about as it seems as though the brakes were stuck on leading to the throttle and braking issue. Yet the dead brake levers indicate there may be no fluid. If the fluid was leaking, the brakes should not have been "engaged". And then the wobble, which may be something different. Lot's going on here, some seem related, some don't make sense.
This is the first safety related failure I have had after 25 years of motorcycling and 7 different bikes. We had a 2007 Silverwing for about a year and it was flawless. The 2009 that failed today still has a few weeks of warranty left (if it applies to this situation), so it is at my Honda dealer. Too bad there are two dozen other bikes there now also as the weather in NC, US is finally coming up into the 60's. Many are blowing the dust off and bringing the bikes in for a spring service. Not sure when then will look at ours. I will come back here and report the findings. Thanks for the opinions. It is indeed a little bizarre.

I'll now change my diagnosis to that of DennisB:
Alien intervention.

I concur.

Well, keep us informed (inquiring minds want to know) and all that. Glad for your warranty, this is weird.


Pendragon: '06 Silverwing abs, '97 Valkyrie tourer, '06 ST1300A, Retired.

Update.....Went to the dealer at lunch and it is repaired but being held hostage until they contact Honda and see if warranty can be applied.

The front brake was dragging. A lot. The brake fluid boiled which led to dead levers. He changed the pads and flushed the brake lines. No ABS errors in the computer. He test drove it a few miles, no problem. However, they do not know why the front brake engaged. They were thinking maybe debris. I would think debris would impair the braking, not force the application of the brake. It'll be a couple hundred dollars I suppose if they claim "debris". Not easy to argue any of it either as this is very rare and may well have been caused by something other than the scoot's braking system. But I think I will ride it a couple weeks, and keep the distances somewhat short.

Thanks for the up-date. Very strange indeed.

Well, I have ridden on Goldwing drill teams, and seen brake fail under this application, but never on the street. If something was pressing Both brake levers down slightly, I could grant some credibility to their diagnosis. Why would a front brake problem cause rear brake failure? Enquiring minds want to know :-) I would be delighted to know what Honda's warranty dept. comes up with; debris?
Pendragon

The front brake caliper has three pistons...the two outer pistons operating from the front brake........the middle piston is operated by the back brake and so when the caliper gets too hot it boils the fluid from both brakes.

Basic question: If the fluid "boils", does it go some place like "away"? Early on in thread statement of no evidence of leak. If it doesn't go anywhere, would the viscosity change so much that it leak around seals internally? I know that when any liquid boils some liquid changes to gas and that would cause loss of hydraulics. As shown in the table below, boiling point is hot. I see how seals could fail. But I would expect some evidence of seal failure either internally or externally.

Boiling points for common braking fluids
Dry boiling point Wet boiling point
DOT 3 205 °C (401 °F) 140 °C (284 °F)
DOT 4 230 °C (446 °F) 155 °C (311 °F)
DOT 5 260 °C (500 °F) 180 °C (356 °F)
DOT 5.1 270 °C (518 °F) 190 °C (374 °F)

Wet boiling point defined as 3.7% water by volume.

Viscosity
For reliable, consistent brake system operation, brake fluid must maintain a constant viscosity under a wide range of temperatures, including extreme cold. This is especially important in systems with an anti-lock braking system (ABS), traction control, and stability control (ESP).

The basic answer is that the vapour doesn't "go" anywhere, as the brake system is sealed. The explanation to brake loss from boiled fluid is that the hydraulic fluid in vapour form is compressible, in liquid form it is not.
Squeeze the brake lever and the vapour is just compressed into a smaller volume, causing the lever to go right to the handlebar with no resistance.

Does the vapor remain or does it condense back to fluid as it cools? I know about the non compressablity of the liquid. And I know if you get "air" in a brake line, you would have to bleed the system. I just never encountered a boiling system before. Never heard of it for that matter. Is this a common occurrance with two wheelers? I guess if a 4 wheel system every boiled, the same problem would be present. This is a learning experience for me. Thanks for the explaining.

The boiling of brake fluid is more common during racing, and during long downhills on the highways where the brakes are applied steadily. That's why it's recommended to shift your car to a lower gear and use engine braking.
It's also another reason to never use your left foot for braking in a car. Even slightly riding the brake pedal builds up a tremendous amount of heat that could boil the fluid.
Yes, when the vapour cools it condenses back to a liquid.

Bigbird replied while my slow hand typed, so some redundancy here...

Boiling brakes is more typical of squeezing the brakes all the way down the Rocky Mountains. More typical in auto racing than anything else, but still rare. I have never lost pedal pressure in all my years of driving cars or bikes. Including plenty of mountain twisty work which heats up the brakes.
The condition that happened with our Silverwing is something along the lines of squeezing the front brake lever tight and rolling the throttle full blast and riding for miles. Overheating fluid for the most part is not even a concern with modern brakes. The lines on the Silverwing were flushed because of air and water that may have accumulated during the boiling action. I'm no fluid engineer though.
I am at a loss as to how the brakes engaged. The rest of the theory as to what happened afterward is sound. It's the cause of the engagement that has me shaking my head.

Overheating brakes aren't uncommon on some motorcycles. The older Goldwings are suseptible to that problem to the point where the brakes lock up. Usually this is caused by the caliper being 'frozen' i.e. it can't move from side to side to even the pressure on both pads. Since there are pistons only on one side of the caliper the pistons must push the caliper away from the disk a bit to pull the inboard pads against the back of the rotor. If the caliper mounting bolts and sleeve get corroded and stuck this can't happen. This can cause the inboard pads to remain held against the disk which generates a lot of heat in the caliper and can cause brake lock up. I've repaired to older GWs in my old shop with exactly that problem. The Silverwing's calipers are mounted much the same way so it might be worth asking the dealer if the caliper is free to move.