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 Really appreciate my Swing

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bigbird
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PostSubject: Really appreciate my Swing   Tue 08 Feb 2011, 20:01

Today I went to 3 motorcycle dealerships looking at riding apparel. I sat on 5 different bikes that I thought would appeal to me. They were:
2011 Victory Cross Country
2010 Suzuki Burgman Exec
2010 Suzuki V-Strom 650
2010 Yamaha FJ1300
2011 Yamaha Stryker

My observations:

The Victory felt like a bunch of cheap parts were bolted together with no thought for continuity of design or flow. It felt and looked cheap. Leaving the rear cylinder out of the cooling airstream on an air cooled bike is just stupid. Why everyone copies HD is beyond me. Just stupid.

The Burgman was nowhere near as big as I thought it was made out to be. My Swing felt bigger. At first I thought I was on a 400. The mirrors were too low and small and it didn't feel right. The seat was hard as a hockey puck.

The V-Strom felt too compact. There was a huge hole between the fairing and the fork tree. I could see right down to the ground through it. It did nothing for me.

The FJ1300 was too low and heavy. I was all scrunched up sitting on it. Again, no room to move around on the seat.

The Stryker. Yes, that's the one I'd want. Perfect fit, nice low seat, controls perfectly placed, easy to stretch out on and get comfortable, and dynamite looks.
I would never have thought that the Stryker would be my "wanna' have" bike after the Swing.

BTW, I was at my Powerhouse store yesterday. I asked when they're getting the new bikes in, specifically the new little 250 and the Euro naked CB1000R. Answer: We didn't order any 1000R's and the 250 will be along when it gets here. This is a Powerhouse dealer without a full line up? Sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:13

Hey Terry,

At the moment the only bike that gets my interest up is the Honda NT700V. I don't have any plans to buy one anytime soon but I do like the way it feels when I sit on it. I did just read on the www.nt-owners.org site that someone road one and thinks his Silver Wing has just as much performance. Althought the magazine articles say the NT700 can do 115mph.

I'm surprised the Burgman 650 didn't feel any larger than the silver Wing. I sat on one and it does seem just a tad larger, but not much at all really. But it seems my knees are much closer to the dash than on the SWing. I have concerns about some of the things that can go wrong with it though. It is very much few and far between but if the fancy CVT goes out I have read they cost about $3,000 to fix.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Wed 09 Feb 2011, 08:20

JeffR wrote:

At the moment the only bike that gets my interest up is the Honda NT700V. I don't have any plans to buy one anytime soon but I do like the way it feels when I sit on it. I did just read on the www.nt-owners.org site that someone road one and thinks his Silver Wing has just as much performance. Althought the magazine articles say the NT700 can do 115mph.

Unfortunately, never has and never will be offered in Canada. Honda Canada is still trying to flog the unsold 2009 Varadero's up here.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Thu 10 Feb 2011, 03:02

I did just read on the www.nt-owners.org site that someone road one and thinks his Silver Wing has just as much performance. Althought the magazine articles say the NT700 can do 115mph.

115mph doesn't put the Silverwing down by much. My 2004 SW reached 105mph as measured by GPS on level ground. I don't think it was quite topped out but I ran out nerve. Not because the SW was acting odd at speed because it was just as smooth as it was at 60 but because I was running out of road I'd scouted for official picturetakers and radar readers. The claim of 115mph might not even be any faster if it was made based on the speedometer because that 105 GPS mph occurred when the speedo was reading a bit over 110.
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pja
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Thu 10 Feb 2011, 07:09

JeffR wrote:
... At the moment the only bike that gets my interest up is the Honda NT700V...

Jeff and others,

A chap I rode with on several "epics" had an NT700V.



The above picture is out bikes on the Alpine Way heading through the Snowy Mountains, NSW on our way to Victoria.

I have ridden with that bike over thousands of kilometres and I think they are a very good bike, like a mini ST1300 but without the handling problems. The NT goes very well and handles much better than its looks would make you think. Its probably similar to the SilverWing although my friend took many more risks than I was prepared to take. His bike had the standard pannier covers so the luggage space was not as good as the 'Wing. All-round but they are very similar. I think its a nice bike.

Regards,
Peter
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 11:47

Yesterday I had more time to kill so I went into a Kawasaki dealership. I sat on lots of bikes, among them the new Vaquero 1700, Vulcan Nomad 1700, Concours 14, Ninja 1000, and Versys 650.

My conclusion remains the same. For someone in my age category, I don't think there's anything better than the Silverwing 600. All the above mentioned bikes were uncomfortable to lift a leg over to mount. I'm so used to our step-through seating arrangement I really don't think I could go back to a true motorcycle without a lot of aggravation and discomfort. The big Vaquero was the least uncomfortable of them all. It had a very low seat, forward controls, a nice seat-to-handlebars relationship, but a huge dash area. It did feel that it would be nice to ride. The Ninja had the huge gas tank high up that squeezed against all kinds of internal organs. The Concours 14 had a bit better tank, but its bars were too low and forward for me. It really is a sport tourer, with the emphasis on sport. The Versys was nice and light, smaller, but again it was hard to lift a leg over.

So, I'm still more than excited to get back on my Swing in 2-3 weeks.
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Jinglebob
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 12:19

I have to agree. Was out in the twisties yesterday and the SWing was an absolute blast. The highway drone home was executed without issue...the bike can run down the road as fast as I care to go. When the wind came up in the afternoon, I found that raising the upper part of the Airflow really smoothed things out. I had a great day out on the SWing and do not regret swapping my cruiser for it.

Whenever I go visiting my buddy at the local Suzuki/Kawasaki/Aprilia shop, I try out the different machines there. I've done the same thing at the local Yamaha shop. I like the ergos on the Burgman 650...for me, it's a bit more stretched out and there's more room for my knees...but as stated above, I have many concerns about the reliability of the B650's transmission and the cost to repair it. If they'd make a B650 with a good CVT transmission, I might go for it. None of the other Suzukis or Kawasakis do much for me...the Versys might be OK, except it's pretty tall and the seat slopes forward into the tank, creating mayhem for the "boys". I've always been a fan of the V-Star 1100, but it's no longer made. I also like the Stryker and the entry level sport bike, the FZ6R.

That said, the SWing was a great choice. On the way back from the ride yesterday, I rode to church for the Sat PM service and a bunch of my riding buddies came out and were checking it out. One guy just got rid of his Superglide (not sure why...$, perhaps?) and was seriously interested in the SWing. When I described its performance and handling, they can't quite wrap their heads around it, but no one was negative...

We done good wid our bikes...
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eddy
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 12:45

Speaking of mc..
The best i sit on it are the NT700 and...the old Silverwing 650.

Thinking...

On the scooter, it s a comfort not to need shifting.
On the other hand... on low speeds you losing control with the rearwheel.
And... the scooter is useless on dirtroads.

But until now i do not dump my SW.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 13:02

I have new NT---bought because I could and time for new bike.

Maybe easier to work on than SilverWing. About same weight/same gas mileage, near same performance---NT is better at high speed stuff.

Also for me, reg bike allows my stroke affected left arm and leg work as they should....with plenty of thought.

NT is more of a pain at real slow speed stuff.

BEST FEATURE: if doesn't beat you to death with buffeting on the highway. Big gas tank!


Will ride my NT a year and hope there will be new developments in Maxi Scooter when it becomes time to buy again.

My suggestion keep SilverWing until it is shot----a year or two old they don't bring much on trade in. I expect same on NT...they couldn't sell them new(lots of left overs) so they probably will not bring much used,, even though they are probably one of Hondas best (made in Spain)

John Grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 15:39

Hey John,

I'm glad things are ok with you. The NT is the only bike that I'm interested in at all, but it's not that I'm looking though. I really like the feel of it and I don't want a bike engined bike either. Is it smoother at interstate speed? Say 70-75 mph. I can't see buying anything different unless they come out with the new hi-tech scooters, but if the SWing quits running for some reason I could see myself on an NT.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Sun 13 Mar 2011, 16:03

To answer JeffR-----it is smoother at high speeds----higher final drive ratio.

Engine feels less busy------magazines complain of lack of performance.....they most likely didn't ride it a lot.......we really cannot go fast in this country and not have to pay for it----85mph fine.......but the NT has way of speed creeping up, real task to keep at 55-65 where it is beautiful---lacks a little top gear flexability.


Does everything my last new BMW R80RT did only better----even junk in bags stays dry.....and probably will break much less often.

My criteria for bike/scooter includes centerstand, which it has. The big gas tank a plus over scooter and of course a reg motorcycle keeps your skill sets sharper. Givi rack took a little longer than on other bikes to get on, gas tank metal so mag tank bags work-----BIG PLUS Windshield actually works and is adjustable without tools... no need to change ( and this is unusual for me in my search for calm air----hands take a beating in rain but I have deflectors coming-----side opening saddle bags joke to me (on all bikes as your stuff falls out as you open. With NT I found some liners for my tools, tire repair stuff, rubber boots, spare gloves.rain gear----other wise I do not use bags except maybe to stuff a sweater I take off in. Scooter with big under seat storage better--HELIX the best with trunk.

A bit pricey, probably low re-sale/trade----Fun factor? Dry Feet? Scooter wins.

John Grinsel
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pja
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 02:10

john grinsel wrote:
I have new NT---bought because I could and time for new bike.

Maybe easier to work on than SilverWing. About same weight/same gas mileage, near same performance---NT is better at high speed stuff...

John,

As I have already said above, I have done many thousands of kilometres touring with a friend who rode a Honda Deauville (or NT-700V to you). From close observation of that bike I would agree with all your views. The NT-700V is a much underrated bike. Within my local Ulysses Branch it received almost as much derisionary comment as my SilverWing. All this negative commentary from folks who had never ridden either bike. IMHO, if you tour sans pillion then these two bikes are much better bikes than BMW R1200's and the ilk.

Two weeks ago six of us from our Ulysses Branch did a 500 km round trip in a day to visit the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club's rally (click here to see the pictures if you are interested). The others rode a combination of BMW tourers, a Honda GoldWing and a Yamaha FJ1300 tourer. Throughout the whole day the SWing had no problems keeping up with them and on several occasions actually lead the group. Despite the scoot's clear ability to match these much larger machines there were several members of the group who's egos made it impossible for them to ride behind a "SCOOTER"! So they would fly past only to settle back into the same pace we were going while I lead. Very odd. Evil or Very Mad

On the way home we had an incident at a McDonalds store; while trying to manoeuvre into the car park the line of bikes were baulked by a car. No. 1 bike propped to a stop. No. 2 bike (the Yamaha) had to try to avoid No.1 and in doing so fell over. The bike was travelling at less than walking pace but has still managed to incur several thousand dollars worth of damage.

It is my belief that a scooter rider would have been able to get both feet to the ground in the same situation and most probably never looked like dropping his bike. This incident just reinforced the reason why I sold my previous Honda Hornet (CB919 to those of you in the USA) and bought the SWing.

I am not necessarily a confirmed SilverWing rider (Honda has ceased importing them to Australia) but I am a convinced scooter rider. As an aside; Earlier this week, I sat on a new Gilera Fuoco 500 like this:


Now there's a nice bike!

Regards,
Peter
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 05:47

pja wrote:


Now there's a nice bike!

Regards,
Peter

Nooooooooo, not nice. Seriously ugly.

A lot of UK riders have had problems and are starting toreturn back to two wheels due to the problems. Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 06:11

Nicknamed Fugly over here.

I had a test ride on one when they first came out - no feet-forward (although someone in the States is making bolt-on Highway Pegs for them) and it feels awfully bulky and heavy at the front.

I know more but won't bother you with it. Wink

In fairness, it does have some very good features.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 06:50

Waspie wrote:
Nooooooooo, not nice. Seriously ugly.

A lot of UK riders have had problems and are starting to return back to two wheels due to the problems. Evil or Very Mad

Two points in reply:


  1. Surely beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
  2. I Googles both "Gilera Fuoco problems" and Piaggio MP3 problems" and got no significant replies. One site returned was Bikez.com and it showed a user survey of the Fuoco and it was really quite good. I tried to do a comparison with out belovered SilverWing but no users had bothered to complete the survey. So I did a comparison with the Yamaha T-Max and both scooters were very similar - much more so that I would have thought.


The Internet is a great place for starting and spreading "urban myths" and I think "three wheeler problems" is one such myth. My friend in Canberra who sells and services Fuocos (and all other Piaggio brands and some others as well) raves about the three wheelers. They are much safer than two wheelers especially in the wet. I thought that would be very appropriate to your homeland. Smile

Regards,
Peter
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 06:57

pja wrote:
Waspie wrote:
Nooooooooo, not nice. Seriously ugly.

A lot of UK riders have had problems and are starting to return back to two wheels due to the problems. Evil or Very Mad

Two points in reply:


  1. Surely beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
  2. I Googles both "Gilera Fuoco problems" and Piaggio MP3 problems" and got no significant replies. One site returned was Bikez.com and it showed a user survey of the Fuoco and it was really quite good. I tried to do a comparison with out belovered SilverWing but no users had bothered to complete the survey. So I did a comparison with the Yamaha T-Max and both scooters were very similar - much more so that I would have thought.


The Internet is a great place for starting and spreading "urban myths" and I think "three wheeler problems" is one such myth. My friend in Canberra who sells and services Fuocos (and all other Piaggio brands and some others as well) raves about the three wheelers. They are much safer than two wheelers especially in the wet. I thought that would be very appropriate to your homeland. Smile

Regards,
Peter

OK,
In reply to 1/ No argument from me. I agree. But to me it is one seriously ugly machine.
In reply to two. I don't go for cyber myth. I listen to my friends who have owned them and only go on their comments.

They do have some good qualities. The ability to clear obstructions such as kerbs etc. Their abilities in the wet over two wheels. Can't comment. Never have nor will ever ride one. But riding in the wet is down to experience and like you say, it rains a lot in Blighty. So therefore I am used to it and the wet doesn't form any sort of barrier, physical or mental.

I'll sick to my Wing. After all thats what this forum is about.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 07:02

I have a very good friend in London who owns a 250 Vespa, GP800 and a Fuoco, and has owned X9 125, 250, 500.

He does 90% of his own maintenance and has worked with a couple of Piaggio dealers in sorting out problems on newer Piaggios.

Look on ModernVespa and there you'll see all the delights and disappointments with the MP3 range.
On there he is Jimc and is held in very high regard.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 07:07

Bottom line=Italian stuff isn't as reliable as Japanese period.

Honda parts service world over is pretty good---try Italian, not so hot.

As to bikes running into each other---skill and practice---both feet out on bike and you have lost control of rear brake! Scooter feet can come out, but one foot is enough. Stay away from other people. Don't like group riding as it is danger period....i speak from over 1.5 million miles of doing this.

John Grinsel What I think is of these 3 wheels things----skillfully ridden as I saw in Germany on my way to work, GREAT, in sand/snow, etc. Bought by people with no skill as sub for skill, accident looking for place to happen.

I suspect maxi scooter development is in slump right now-----be nice if something came along with long life drive train (50,000) miles wheel easy to take off, no valve adj, big gas tank, etc----even wheels that come apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 07:11

john grinsel wrote:
I suspect maxi scooter development is in slump right now-----be nice if something came along with long life drive train (50,000) miles wheel easy to take off, no valve adj, big gas tank, etc----even wheels that come apart.

John I agree with regards Italian manufacture, they do not have the best reputation on the planet for electrics.

However! Sadly, as far a Japanese development is concerned I can't really see it as a priority for the near or distant future.
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:14

Bought by people with no skill as sub for skill, accident looking for place to happen.

Even more so since the advent of the MP3 LT which has a wider front track, allowing those with an ordinary car licence to ride one with no rider/bike training at all (in the UK, at least).
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 16:18

pja wrote:
Surely beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

+1 on that pja
I think they look kind of neat.Over the front wheels looks like a mouth trying to gobble up the road. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Really appreciate my Swing   Mon 14 Mar 2011, 23:20

model28a wrote:
...I think they look kind of neat.

Roger,

I have had two reasonably long test rides on the Piaggio MP3 400. The only negative I could find was the strange feel through the handle bars - you can actually feel the two wheels moving separately, but I adjusted to this within five minutes. The handling is very good, it just feels planted on the road. When I had my second ride I was used to the "feel" and just enjoyed the performance and handling. The Fuoco has another 100 cc and more torque so the performance would be better again.

I spoke to an owner a while back who regularly rides between Canberra and Melbourne (about 660 km and 8 hours) and she just loved it as a tourer.

I'm looking at my options because Honda Australia has ceased importing both the 600 cc and 400 cc SilverWing models. The largest Honda scooter we can now buy is the SH300i Evil or Very Mad

Regards,
Peter
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