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 Not Wearing a Helmet

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robert
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PostSubject: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 00:51

An Off-Duty Cop had a pretty bad accident while riding his own personal M/C the other day on the I-10 Freeway here in Phoenix. He may have prevented some of his serious injuries, if he would have been wearing a helmet. But you are not required to wear a helmet here in Arizona. You will get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt while driving your vehicle. But you are more than welcome to splatter your brains on the highway here, by not wearing a helmet. Ride Safe...Robert.
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 08:26

A shame, I'm all for personal freedoms, but to hear of a public servant and a defender of freedom being injured is bad news. Balancing out freedom of choice over common sense isn't that hard to do really.

We've had to wear a skidlid here in the UK for decades, it was actually the impostion of such a law that the Motorcycle Action Group here in the UK was founded upon! Their bye line being 'Let the Rider Decided!'. For quite a while I supported both Mag and the above attitude until one day I actually did have cause and the space to legally ride without a helmet...... From that one experience I changed my view entirely; anybody who wants to ride without a lid on, esp here in the UK needs both their head looking at and their keys confiscating on the basis they are a danger to other road users (and themselves)!

I've got friends who have travelled alot further a field than I have who have told me its a great feeling to ride in the sun, with no lid on etc. etc. As part of my rehab I volunteered years ago to work for a local Hospital radio service, where it was my (mis)forturne to meet not one but three or four guys - all with severe head injuries sustained not always through motorcycling but enough to make me realise just how vunerable my noggin is!

Okay so my choosen lid is a flip front, which most would argue is little better than an open face lid, well as far as I'm concerned at least its better than no lid at all!!

Robert, you don't mention whether the guy hurt was a bike cop or not? Some times the confidence we have in our skills as riders can out weigh our actually abilities! Years ago when Foggarty was riding for Ducati, regularly, we would get at least 3 or 4 phone calls on the Monday morning after the Donnington Park MotorGP from insurance companies, dealers or owners about crash damaged bikes - riders who thought they could ride like Foggy on the road...... until they came to the first bend Evil or Very Mad

Good luck to the cop, I bet his life will never be the same again, I hope he enjoyed the ride!
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pancho
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 16:55

I have worn a helmet from the begining (1964 first bike) and a helmet has saved my life.
I am also a FireFighter/EMT and seen where helmets have made the difference.I will always wear one.
Don,t even bring up the "Loud Pipes Save Lives" B.S.
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skiwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 17:23

I have to confess, I wear a helmet only about half the time. I am a safety oriented person in every aspect of my life except for this.

I always wear my helmet when I ski, I always wear my seatbelt in the car, and as a pilot I read every single item on my checklist outloud, among many other safety steps.

I have no explination for my behavior other than I really like to ride without a helmet.

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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 18:22

I have to wear one so it's natural.
In any case, mostly the weather dictates wearing some kind of hat so it might as well be a helmet on the bike.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 22:19

I had to wear a helmet from the first time I had a Cushman in 1957. My father was assigned to Edwards, AFB and the USAF mandated helmets on base. Personally I'm against seatbelt and helmet laws, if one wants to take a chance go ahead, it's your life. That being said, I think anyone who rides without a helmet is being foolish, ditto riding in a car without seat belts.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sun 30 Jan 2011, 03:35

This is a very ticklish question of personal freedom vs public costs. As long as bashing your head in doesn't cost me, I don't care. In Texas you have to show a certain amount of insurance to ride without a helmet. I always ride with one so I've never explored this information. A decending radius curve with a stop sign at the bottom and sand on the street taught this old dog a new trick. The gash in my helmet where it met the curb also got my attention. Shoot, I might have busted that curb if I hadn't been wearing my helmet. I really like those riders who use their helmets to protect their sissy bars. Must think their sissy bars are more valuable than their heads and they are probably right Laughing Laughing Laughing
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roadrunner
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sun 30 Jan 2011, 09:13

Way back in the day, Bell Helmets used to advertise, "If you have a ten dollar head, wear a ten dollar helmet." What does that say about those riders who never wear one??

Here in Florida, we used to have a mandatory helmet law, but that was voted down some years ago and now, like Texas, riders over 21 can choose to go lid-less if they have the proper insurance. Presumably, that prevents the rest of us from paying when someone splatters his or her hair/teeth/eyes on the pavement.

Personally, having broken the chin bar off of a Bell Moto-Star riding (OK, crashing) off-road, I wear a helmet, even on hot days. I've been doing it so long, and wearing seat belts in a car, I feel nekkid when I don't.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sun 30 Jan 2011, 09:51

I agree with the FL law.
Your choice as long as its your responsibility.
If you have insurance that will still cover you if you ride without a helmet, then it should be your choice.

The public should not be required to foot the bill for a lifetime of special services to those injured because they were riding without a brain bucket.
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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sun 30 Jan 2011, 18:54

I live in texas also and i choose to wear a helmet even though i have a choice not to. The cop that was hurt on his bike exercised his right not to wear a helmet. I dont think his decision was a wise one but he did have a choice. I sure hope he comes out of it and recovers....sometimes around my neighborhood at slow speeds i do ride without a helmet...25-35 mph....but on the highway my brainbucket goes on and hopefully ill never need it.
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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Mon 31 Jan 2011, 00:09

For what my two cents are worth... when I had the accident last April... I was going less than 25 MPH ... when the back of my head bounced off the pavement, that was the hardest lick I have ever had. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would have died without my helmet on. No one will ever have to remind me that I need a helmet. I suppose you could say I still have a choice here in Arkansas, but I will CHOOSE being prepared.
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CathyN
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Mon 31 Jan 2011, 00:43

Gary, I couldn't agree with you more. We have a choice in Illinois also, I choose to wear a helmet at all times. Better safe than sorry. You won't see me in a tank top, shorts and flip flops riding or being a passenger. Just my choice. Working in a hospital it took me a long time before I felt comfortable riding as a passenger and then going solo. Bob has been riding for 16 years. Always, wears a helmet and the protective gear. Nothing wrong with that.

Cathy
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Mon 31 Jan 2011, 07:41

Cathy,

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the comment about hospital! I worked in a military hospital for a coule of years and all the ER staff were very anti-biking, mainly because they saw the young kids of 16-17 arriving in the back of ambulances all beat up because they didn't wear the gear. Reminds me a little of Sallys nephew, who despite being provided with a very expensive leather jacket etc. for use while riding his bike, decided not to as it didn't 'look cool, down the chip shop'!! A slight crash the following week changed his mind.. He was one of the lucky ones who lived to learn. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Skippy on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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GWPSI
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Mon 31 Jan 2011, 07:50

Ladies and gentlemen, skip the helmet if you must, but have your organ donor card completed before you ride.

I serve on the organ procurement board for much of Ohio. The day after I bought my Swing I told a transplant surgeon friend what I had done. He looked me straight in the eye and said, "Never ride without the best helmet you can buy. I'm been on the other side of the table too many times." If not for you, then for your family. They are often called "donorcycles" for a reason.
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lucian
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 01:36

Here is how I scare myself into wearing a helmet. It works most of the time.

I love my almost bald head in the wind. Here in Texas, the insane heat, sometime I don't have a choice.

I am all for the God given right to choose. For me, personally, the helmet dilemma, comes down to only two possible choices: open casket or closed casket.

A very long time ago, a friend of mine said this to me : "rule of thumb" a human body can not withstand a 50 miles full impact. You die of "shaking baby syndrome". Internal injuries will be so great your organs will liquify.

That was scary enough for me on it's own, but than I discovered " driving by numbers". This is why I hate math.

At 30mph, the chance of surviving a car crash falls to 27 per cent.
At speeds above 38 mph, you have less than a 1 per cent chance of surviving.

Fastest human body 27.79 mph.
The strongest bone in the human body the femur can withstand up to 300 pounds of pressure before breaking.
A 150 lb body going 50 mph doesn't sound like much until you add the kinetic energy ... ouch

Seeee, math is scary man !

Maybe when I get a little older and I hit that "I don't give a &^it" age, I'll grow my hair long and drive in to the sunset.

For now I choose the open casket option.

Smile
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AAAA
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 08:35

I rarely wore a seat-belt until they started enforcing seat belt laws. Now it just feels creepy not to have it across my chest, i feel less safe somehow.
Yes it is a choice to wear a helmet or not. They repealed the helmet law here a year or so ago, and i have yet to see a rider without one. Ive been in quite a few wrecks since i got my 1st bike at 14, only 2 on the street, but mostly on the track. I went to the store once without a helmet on one night recently, and i can see the store from my house and it flat creeped me out, i didnt even encounter a singe car on the road either! I feel safer, which is a illusion on a bike. I still think cell phones are the most dangerous thing on the road.

+1 on the loud pipes save lives B.S. The only thing loud pipes accomplish is showing the world that your a wanna-be badass.
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tubeck
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:36

I don't think anyone can disput the fact that wearing a helmet is a good idea. Of course I think the majority of the population think getting on 2 wheels is not a smart idea either and we all ignore that.
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bob wells
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:43

I pretty much agree. Just riding around the block after servicing my bikes in the subdivision, without a helmet feels creepy.

Bob
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 14:24

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 14:30

I prefer loud colors to loud pipes (I only wear safety-yellow jackets now). I happen to think that it works better than the pipes, plus i look great in yellow. ;-)

I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck behind one of these loud pipe guys on a long twisty mountain road where there is no second lane to pass him. The funny thing is these guys usually wear ear plugs so they don't have to hear their own pipes but those of us stuck in his doppler effect aren't so equipped.

Jesse in Atlanta
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 15:54

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:29

Hopefully I'll get them by the end of next week, but I will be out of town on the weekend so may not install them until the following Sunday (unless i get ambitious on a weeknight).

If I remember to I will take some snapshots of the parts i receive.

Be Well,
Jesse
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:33

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 18:12

dspevack wrote:
I agree with the FL law.
Your choice as long as its your responsibility.
If you have insurance that will still cover you if you ride without a helmet, then it should be your choice.

The public should not be required to foot the bill for a lifetime of special services to those injured because they were riding without a brain bucket.

And where does the insurance companies get their money from to pay for all the necessary services?.... from everyones' premiums...so you are paying for it.

The only law we have in this country regarding bikers is the wearing of a helmet. For me it is ATGATT or drive a car.

Cheers,
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 22:06

FL law only requires $10,000 coverage, I do not think you can repair to much in a hospital with 10 grand.
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texasswing
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 22:52

Texas law has gone back and forth over the years. When had my first bike in the 80's - mandatory -then not- now over some age (at 65 I know not what age because I definitely qualify) with insurance. I wear - period. In addition my wife and I just got neon yellow Olympia jackets with armor. We have not had them but a month or so but I feel naked without it if I don't wear it already.

I hate loud pipes and boom boom boxes.

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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 26 Aug 2011, 08:25



I hate loud pipes and boom boom boxes.

[/quote]

+1
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 26 Aug 2011, 10:05

I admit I used to wear a helmet and face shield was to keep the bugs off my face. Now with this Givi oversized shield it iliminates that problem.

I hate scrachy ice cream truck music. I hear it from miles away for hours every afternoon Give me the throaty sound (not loud) of a bike anyday
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 26 Aug 2011, 10:16

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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texasswing
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 26 Aug 2011, 12:11

Throaty is good Exclamation
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 11:30

The main point here is
It is not govt responsibility to protect us against ourselves.
We do not cause any addl damage to others by not wearing a helmet.
This is a choice made by the individual in a free society
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 12:04

I wouldn't like to be the one who has to scrape up the brains from the tarmac - it might cost me my sanity.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 12:21

tubeck wrote:
We do not cause any addl damage to others by not wearing a helmet.
This is a choice made by the individual in a free society

So you do not consider the mental damage done to other seeing your head splattered all over the highway an issue.

I work with a chap, ex m/c cop who quit riding and the police after attending one too many accidents involving helmetless riders. Imagine a young child who has to witness such a sight?

Accidents WILL happen - fact, but surely to wear anything/everything that would prevent damage to ourselves is common sense?

I agree that it should be down to the choice of the individual but to say it doesn't cause any damage to others is illogical. I have been scarred by many things I have witnessed to the point a career in medicine is out. Seen one too many mangled bodies thank you.

Choices - yes but it has to be the right choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 12:27

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 13:29

the minimum insurance requirement here of PIP (personal injury protection) insurance means everyone has insurance to cover injury costs to themselves. Minimal costs passed on to the taxpaying public. That is fla law anyway. Of course that only works if everone gets it like the law states.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 13:41

I have heard that the paramedics think all bikers should wear full protective suits. It keeps them from having to search for all the pieces in an accident

I ride not to be serious. or I wouldn't ride at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 13:45

I see a parallel between riding with no helmet and what I see in the jail each week. Bear with me for a second before making a judgement. I'm not calling a helmetless rider a criminal. Smile

Each week, I see wives, girl friends, parents, children waiting to get a chance to visit one of their loved ones who are locked up. In many ways, it is not only the guys staying there who are in jail...but the family as well. The family who did nothing wrong is often suffering more than the guy locked up inside.

We can debate all day about "my right" to wear a helmet or not — but do those arguing for that "right" ever ask the others who care for them, what they think? Honestly? What about the effect on their lives? As their once vibrant husband, father or son is now either a vegetable for the rest of their lives or dead? Even if dead, the future they had that was once secure, is now gone to medical bills.

What about their rights?

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 14:02

The whole debate is a complete waste of time and serves only to raise blood-pressure if indeed it does.
The pro-helmet brigade will trot out all the pro-helmet arguments and the right-to-do-as-I-please brigade will seek to justify their stance.
It's a subject that's been done to death and I, for one, will no longer read any threads on the subject - I will not change my views and do not want to raise my blood-pressure.

So there! Razz


Last edited by MikeO on Fri 02 Sep 2011, 15:34; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 15:27

Of course the costs are passed on to the "public" - The insurance buying public whose premiums go to fund all claims.

I'd actually be interested to know the statistics though as I would think that most helmetless riders would be killed in a collision so the health care costs may actually be quite low.

It's really more of a "right to die" issue than a "right to ride without a helmet" issue




tubeck wrote:
the minimum insurance requirement here of PIP (personal injury protection) insurance means everyone has insurance to cover injury costs to themselves. Minimal costs passed on to the taxpaying public. That is fla law anyway. Of course that only works if everone gets it like the law states.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 16:07

tubeck wrote:
the minimum insurance requirement here of PIP (personal injury protection) insurance means everyone has insurance to cover injury costs to themselves. Minimal costs passed on to the taxpaying public. That is fla law anyway. Of course that only works if everone gets it like the law states.
In Florida a helmet is not required if over 21 with a minimum of $10,000 in medical insurance.

Florida's No-Fault, or "PIP Law" does not apply to motorcycles. HOWEVER, the Financial Responsibility FR Law applies to ALL motor vehicles in Florida, including motorcycles. Thus the voluntary purchase of motor vehicle liability insurance by an owner, operator or owner/ operator is highly recommended.
Hear is a link to find out the M/C laws of the states.
http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/asp/amaccess/laws/result.asp?state=fl
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billc.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 17:01

Where do you get medical insurance. Is this a standard medical policy like Blue Cross? Do you have to specify motorcycle? thanks billc.
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AAAA
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 21:53

MikeO wrote:
The whole debate is a complete waste of time and serves only to raise blood-pressure if indeed it does.
The pro-helmet brigade will trot out all the pro-helmet arguments and the right-to-do-as-I-please brigade will seek to justify their stance.
It's a subject that's been done to death and I, for one, will no longer read any threads on the subject - I will not change my views and do not want to raise my blood-pressure.

So there! Razz


+1 im with you.

That being said, . . . . . . . . . .

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robert
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 23:08

Let's see here, while you're driving a car, you're basically protected inside a cage, you must wear a seat belt, but you can ride your two wheeler, where you don't have any protection, and you don't have to wear a helmet, I guess that makes sense. Ride Safe.
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AAAA
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Fri 02 Sep 2011, 23:50

Personally, i dont care if anyone wears a helmet except me.
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billc.
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 03 Sep 2011, 09:41

I also don't care whether anyone wears a helmet or not, except a lot of the helmetless express their "freedom" by also not having medical insurance (don't want that FORCED on them). Then when, not if, but when they have their "incident", they are cared for in the hospital and aftercare by my and your tax dollar....and they feel they are ENTITLED to that at no cost to them. Not saying helmets and armor are the automatic savior in all accidents, but I will better my odds with them rather than without and my insurance will keep me from losing everything I worked for all my life and assure me of funds for the best care. billc.
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Somerled
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 03 Sep 2011, 14:56

I think this article says it rather well. It was all over the news recently.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-04/us/new.york.motorcyclist.death_1_helmet-motorcyclist-state-police?_s=PM:US
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 03 Sep 2011, 19:10

Tagg wrote:
Personally, i dont care if anyone wears a helmet except me.
+1
In the post above I was only clarifying the Florida law.
I always wear mine and I believe it has saved me at lest some of my brains two different times.
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Johnnygone
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 07 Jul 2012, 01:16

In 1966 I was coming out of a friends drive way onto a street with a slight hill. The street had a barrel of sand on the corner to throw on the street in icy weather. Kids had thrown sand out of the barrel onto the street. I was doing maybe 3 or 4 miles an hour coming out of the driveway when I hit the sand at night. I went down in an instant and was pinned down as I slowly slid across the street. Slapped my hand hard and thinking everything was OK I got up. The complete front of the bubble shield I was wearing was gone and the very tip of my nose was bleeding. If I had not been wearing that helmet and shield I believe my nose, lips, and teeth might be gone.
While I don't wear hard bubble shields anymore I would suggest this. If your willing to jog head first into a wall not wearing a helmet, then by all means.... don't wear one.
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surlybiker58
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 07 Jul 2012, 07:46

After the left side of my face had a close encounter with the pavement at the
age of 16 , (low speed accident , concussion and a week in the
hospital) I always wear a Helmet .
Maryland has a Helmet Law and some of our neighboring states don't.

I not a big fan of the government telling us what to do .
Adults should be able to make a risk assessment and make their own
decisions.
I learned my lesson at a relatively early age
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som2002
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PostSubject: Re: Not Wearing a Helmet   Sat 07 Jul 2012, 12:08

No helmet for me, personal choice. Would be no seatbelt either if I had that choice not forced upon me. Plus, I've run with scissors on occasion Laughing
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