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 Aux Fuel Tank

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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Aux Fuel Tank   Fri 06 Aug 2010, 22:52

Hammy

Here's a link to that aux fuel tank I mentioned that the Burgman guy is using. His was a 3 gal tank complete with a nice ballistic fabric cover IIRC.
http://www.tourtank.com/ttproducts.html

It's sure not the tunnel tank you're looking for, but this one is top quality.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 08:30

I have the 3 gal. tank I used for a west coast tour. I came in handy in one place due to my not paying attention. Havent used it since but keep it for next 10k trip pulling my trailer. This is on my M/C.

I cannnot do extended rides between fillups anymore due to back and other factors. 100 miles and I am ready to stop for a bit. Walk, stretch etc.

They are good tanks. Well built. If you get one get it fitted for IBA specs. Vent , Puke res., etc. quick disconnets, shut off valve.

The shut off valve came in handy with one non sealing coupling to be able to fill my dual fuel stoves on the road. (nothing like fresh coffee when you are sitting , looking at the vistas.
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

I had mounted the tank in the tail trunk. I forgot you couldn't see it.

MaxB
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 09:17

Yep, I've seen the tourtank... thanks Tim! I'm probably gonna go the same route and mount in on my rear rack on the Swing so I can access my underseat storage, and then use a big Ortlieb dry bag from Aerostich cable-locked to the rear racks for when I do a long ride for my clothes and other supplies... I love my saddlebags but the cost to fuel economy is just not good.

Max, did you drill a hole into a gas cap and plumb the line there? Do you have to wait till the reserve light comes on and then dump the tank into the main, or can you actually ride with the valve open and continually dumping?
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 09:38

[quote="Cosmic_Jumper"]Hammy

Here's a link to that aux fuel tank I mentioned that the Burgman guy is using. His was a 3 gal tank complete with a nice ballistic fabric cover.[/quote]

Here's the install links from the BUSA board by Sean, the "burgman guy" to get an idea what's needed for an installon the wing.


http://burgmanusa.com/bkb/3+Gal+Tour+Tank+pt1

http://burgmanusa.com/bkb/3+Gal+Tour+Tank+pt2

http://burgmanusa.com/bkb/3+Gal+Tour+Tank+pt3
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 10:59

Thanks! That setup looks a little different and more complicated than what I was thinking of doing in terms of plumbing. I probably would have to rig up a plate rack the same way one would mount a Givi...
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 19:27

What I think would be kinda cool would be a small 2 gallon extra fuel tank that would set in front of our regular gas tank in the foot sump area and have a line that goes thru the gas cap on the main tank and the extra tank would have a hand pump so we could pump gas into our main tank when we are on the move. That would work for me.

Just a thought

OR....A set of fuel blader tanks in a saddle bag configuration with a low flow electric pump.
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 22:42

I like your idea Dennis! If you can fabricate that, I'd buy it! My hope was to essentially fill the space in the tunnel with a tank that would have a flat area and a cap on the top. However, most tanks would not be able to fit in that small space and have a capacity that's sneezeworthy.

I really like the idea of having fuel bladders, but those wouldn't work for the IBA rides and other similar rallies that have very strict rules for aux fuel tanks, but where some of the checkpoints/bonuses have no gas stations for over 100 miles.
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 07 Aug 2010, 22:50

I'm wondering if there's any way to rig a pair of 1.6gallon 6x16 tanks (http://www.coyote-gear.com/cg6dt.html) on the sides of the bike like saddlebags using the bolts for the grabrails and just plumb them both into the gas cap, maybe using a T or that pump idea? The form factors much better than the saddlebags I was using before and I could still access my underseat storage and have a topcase with that set up.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sun 08 Aug 2010, 11:23

Hammy wrote:


Max, did you drill a hole into a gas cap and plumb the line there? Do you have to wait till the reserve light comes on and then dump the tank into the main, or can you actually ride with the valve open and continually dumping?

Hammy, on my M/C I had a carbed motor I just had a T into the carb feed line and used Aux first with main tank valve in the off position. Then when the Aux was empty I closed that valve and opened the Main tank to on. When that was dry I would swith to reserve and start looking for gas station.

I have not put a Aux. tank on the Swing or any other Fuel injected bike yet.

I did a little looking into the Swing add on last night.

After looking at diagrams and Service manual Ther may be a way with out Tapping into the filler cap. Leaving it as is.

The Swing tank has a built in Fuel pump which pressurizes the fuel rail to the injectors. Can't do it on the "High pressure side"

The fuel tank is not pressurized. There is a vent above the fill cap on the tank. Look at diagram of OEM PARTS

there are 3 lines into the tank
1. High Pressure
2. Fuel rail return line
3. Vent line (to evap canister)

There may be a easy way to fill the main tank from an Aux tank.

You may be able to tap in to the return line near the end of the fuel rail. Can be seen when you remove the spark plug access cover. This is a low pressure line that just returns fuel to the main tank. (Use a backflow valve and self sealing quick disconnect here on the aux tank feed for safety)

The Problems I see with just very little study are:
1. the return line may have too much pressure to allow gravity feed from Aux.
This can be remedied by an inline fuel pump.
2. Since the main tank has a vent, you cannot just let the Aux tank flow randomly. You must have some way to keep it off until the main tank is below the level that when you feed from the Aux. tank it will not run out of the vent line. (messes up the evap canister and then drops fuel on the ground. You could use an electric solenoid valve or just a manual valve inline from the aux tank. When the main tank is empty Last bar is blinking, open the line from the Aux. tank and refill. When the bars on the gas gage are all on shut off the Aux tank valve.

All can be remedied.

I do not want to do all the research at this time for a install on a Swing. But this should give you a good start.

MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sun 08 Aug 2010, 13:36

Hammy wrote:
I'm wondering if there's any way to rig a pair of 1.6gallon 6x16 tanks (http://www.coyote-gear.com/cg6dt.html) on the sides of the bike like saddlebags using the bolts for the grabrails and just plumb them both into the gas cap, maybe using a T or that pump idea? The form factors much better than the saddlebags I was using before and I could still access my underseat storage and have a topcase with that set up.

Two things hammy:
1. Check your IBA rules for max fuel you can have on a bike. look it up and figure out you max tank size. Plus they state that you Have to have a gas receipt al Least every 350 miles.
2. The idea fo tanks mounted on the side of the scoot/ MC , scares me. if you slide on the asphalt ......well you get the idea. Imagine Large flames licking at your backside.

maxB (??????????)
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sun 08 Aug 2010, 22:46

Max fuel is 7.5 gallons I believe if not stock (that's overall), and yes, you must stop every 350 miles. Which is fine. With the mileage I'm getting, I just want to be able to get to 250 miles fully loaded.

As for tanks on the side... I guess would it really be all that different from those tanks on the back that are longer than the width?

I just want the simplest solution, which I thought would be to just plumb a line into the gas cap, wait for the last bar to go off, then open a valve and refill the tank. I was thinking I could mount a 3 gallon tank on a plate on the rear rack, and then just use a big drybag bungeed onto the passenger seat for clothes and travel stuff, while the underseat would be reserved for all emergency equipment and tools.
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 09:56

Borrowed from another site:

Someone posted about this on the Two Wheeled Texans board. It is a gas can designed to fit inside the back of the side cases on a Harley but I bet a place could be found for one many scooters. One gallon of gas in a spill proof and vapor proof container. If you were traveling across someplace like West Texas where stations are few and far between it might give a little more security.



Here is a link to their web site http://www.reda-innovations.com/rgc_home.html
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 10:00

Thanks. I use a Rotopax (www.rotopax.com) for spare gas, it's also 1 gallon, though there are sizes up to 3 gallons as well. Tourtank (www.tourtank.com) also makes tourtubes in up to 2 gallon sizes which are designed specifically to be easy to fill and dump into gas tanks. BUT they're all really expensive.

I just bought a 3.5 gallon Tourtank. Now I'm going to try and figure out with my fellow Silverwing buddies how to get this thing mounted in a way I can live with.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 05:57

The rules over your side of the pond seem a bit tighter than over here Sad I needed to do a longish trip (for Europe anyway) in a short period of time and decided to fit two aux tanks to my 650 SWing. I purchased two 10 litre jerry cans and a fuel tank from a Honda Eurosport.

With a little extra jiggery pokery I could have used the original tank, but as the Euro one fitted straight on almost it wasn't worth the extra time needed.

The Euro has one big bonus - a fuel gauge sender unit in the tank. I used this to send a signals to an on board pump to keep my main topped up. Suffice to say I wasn't carrying a pillion, only my gear for a few days away.

Each Jerry can was mounted in virtually the same way as those of the panniers they replaced (with some reinforcing). Had I dropped the bike, its entirely possible they may have come free, but thankfully I didn't.

I fed the pump via a single fuel line from each can cap and a plastic 'T' junction, and also installed a one way valve in each of the caps to stop a vacum forming in side the tank.

If I was (and am considering) going to fit an aux fuel tank to the 600 then I think my choice of location is going to be the 'over the transmission tunnel' variety.

Mounting the tank on the top box pad, while easier, doesn't that add to the already top-heavy feel of the machine (personal opinion only)? Tanks mounted in the 'pannier style' would need mountings of monsterous proportions to carry any real weight of fuel! My first test trip on the 650 taught me I needed to reinforce things.... Besides the width issue. Mind you that isn't to much of a problem over in the US etc. as it is here in the UK were I seem to spend 50% of my time filtering in traffic! Sad

Using space under the seat - while keeing within the centre of gravity specifics - also reduces load carrying capability, something which is already at a premium on our bikes.

Unfortunately I've got shed loads to do in the workshop but if I do get around to prototyping anything I'll post pictures up on here. In the mean time I'll be very interested to hear and see what the rest of you have done about this.

BTW has anybody looked into running an FJS on LPG??? An underseat tank for that would be well worth the sacrifice of space.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 08:54

That sounds like quite a picture, Skippy. Did you happen to take any photos?

At this point, I'd really like to just mount the tank on the pillion somehow, maybe using the grab rail brackets. I don't like the idea of having the fuel tank so far up and back on the rail, though most people I know usually put their aux tanks there. I don't know that the tunnel would have enough space to put more than an extra gallon or 2 of fuel in a customized tank extension, but that would be ideal if someone could rig that up. Unfortunately, my legs are so short, I'd need a stepladder to swing my leg over if there wasn't a tunnel!

I wouldn't mind foregoing the underseat storage but I've been thinking of a crazy idea. I have a buddy of mine who works with metal and can weld and fabricate stuff for me. I was thinking of maybe rigging up a mounting plate that could have 2 swingarms on either side that are attached to the rear rack. It would kinda be like one of those expanding toolbox trays where you open the lid and the trays swing out and back. I could then rest the tank and plate on the pillion and use ratcheting straps to secure onto the grab rails. When I want to access the underseat, I would swing the tank and plate up and off the seat in order to open the trunk. I know... crazy idea, but at least I would be able to get into the trunk if need be.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 09:27

Hi Hammy,

My arm rest kit swings up and back. The aux tank would need to be made so that the tank filler/breather would always be in the top position (swivel up) when swung back or to the sides to prevent fuel leakage. Sounds doable to me!
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 09:41

Anyone know how strong those grabrails are? One of the tests that the IBA does is for Warchild to grab your tank and shake the stuffing out of it. He's a big guy so if the tank stays put after he's done shaking it, it passes. Do you think that if I used ratcheting straps on the grabrails to secure the tank to the pillion, that those rails would hold up to a 250lb gorilla? I'm 265 and I think the grabrails are pretty sturdy...
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 11:18

Sorry Bro,

All the pictures I have of that particular mod got lost when my last pc lunched its hard drive Sad

I know 'Back Up' eveything............ Suspect Sometimes other things get in the way of what you know you should be doing What a Face
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PostSubject: 3 gal Aux Tank experiment?   Mon 17 Jan 2011, 13:04

Below are some preliminary pics of an aux tank I've been mousing around with on my Burgy.

It's black, roto-molded and made of cross-linked polyethylene (read: no seams), so it's super strong. All sides are .2" thick and anchor points and ports are internally built up for extra strength. The forward bulkhead is slanted to accommodate any backrests. It is low enough to clear a GIVI E52 top case when open. Empty and with fittings it weighs 3 pounds 12 ounces. Capacity is about 3.2 gallons. Should weigh about 23 pounds when filled.

It will use a 1/4" ball valve to refill and will be able to gravity refill on the fly. The idea is to ALMOST drain the 4-gallon OEM tank first, then flip the ball valve open which will almost refill the OEM tank, this eliminates any need for a puke tank.

Not sure how to plumb it in on the SWing. The modified fuel cap I used earlier on my SWing (RIP) is too much of a hassle.
There are some port/connectors out there that can be added to tanks without welding. Just use a step drill for the proper hole size (put a glob of grease around the drill bit to catch any chips from falling inside, there's a filter in there anyway) and install the grommet and fitting. The edges have been radiused to minimize any saddle wear, however a 1" foam bedding between the saddle and tank might be advisable.

It'll be secured to the pillion portion of the saddle using 1" nylon straps. It'll be fastened to the saddle instead of the handrails to enable it to be opened with the tank still on, however the saddle would need some sort of prop to hold it open with the extra weight.
This is intended to be a temporary tank for long trips and should be able to be installed and removed in about 5 minutes. The addition of marine quick connect/disconnect couplings fuel fittings would also be a consideration.

The bad news...no passenger...the good news...over 350 mile range.

Whit

P.S. There's a couple other pics I'd like to add but don't seem to be able to do it.
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Last edited by Whitster on Mon 17 Jan 2011, 13:08; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Tried to add 2 more pics...no joy.)
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Sat 13 Aug 2011, 11:30

Whit had sent me a few more photos for inclusion in this thread. I have no information about this you would need to contact Whit (see the message above).

As you can see this is mounted on a Burgman 650 (or Bergman if you own a Suzuki), Whit tells me he could adapt this to a Silverwing.











I have no information about this you would need to contact Whit (see the message above).
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Wed 24 Aug 2011, 23:56

Do a search for:

MSR Fuel Bottles

You may find it at your local camping place.
Aluminum can. I have two under my seat for when I ride at night in places that I should not be.

I was suppose to ride from Austin to San Francisco and I really looked in to taking extra gas.

There is something not a lot of people know about. Those red plastic containers you buy from the gas station or hardware store there are NOT D.O.T. approved. That means that you can get a ticket for storing them outside your vehicle. Also there are a static magnet.

____________________________________

Never ever fill up a container inside a vehicle. Your tires are not conductive. The container has to touch the ground.

ALWAYS put the container on the ground when filling up and do the same before dispensing the gas. Touch metal things to make sure your are not charged up before coming in contact with gas vapors.

The liquid gas itself will not ignite easy. You can actually shoot a gas container and it will not explode. As soon as you get in touch with the vapors that's when even smallest static can blow it up. The phone warning on the gas station...that is soooo true.

If you don't know about accidental gas can explosions do a search on youtube. It's scary.

Drive safe Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Thu 25 Aug 2011, 08:40

lucian wrote:
Do a search for:

MSR Fuel Bottles

You may find it at your local camping place.
Aluminum can. I have two under my seat for when I ride at night in places that I should not be.

I was suppose to ride from Austin to San Francisco and I really looked in to taking extra gas.

There is something not a lot of people know about. Those red plastic containers you buy from the gas station or hardware store there are NOT D.O.T. approved. That means that you can get a ticket for storing them outside your vehicle. Also there are a static magnet.

____________________________________

Never ever fill up a container inside a vehicle. Your tires are not conductive. The container has to touch the ground.

ALWAYS put the container on the ground when filling up and do the same before dispensing the gas. Touch metal things to make sure your are not charged up before coming in contact with gas vapors.

The liquid gas itself will not ignite easy. You can actually shoot a gas container and it will not explode. As soon as you get in touch with the vapors that's when even smallest static can blow it up. The phone warning on the gas station...that is soooo true.

If you don't know about accidental gas can explosions do a search on youtube. It's scary.

Drive safe Smile

+1 on MSR bottles! I have several, thank god for pressurized cans now, no more pumping! I have carried one before when on lonely stretches.

And gas tanks on the tail look retarded, no matter who comes up with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 12 Sep 2011, 04:22

Another +1 on MSR fuel bottles. Just remember no matter how you store spare gas that it gets used fairly soon after filling your container because fuel oxidizes and ruins performance over time. The more your container breathes, the faster oxidation will happen. Plastic gas cans generally breathe a lot while the old-fashioned metal cans don't if closed properly. Good gas is golden in color but oxidized gas is more red than golden. I have worked on gas (100LL & 80 octane) tanks in aircraft wings before and when sparks were possible, the rule was, fill 'er up first so there were no fumes to ignite. Need to store gas for a long while? Fill up the tank first then use Stabil in it but don't expect a lot of performance out of it. I was told that gas that is stored for more than six months should probably be replaced.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Mon 12 Sep 2011, 09:11

What about these guys? I'm thinking about a Type II for my long hauls late at night between El Paso and Tempe. Lot of gas stations and truck stops on that route but even so I've come close a couple of times to walking.

http://store.interstateproducts.com/safety_storage_cans.htm?gclid=CNC3m8zil6sCFRJW7AodRkU1gg

I'd store an Eagle 2 gal. in my t-box. I have saddlebags, a tunnel bag, and an underseat bag so plenty of other storage.
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PostSubject: Re: Aux Fuel Tank   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 03:53




This is my solution to get extra fuel with me. I took a bigger tank with me to Norway, but it was too big to ride with every day. This tank is for 2,5 litres made by Givi and is enough to ride about 50 kms, normally  enough to find a petrol station. The bigger red tank doesn´t need any fasteners for it´s shape. For the Givi tank I used Gorilla tape, Stronger than the usual duck tape, and a packing strap. (I´m not able to insert the lower photo right despite of rolling it every direction, sorry).
There has never been need for the spare fuel during my trips and sometimes I´ve even considered to leave it home. Sooner or later you´ll have to fill the tank anyway. I´m able to ride about 310-320 kms without the spare fuel.
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