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 Drive belt questions

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GaryL
Super Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:35 am


That could very well be the case. That belt is 8 years old, and may be showing it's age. I suggest that it's time for a belt inspection. Look at the how to section in this forum on belt replacement. It tells you how to pull the cover off and take a look. If there is any doubt, replace it. One of our members had a belt let go at similar mileage and was stranded many miles from home until he could get it replaced.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:08 am

ridr44 wrote:
I have an 02 SW with 10.000miles. Recently I notice when accelerating quickly there seems to be slipping.


At what speed(s)?

_________________
Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS

Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire

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ridr44
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:30 am

I have noticed it so far when I gun it to either get on the highway or if I'm cruiseing along at say 55 and gun it up to 75...it slips and then kind of winds up suddenly...
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:49 am

ridr44 wrote:
I have noticed it so far when I gun it to either get on the highway or if I'm cruiseing along at say 55 and gun it up to 75...it slips and then kind of winds up suddenly...


At those speeds it would be either the belt or the belt debris ( needs cleaning ).

I agree based on age of the belt, it may be safer to change it.

_________________
Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS

Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire

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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:25 pm

honda_silver wrote:

At those speeds it would be either the belt or the belt debris ( needs cleaning ).


Or the clutch?
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:14 pm

bigbird wrote:
honda_silver wrote:

At those speeds it would be either the belt or the belt debris ( needs cleaning ).


Or the clutch?


After 15 MPH the clutch disengages.

_________________
Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS

Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire

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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:55 pm


If the belt is 8 years old I would replace it. I'm sure that the belt is like tires where age effects it too. But this is just my opinion. You might also check the torque of the bolt that secures the variator. If it is not torqued as much as it should that may also get rpm's to rev or feel like the clutch is slipping. Just a thought.

_________________
Ride safe,

JeffR

2007 Silver Wing (30,000 miles)
2005 Majesty 400 (sold 12,500 miles)
2004 Reflex (sold 3,500 miles)

Givi Windshield, top case, vista cruise, power commander, dr pulley sliders, air hawk seat pad, (J. Costa not installed now), kevlar belt

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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:09 pm

honda_silver wrote:
bigbird wrote:
honda_silver wrote:

At those speeds it would be either the belt or the belt debris ( needs cleaning ).


Or the clutch?


After 15 MPH the clutch disengages.


Huh? The clutch is engaged above 15 mph. If it weren't, there would be no connection between the front variator and the final drive.
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Excell
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:45 am

bigbird wrote:
honda_silver wrote:
bigbird wrote:
honda_silver wrote:

At those speeds it would be either the belt or the belt debris ( needs cleaning ).


Or the clutch?


After 15 MPH the clutch disengages.


Huh? The clutch is engaged above 15 mph. If it weren't, there would be no connection between the front variator and the final drive.

That is right bigbird .I would also be looking at the variator probably sticking .If the clutch starts slipping you should smell it .
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:05 pm

bigbird wrote:
Huh? The clutch is engaged above 15 mph. If it weren't, there would be no connection between the front variator and the final drive.


I have been going through the Service Manual hoping to understand how the the clutch mechanics better.

I did notice under the Drive Pulley/Driven Pulley/Clutch Troubleshooting it has this section:


Poor performance at high speed or lack of power
* Worn drive belt
* Weak driven face spring
* Worn weight rollers
* Contaiminated pulley faces


They do not mention anything about the clutch.


_________________
Bill - Georgetown TX 07 Silver Wing ABS

Clearview w/vent, Givi E96/TB19/E52 with Admore Lighting, Alaskan Leather, Wrist Rests, 3M Solas tape, K&N air, Hyperpro spring, Grip Puppies, Airhawk, Utopia backrest, Stebel, Apexcone HIDs, StingerZ LEDs (w/Backoff WigWag), Knight Rider Sequential LED, NGK Iridium, Power Commander III, Manic Salamander, Saeng mirrors, Garmin Zumo 660, Dark-Side Sumitomo Tire

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Excell
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:16 am

Worn driven face spring ,is part of the clutch .Just different terminology .
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:27 am

I've noticed a drop in MPG lately. I have had the J-Costa installed for about 8K now and I'm thinking the pins are wearing down, need to look at them. So here soon, I'll be going back to the Stock Honda variator. It's like new with only 2K on it and planing to use a little dry lub (graphite) on the rollers to help them on there mission.

I'll let you all know what I find out about the J-Costa pin wear. Does anyone know what the wear limit is on the J-Costa pins?
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MaxB
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:13 am

DennisB wrote:
I've noticed a drop in MPG lately. I have had the J-Costa installed for about 8K now and I'm thinking the pins are wearing down, need to look at them. So here soon, I'll be going back to the Stock Honda variator. It's like new with only 2K on it and planing to use a little dry lub (graphite) on the rollers to help them on there mission.

I'll let you all know what I find out about the J-Costa pin wear. Does anyone know what the wear limit is on the J-Costa pins?


Dennis , I don;t know for a fact the wear limits on the pins in a J costa.
Email scooter trap and get the skinny on the wear limit.

My guess is :
the pins have a small dimple/hole in the end and when it is worn to the bottom , it would be time to change them..

New considerations:
has your RPM's increased? that would be a better indicator than drop in MPG's.
As you know many things can affect the MPG on a scoot.
Try some fuel injector additive before changing out variator. I have found that doing this brings back the MPG. (this is on most of my vehicles)

If you do look at the variator, Keep me posted on the wear, Mine are at 7k now. Just not ready to tear it down just yet.

MaxB
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Sweendog
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:15 am

DennisB wrote:
I've noticed a drop in MPG lately. I have had the J-Costa installed for about 8K now and I'm thinking the pins are wearing down, need to look at them. So here soon, I'll be going back to the Stock Honda variator. It's like new with only 2K on it and planing to use a little dry lub (graphite) on the rollers to help them on there mission.

I'll let you all know what I find out about the J-Costa pin wear. Does anyone know what the wear limit is on the J-Costa pins?

The relatively short pin life on the J. Costa is one of the main reasons I haven't gotten one yet. Can you tell me if you need to take the whole thing apart to replace the pins? It just seems like such a hassle. Neutral
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:23 am

Yeah, The whole darn thing needs to be taken apart. Would not be so bad if I had a M/C lift. Working on the floor kinda gets to me after a while. This will give me a real good op to measure the belt to see how it's holding up.
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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 am

Sweendog wrote:
Can you tell me if you need to take the whole thing apart to replace the pins? It just seems like such a hassle.


To pull the outer cover and remove the front variator to change the pins is really not a big deal. I'll say 1/2 hour at most. It gives you a reason to clean the belt cover air filter and check the belt. To do that every 10k miles isn't too onerous to me. The price of the pins at $65 delivered also isn't extreme for every 10k miles. Don't let that stop you from considering a J. Costa.
The other line of thought is to use the stock Honda variator and replace the stock rollers with Dr. Pulley sliders in a lighter weight, such as 26gr. There have been good reports on that setup. Those go for $53 + shipping. I don't know what the expected life of the Dr. Pulley sliders are.
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DennisB
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:05 am

Thanks Guys for all the information.

Max, I'll head on over to Wal-Mart and pick up a small can of SEAFOAM and try it out. There's a PGR mission on Friday I'd like to Attend. 220 miles, one way. Give the scooter some sweet, high speed, highway miles. Just changed out the oil and filter...went with a full synthetic oil on this change. Motor sounds a little smoother on the full synthetic oil. sunny
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:24 am

DennisB wrote:
Just changed out the oil and filter...went with a full synthetic oil on this change. Motor sounds a little smoother on the full synthetic oil. sunny


I'm waiting with bated breath for Dale's reply to his favourite topic...engine oil!
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jdeereanton
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:03 am

Dang right it sounds a little smoother. Everyone knows that full synthetic will result in a pleasant aural tickling. A blend is not quite as soothing. And full dino oil is just so hard on the ears. My friend the symphonic tympany artist told me all about this years ago. He claims Shellbil 7 will make your motor sound like Beethoven. Razz

Not even related to the drive belt until I add I think that the kevlar belts sound like cellos. OEM are more like violas.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:18 am

There we go.
Spoken like a true believer in not only the Zen-like lubricating abilities of engine oil, but also the aural rhapsodies of distillated and hydrocracked petroleum circulating inside the Honda 582 cc parallel twin double overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder engine.
Whew!
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:44 am

bigbird wrote:
Sweendog wrote:
Can you tell me if you need to take the whole thing apart to replace the pins? It just seems like such a hassle.


To pull the outer cover and remove the front variator to change the pins is really not a big deal. I'll say 1/2 hour at most. It gives you a reason to clean the belt cover air filter and check the belt. To do that every 10k miles isn't too onerous to me. The price of the pins at $65 delivered also isn't extreme for every 10k miles. Don't let that stop you from considering a J. Costa.
The other line of thought is to use the stock Honda variator and replace the stock rollers with Dr. Pulley sliders in a lighter weight, such as 26gr. There have been good reports on that setup. Those go for $53 + shipping. I don't know what the expected life of the Dr. Pulley sliders are.


Hey Sweeney, I changed my belt with the help of JeffR's wonderful pictorials and Cosmic Jumper's guidance (plus Honda_Silver, DennisB et al). It'll probably take about 30 minutes to get everything off, lubed, and on. Lemme know if you need any help -- I have a 12V impact wrench that I now carry for the sole purpose of doing a belt change on the road. BTW, the new OEM belt I ordered from a dealer actually turned out to have a Mitsuboshi stamp on the belt. Why? I have no idea.

I also have the 26g sliders. I think you saw what those can do when you rode with me the other day. I actually got on the Pocono Raceway while on the Rock and Roll Ride for Autism, and reached 100mph actual (on me GPS, not me speedo) on the 1 mile straightaway when I ran out of room cos there were too many Harleys crowding the inner lane. I have no idea what the actual top speed is, but I love the improved acceleration over the stock rollers.
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Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:52 pm

My gas mileage always drops in the fall . They run richer longer . Maybe it is still warm there and that is not it . I am wearing double layers already .
those belts always look the same I have two used ones on my wall one is 02 the other 06 both changed when light came on ,both look like new .
i think the belts would last a lot longer to bad the variator is crap . So I replaced my friends drive belt for him ,I told him to make sure he got a Honda belt so he did . And printed on the back of it ,MItsubishi . What the ?
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:12 pm

Simple explanation for the Mitsuboshi markings on the belt.

That's who makes the belt. Honda doesn't manufacture (among other things) the belt, light bulbs, spark plugs, tires, etc... They use suppliers like Mitsuboshi, Sylvania, NGK, Bridgestone / IRC, etc.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:32 pm

J hear ya on gettting down there on the floor and working.

While you have it apart, don't forget to deglaze (take the shine off) the front variator pulleys. I use 400 or so grit paper/ your choice) This helps with slippage.

MaxB ( who just started taking an NSAID for back pain this week)
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Sweendog
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:51 pm

Hammy wrote:
bigbird wrote:
Sweendog wrote:
Can you tell me if you need to take the whole thing apart to replace the pins? It just seems like such a hassle.


To pull the outer cover and remove the front variator to change the pins is really not a big deal. I'll say 1/2 hour at most. It gives you a reason to clean the belt cover air filter and check the belt. To do that every 10k miles isn't too onerous to me. The price of the pins at $65 delivered also isn't extreme for every 10k miles. Don't let that stop you from considering a J. Costa.
The other line of thought is to use the stock Honda variator and replace the stock rollers with Dr. Pulley sliders in a lighter weight, such as 26gr. There have been good reports on that setup. Those go for $53 + shipping. I don't know what the expected life of the Dr. Pulley sliders are.


Hey Sweeney, I changed my belt with the help of JeffR's wonderful pictorials and Cosmic Jumper's guidance (plus Honda_Silver, DennisB et al). It'll probably take about 30 minutes to get everything off, lubed, and on. Lemme know if you need any help -- I have a 12V impact wrench that I now carry for the sole purpose of doing a belt change on the road. BTW, the new OEM belt I ordered from a dealer actually turned out to have a Mitsuboshi stamp on the belt. Why? I have no idea.

Hey Hammy,
Maybe I'll take you up on that offer this fall. I'm nearing the 16K mark, and will likely need to swap the belt out. I was planning on a doing a bunch of work on the Swing this fall and winter, but was going to leave the variator work to the shop.

I'd like to do the following:

  1. Add a grounding block and wire the front of the bike
  2. Permanet GPS wiring (already purchased)
  3. 12v accessory socket in the glove box. (maybe)
  4. Stebel nautilus air-horn
  5. Hyperpro springs (maybe)
  6. Replace drive belt, clean out housing, check clutch
  7. J. Costa variator (maybe)
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt questions   Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:54 pm

Hey sounds like you'll be doing a lot of stuff I'll probably also be doing at some point. I too want to add a better horn and add some extra wires and, when I can afford to, get Hyperpros.

Maybe we'll do a garage day somewhere. My garage is tiny and cluttered so it just gives me enough room to fit my Swing while the car sits outside.
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