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 Darkside Tire Q & A

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Slick-Tenn
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PostSubject: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 25 Jan 2011, 11:48

With more than 3k on my 03 Silver Wing's Sumitomo HTRT4 radial tire Including a 2238 mi 16-day trip in October), I am able to answer some of the many questions I had before purchasing/installing my "darkside" tire:
1) Does it ride/drive differently? Yes! The ONE MAIN DIFFERENCE you will have to get used to is the FLEXIBLE SIDEWALL REAR TIRE. It is very smooth, grips wonderfully and handles well. HOWEVER, you have to be more "upright" about your riding due to the flexible sidewalls.
2) How does it handle in the rain? Excellent! It has a MUCH bigger footprint and disperses water well, thus maintaining an overall BIGGER contact patch.
3) How much air pressure should I run? If it's just you aboard, try 28 - 30. If touring with a load, 30-32. Any more than that and (in my opinion) the tire gets "squirrely".
4) The tire fits the existing rim OK? Well, yes and no. My mechanic got the tire onto the rim OK, but couldn't get it to seat. So, he put a tube inside, ran it up to about 50 pounds, deflated it, took the tube out and VOILA! the tire finally did seat on the Honda rim. HOWEVER - it seeped air about a pound a day. So, I put 40 lbs in it and ran a 16-mile interstate trip (and back) at 80+ mph, heating the tire up and letting centrifugal force do its thing. Tire seated wonderfully and holds air now.
5) Can you scrape the pegs on the mountain twisties? NO!! Remember, your tire tread is "squared off" at the edges. You risk running on the "crown" of the tread edge - a dangerous proposition in anyone's book - little or no grip or handling. [b]YOUR RIDING MUST BE MORE CONSERVATIVE AND MORE "UPRIGHT" TO RIDE SAFELY!
6) Main benefits: Wider contact patch (better braking), flexible sidewall (much smoother ride), tire longevity (40k+).
7) Main drawbacks: Harder to install, flexible sidewalls mean more conservative/upright riding.
If you have more questions, plz email me at: RMLSOTMHG@CHARTER.NET
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Foxbat
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Thu 27 Jan 2011, 22:25

What size and brand do you recommend?
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Slick-Tenn
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 12:17

Foxbat wrote:
What size and brand do you recommend?
140/70-14. I picked the Sumitomo for these reasons: 1) It is readily available from tireseasy.com; 2) it is the most technologically advanced radial tire on the planet. It qualifies for the new "LRR" (low rolling resistance) rating by the EPA and it will hold up to 52 psi (a much STRONGER tire than what was previously available). It really works great.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 12:54

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 13:04

Sorry BigBird... crossing freeway on foot is not safe... information supports that statement... drinking and driving is not safe... information supports that statement... having unsafe sex is not safe... information supports that statement... driving at speed of 100 mph on icy road is not safe... information supports that statement.....

"Putting an automobile tire on a scooter is NOT a safe thing to do."... information ?????? that statement
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 13:15

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 13:56

2000000miles/60 MPH/24 hours in a day/365.25 days in a year
= 3.802570537683474 years. If riding for only 8 hours a day that would take 3.802570537683474 X 3 = 11.40771161305042 years

I might consider someone an authority on the subject that rides for that much that actually had a failure...

John might not make the best witness in a hearing... Sad
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 15:31

bigbird wrote:
1) The first is your Swing owner's and service manual. They recommend scooter tires for a reason.

Based on your own reasoning you should not be running the J Costa variator, HyperPro, side stand bypass or Philips XTreme Power 55W bulbs ... Honda recommended only Honda parts for a reason

bigbird wrote:
2) The second is because John Grinsel, with his 2M miles of experience, says so.

You are confusing experience and facts.

Radial tires were not around before the 70s (and maybe late 60s).

John tested a bias-ply car tire ... not a radial tire.


Last edited by honda_silver on Fri 28 Jan 2011, 15:36; edited 2 times in total
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 15:34

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 15:45

Foxbat wrote:
What size and brand do you recommend?

Sumitomo 165/70-R13
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tankyuong
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 15:50

165-65-13 bridgestone works good too
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Fri 28 Jan 2011, 23:03

Darksiding is a subject that comes up on the Goldwing forums as well as scooter forums. I haven't heard of any disasters caused by using auto tires on a bike but I do believe it you like any kind of spirited riding they are inferior to bike tires. I have met a couple darksiders who seem utra conservative in the twisties. The reason they ride that way may not be due to their tires but for me half the fun of riding is a bit of peg scraping now and then. It's hard for me to believe that the only reason motorcycle tires are made is to sell a shorter lived tire and make more money for the manufacturers. In the 50s motorcycle and car tires weren't all that different. In fact Cushman scooters basically had 400X8 boat trailer tires on them from the manufacturer. In the past 60 years there has been a lot of engineering improvements in materials and design of both auto tires and bike tires, but the engineering and material choices are different for both types of tires. Just to take one point. Hydroplaning. Motorcycles and scooters are much less prone to hydroplane than autos and trucks. Mainly because they have a narrower contact point which results in a higher pressure footprint. Another point I'd argue is better braking with a car tire on the rear of a bike. Since by far most of the braking effort comes from the front wheel due to weight transfer it's really unlikely that a car tire will improve braking. Yes it does have a bit more contact area but that is countered by lower contact pressure with the road surface. Has anyone seen any qualitative data on the differences between using the different tires? Anecdotal evidence is pretty much unreliable. Even a proponent like Slick-Tenn is basically saying the tire doesn't handle as well or there wouldn't be a necessity of keeping the bike more 'upright' which means a lot slower on the twisties. I don't say that Darksiding is dangerous but I do believe that it derogates performance and therefore a lot of pleasure in riding a two wheel vehicle.
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robert
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 00:01

In Slick-Tenn's own words, the Mechanic had a hard time getting the tire to seat properly, well Duh? it's a car tire, not meant for two wheeled vehicles. There is a reason bike tires have grooves on their sides, for better grip on turns, especially on wet roads. I would rather spend a few extra dollars on the proper equipment and be as safe as possible. Ride Safe...Robert in Az.
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 06:56

exavid wrote:
...Has anyone seen any qualitative data on the differences between using the different tires? Anecdotal evidence is pretty much unreliable...

Oh c'mon man, if we don't allow voodoo science, what else have we got?

In answer to your question - I've not seen any qualitative data on the differences and all that is ever presented (even in the link Gary provided in a different thread), is the experience of people who have installed the tires.

Like you I don't think that the car tire is inherrantly unsafe, just not intended for the application. A butcher knife is like a scalpel and both will cut you open, but when it comes to precision cutting - use the scalpel.
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Slick-Tenn
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Mon 31 Jan 2011, 12:24

bigbird wrote:
Since this topic is in the safety section, I am compelled to comment.
Putting an automobile tire on a scooter is NOT a safe thing to do. You can have all the personal anecdotes on the merits of doing so you want, but the bottom line is this:

That car tire was NEVER designed to function safely as a scooter tire, and that scooter was NEVER designed to function safely using a car tire.

Be safe out there.

TRUE! But - can an automobile radial tire be ADAPTED to use on a scooter? By a resounding thousands-of-riders-test, YES! Has it proven safe? Once again, with NO reports of accidents being caused by usage, YES! Your implication that it is INHERENTLY UNSAFE is TOTALLY FALSE and based on a pre-conceived premise in your thinking - NOT BY TEST. Like my daddy always said, THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!
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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 07:44

There has never been a shortage of nay sayers when it comes to darkside subject which is why i kept installing scoot tires on my swing UNTIL i became sick of replacing them every two months.

I TOO...ordered my 165/70-13 sumitomo tire from tireseasy.com....arrived in 3 days flat. INSTALLATION....sure the DS is not gonna just melt into place when mounted.....it will need a little convincing....but IT WILL MOUNT AND SEAT to the bead.

I read reports of people installing a tube inside the rim to get the tire to bead up.....OK?...have someone bead seat that biotch up around the rim. (I watched a car tire shop beat seat mine) WA-LA...its over...like taking a pill. below is a video of the method im describing....

bead seater

Now, im dam glad i didnt listen to all those afraid to try DS, because its the best mod ive done to my bike...it rides like a cadillac now.

P.S. if you ride like the guy in the new forum profile pic on a daily basis you might want to stick to your diablo's....im just saying


Last edited by FlyingWing on Tue 01 Feb 2011, 11:10; edited 1 time in total
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 08:01

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 11:00

FlyingWing wrote:
P.S. if you ride like the guy in the new forum profile pic on a daily basis you might want to stick to your diablo's

I would not have any problem riding my Darkside tire on a daily basis on a twisty road at decent speed.

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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 11:09

Honda Silver....I would ride on my DS anyplace, but then again i dont take curves like im racing for the checkered flag either. I didnt ride that way when i had a scoot tire.
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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 12:16

FlyingWing Said:
"if you ride like the guy in the new forum "

Did I miss something... I thought we were the new forum... Shocked
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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 12:37

OPalboy....the phrase is the "new" profile pic for the forum....u know the one of the front page of this forum.
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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 15:15

A-ha... you have to forgive me for not catching the whole statement... you Texans know us Arkies are...
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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 16:11

No problem OPALSBOY...i know i probably type with a texas accent....lol.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 18:06

bigbird wrote:
Why have a Swing and drive it like a grandma?

Evil or Very Mad Why are you trying to judge someone for how they drive??

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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 18:08

x



Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:57; edited 1 time in total
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tankyuong
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 18:23

vomit
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 18:25

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:57; edited 1 time in total
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tankyuong
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 18:51

All it takes is one person to not say anything, who will that be hmmm.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 19:01

Hi Guys, and of course young ladies. Haven't had access the "interweb" in a while, so when I checked on my fav 2 wheeling site, I thought I stumbled upon a Rush Limbaugh/Keith Olberman point/counterpoint. "Well it's my ball and I'm going home".!!! You guys are a hoot, and we need that Beer Summit at DennisB's Lake front Cabin........Soon!!!
Here's a thought. Surely you've been a little loose with.....say $75 to $100 bucks....haven't you?? Maybe what you spent it on didn't work out, and maybe it was the best money you've ever spent. Well....... A Sumi @ Tirerack is $46+$15 for shipping, mounting at my Sumi dealer in Quincy Il was $15. If the Mrs.....or Mr......wouldn't mind a little of that tax refund going for "research", you could be the Jonas Saulk of the Silverwing Set.
If you are curious........what the heck.......give one a try. You might like it, if not, think how much fun it will be to post a picture of the grandkids playing on their new Sumi tire swing!! You cant lose!!.......Jeff.
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 19:59

Can't we all just get along ??? Laughing Twisted Evil I love you Crying or Very sad Smile Neutral Razz Rolling Eyes

Okay... I'm sorry... There's a damn blizzard goin' on an' I ain't got nuthin' else to do. cyclops
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FlyingWing
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 01 Feb 2011, 20:25

Allz i can say iz....you'd have a hard time keeping up on the highway with the silverwing drivin grandma....loosen up dude...im teasing :-)

DICKO...we are having a bit of chill in dallas too.... Laughing
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 08:16

This thread started as a question and answer session and went to the ds tire debate. Can the debaters now leave this thread alone and let the people who want to discuss darkside options, discuss darkside options and questions and answers.

I am interested in a darkside option for my Silverwing. To be honest, I would like to drive over to Discount Tire or any other tire store and pick one up and not have to pay to have one tire shipped to me. Any suggestions?

Walmart tire? All you other cheap DS tire users.... I want to know about it.

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roadrunner
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 09:02

Larry,

I personally don't darkside, but if that's your intention I would think you would want the tire with the most rounded shoulder profile you could find.

That said, I think our admin, Bill (Honda_Silver), has done the research and determined the Sumitomo to be the best. Your local Discount Tire may not carry it though.

Here's a link to Bill's research thread: http://www.silverwing600.com/t4166-silverwing-darkside-rear-tires-tested#38050
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 10:51

roadrunner wrote:
That said, I think our admin, Bill (Honda_Silver), has done the research and determined the Sumitomo to be the best.

I have only used Sumitomo Darkside tires (~50,000 miles). They work well for me, so I have no need to investigate other tires.
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 12:22

Well I found my new tire on ebay. It was listed for $42, never been mounted, but it also included a "make an offer" I made an offer of $35 and got this tire, with $15 for shipping. So the total costs will be $50.

BRIDGESTONE 165SR13 BT70

I expect to mount this after my motorcycle trip from Seattle to New Orleans and back, with many points in between. I will be leaving on Dec. 6., and returning on the 24th.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 14:33

larryinseattle wrote:
Well I found my new tire on ebay. It was listed for $42, never been mounted, but it also included a "make an offer" I made an offer of $35 and got this tire, with $15 for shipping. So the total costs will be $50.

BRIDGESTONE 165SR13 BT70

Did you ask for the Date of tire manufacture from the sidewall??
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 15:27

honda_silver wrote:
larryinseattle wrote:
Well I found my new tire on ebay. It was listed for $42, never been mounted, but it also included a "make an offer" I made an offer of $35 and got this tire, with $15 for shipping. So the total costs will be $50.

BRIDGESTONE 165SR13 BT70

Did you ask for the Date of tire manufacture from the sidewall??

Thanks for your concern.

No, I did not. I know what you are speaking of, but I am not concerned about a two or three year old tire in a warehouse. I will wear it out in two or three years, well in advance of it becoming date obsolete.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 15:47

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:57; edited 1 time in total
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 18:15

bigbird wrote:
honda_silver wrote:

Did you ask for the Date of tire manufacture from the sidewall??

The least of his problems will be the date of manufacture. rolling laughter

I don't know anyone who likes a know it all. You act as though you are one. Are you?

Please spare me of any more of your wisdom. I have my experience with car tires and the last thing I need is a nay sayer wasting my time and keystrokes. Now go on and bother someone else with your drivel.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 18:43

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:57; edited 4 times in total
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 18:44

interest
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 19:09

bigbird wrote:
larryinseattle wrote:

I don't know anyone who likes a know it all. You act as though you are one. Are you?
Please spare me of any more of your wisdom. I have my experience with car tires and the last thing I need is a nay sayer wasting my time and keystrokes. Now go on and bother someone else with your drivel.


Am I a know it all? Hardly.
Am I experienced in things mechanical and Swing related? Reasonably.
You don't like my drivel?
[Moderator removed line]

Perhaps we got off to the wrong start.

You seem to know all there is about tires.

Is there a God? You might have a worthy answer to such a question, but your opinion of my choice was not asked for, nor appreciated by me.

I know about MY TIRES AND MY CHOICES. You, my friend miss my first post on this thread. I specifically stated that I didn't want to debate the car tire / MC tire. I know what I want. I asked for information regarding what fits on the Swing. I didn't ask you anything.

Let me give you a bit of advice. Just because you have an opinion, does not mean that the majority of forum members want to hear your sarcasm. You weren't asked to pop your mouth off, (moderator removed this word due to disrespect)..... you chose to. And you got a response you didn't like.

[ Moderator removed insulting line ]

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Opalsboy
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 19:47

BTW would putting a motorcycle tire on an automobile be called "Light Side" ? Laughing
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:06

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 15:57; edited 2 times in total
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:20

bigbird wrote:
You don't like my drivel?

The poster requested "Can the debaters now leave this thread alone and let the people who want to discuss darkside options, discuss darkside options and questions and answers."

I doubt you would enjoy other people interrupting constantly to the topics you may be interested in ... please try to be considerate of others.

NO MEMBER should ever be telling another member to go away. If there a problem with a member, then please notify the Moderators.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:27

I defend BigBird. I think he knows how to turn wrenches.

As to tires and the poster who told BigBird to do it to himself----I assume your 2 wheel experience has passed the million mile mark. AND of course you wil be mounting the car tire yourself. Learn about DOT marking on side of tire.

I like scooters on scooter tires.
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:35

Thank you Honda_Silver for your immediate interjection.

Would you please remove his foul language from this family forum and brief him on the terms and conditions? If possible, please remove his permission to respond to this thread based on his continued aggressive behavior.
Thank you.

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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:44

I use to really enjoy this site and I'll really hate it if it dies or I have to leave. All of this "manly" stuff ("go have sex with yourself and the words "go f*%# myself") simply has no place on this forum... I don't care who it is or who started it. So if someone wants to be a "real" man then "man-up" and offer some apology; if not to each other, at least to the rest of the forum. Do you talk to your wives, girlfriends, children, parents, grandparents, sisters or brothers like that??? Well, that's who's on this forum. Many different folks who don't need that kind of crap.

So please knock it off and act like you've got at least a modicum of sense. If nothing else, I hope the admin knocks you off till you come to your senses.
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:51

roadrunner wrote:
Larry,

I personally don't darkside, but if that's your intention I would think you would want the tire with the most rounded shoulder profile you could find.

That said, I think our admin, Bill (Honda_Silver), has done the research and determined the Sumitomo to be the best. Your local Discount Tire may not carry it though.

Here's a link to Bill's research thread: http://www.silverwing600.com/t4166-silverwing-darkside-rear-tires-tested#38050

Thank you Bill.
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: Darkside Tire Q & A   Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:55

Opalsboy wrote:
BTW would putting a motorcycle tire on an automobile be called "Light Side" ? Laughing

That is funny....

It would be illegal. A typical motorcycle tire does not have enough weight rating to quality to be installed on a car tire.

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