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 Silverwing Surging

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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:29 am

ozbar wrote:
Suggestions????


If you can legally remove the restrictors, do so.
If you can't, then retake your test so that you can?
The third option is to get the throttles synched properly. You'll need a vacuum gauge and shop tach to do so. I suggest a competent shop for that.
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ozbar
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:29 am

I can't Bigbird...well not legally anyhoo. If i have a crash and the insurance company checks to see that a restrictor kit is fitted, and its not there then I'm in deep doodoo. It would be interesting to see how it rides without it and if the kit is my prob??
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ozbar
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:30 am

My honda shop could probably do the third option...what would that do??
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edbancro
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:47 am

ozbar wrote:
My honda shop could probably do the third option...what would that do??


I agree with bigbird - if they didn't synchronize when they installed, then they should have. Synchronizing the throttle makes sure all the cylinders are sucking in the same amount of air for any given throttle position. If they're not, then it can make the engine feel rough and underpowered (since one cylinder is contributing less than the other(s)). It should be done any time you do something that might throw it off: like remove the throttle bodies, adjust valves, mess with the jets (on carb'ed bikes), or if you are forced to cut down the power.

Since we have a twin, that makes it easier to synchronize the throttles, and you can actually do it without vacuum gauges. I did it lots of times on my Ninja EX250 using the two-bottle "tool" described on this page, and it worked great every time (which was good since I was always fiddling with the stupid carbs...). I don't know how easy it is to access everything to do this on the SWing, but in general it's something than can be done on a twin by someone with average (or maybe just slightly above) tinkering skills.
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ozbar
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:11 am

I would imagine the first thing i should do is call them and ask if that is something that they would have done, once the restrictor was fitted. If it hasn't been done i should insist it is done and take the bike down. If it has been done, I'm still going to take it in, and get them to re-look at the install.

Anything else..??
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 am

ozbar wrote:
My honda shop could probably do the third option...what would that do??


They would attach the vacuum gauge to the throttle body for each cylinder, and measure the vacuum on each at a specific rpm. They would compare these two vacuum readings. They would then adjust the throttle body stop screw/s to make sure both throttle bodies open and close precisely in synch with each other.

Sorry, but I can't see the point of driving a Swing if it only has the performance of a 125cc engine. It's way too big and heavy to be choked by throttle restrictions. I would either upgrade my licence to get those damn restrictors out of there, or get a smaller bike so that those 125cc of power can actually do something.
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ozbar
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:33 am

The throttle restrictor doesnt restrict my performance really. I was driving yesterday at 87mph. The Lower and mid performance arn't affected i don't think. As far as i'm aware the restictor kit just doesn't allow me to go flat out. I road a 125cc s wing before this...believe me theres no comparison..
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:40 am

ozbar wrote:
The throttle restrictor doesnt restrict my performance really. I was driving yesterday at 87mph. The Lower and mid performance arn't affected i don't think. As far as i'm aware the restictor kit just doesn't allow me to go flat out. I road a 125cc s wing before this...believe me theres no comparison..


That's good. I have no experience with throttle restriction. If it gives you up to 75% throttle, then that's much better.
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ozbar
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:46 am

which is making me think maybe the restrictor is something that just stops me using all of the throttle cable...instead of conected to the engine in some way, like edbancro mentioned...
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:49 am

ozbar wrote:
which is making me think maybe the restrictor is something that just stops me using all of the throttle cable...i


That's exactly what they do.
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ozbar
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:03 am

Mmm
When i thought that some sort of maintenance hadn't been done related to the restrictor kit...i was sort of please as i knew it was just a case of rectifying it. Now it could turn out that its simply a screw stoping my throttle cable extending all the way. (An expensive screw at £170) in which case its something else causing this surging....
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:19 am

ozbar wrote:
(An expensive screw at £170) in which case its something else causing this surging....


It's probably all labour cost. Those small machined cams don't cost much to manufacture.
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ozbar
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:27 am

thanks to everybody for their help and advice. Once i find out what the problem is i'll post it here just in case it happens again..ride safe
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ozbar
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:17 am

So the bike went into Honda today, and after two techs took her out for a ride they both reckon that theres nothing wrong with her (read: Its all in my head ) Sad The salesman who sold her to me is going to give me a third opinion when he takes it out for a spin tomorrow, before i pick it up in the morning. So what do I do?? Do i conceed that the bike has a few niggles and just get on with it or do I sell her, (probably losing £500-£1000 even though i've not done 100 miles on her yet)....
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:33 am



I quoted the general instructions from the website you linked to:

"With more and more bikes being produced with fuel injection systems this type of restriction is becoming more popular. The basics of the kit are that a device is attached to the side of the injection bodies which stops the throttle cam from opening fully. This is normally combined with restriction blades that go into the air box or sometimes the inlet manifolds. Generally each of these kits has specific fitting instructions that are delivered with the kit."

The part that bothers me is that they normally combine a restriction blade in the airbox or intake manifold along with the throttle cam stop.

Restricting airflow during normal throttle operation will have an adverse effect on the fuel injection. Less air means less fuel will be delivered. This could send the FI into a lean mode causing surging. I'm no engineer, but it seems that if you want to limit HP, you simply limit throttle travel with the cam stops. I don't know why they would tinker with airflow. Airflow is dependent on throttle opening. If you limit the throttle opening, you're already limiting airflow. Why not try removing the blades in the airbox or intake manifold, while leaving the throttle limiter in place? Maybe discuss this with your tech?

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ozbar
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:01 pm

hey BigBird
I've been assured that the restriction is simply a throttle stop, theres no connection to the engine in anyway...so i've been told.

Can i ask u something..

Next time ur out on your bike can u tell me wot u feel when ur holding say 30 mph on a straight. Any jerkyness, jiggles? or just very smooth. maybe its just me. The tech told me because its a CVT bike and not a traditional geared bike i'm bound to feel slight variations. Thanks again for all your help.
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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:20 pm

ozbar wrote:


Next time ur out on your bike can u tell me wot u feel when ur holding say 30 mph on a straight. Any jerkyness, jiggles? or just very smooth. maybe its just me. The tech told me because its a CVT bike and not a traditional geared bike i'm bound to feel slight variations. Thanks again for all your help.


At a steady 50 km/hr my Swing is perfectly smooth, no surging or vibrating.
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Sweendog
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:04 am

ozbar wrote:
hey BigBird
Next time ur out on your bike can u tell me wot u feel when ur holding say 30 mph on a straight. Any jerkyness, jiggles? or just very smooth. maybe its just me. The tech told me because its a CVT bike and not a traditional geared bike i'm bound to feel slight variations. Thanks again for all your help.


I run steady at all speeds, I have a long run down a street on the way to work that has a 30mph, 35mph and 45mph zones, and I notice no surging while traveling in any of them.
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GaryL
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:48 pm

Mine is smooth at those speeds as long as the road is just as smooth. If there are any ripples or bumps, then it will appear to surge because I cannot hold the touchy throttle steady enough under those circumstances. No
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:01 pm

Mine, too; at 30KPH over the cobbles in Bruges it's impossible to operate the throttle smoothly.

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paul_scooter
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:02 pm

I have 49k on my 2004 swing. I did have surging as you at the same speeds. I did two things at the same time. I put in stp gas treatment ( fuel injection cleaner ) and i went to a middle octane gas. The surging went away and I'm back to regular gas now. Its cheap and easy to try, let me know if it helps.
Paul
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Silverwing Surging

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