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 Why J. Costa works so well

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bigbird
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PostSubject: Why J. Costa works so well   Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:02 pm

It dawned on me the other day why the J. Costa variator provides the tremendous rush of acceleration. While accelerating hard and watching my tach, I realized that the engine immediately climbs to 5500 rpm and holds there. As the Swing's speed increases the rpm still sit at that magical 5500rpm. Why 5500 rpm? After checking several websites, I was able to track down the engine's max torque output. It's 39.1 ft/lbs at, you guessed it, 5500 rpm.
No point spinning the engine faster than 5500rpm, as peak torque is where the engine is most efficient. Even though the engine produces max HP at 7000 rpm, the 5500 rpm mark is the sweet spot. The J.Costa engineers did their homework right in designing their variator to rise to and hold 5500 rpm while accelerating. Good job.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:28 pm

Am I correct in interpreting then that any variator/clutch mod that would rapidly get you to 5500 RPMs would get similar results as the J Costa? Like maybe lightweight Variator Rollers or Sliders combined with upgraded (say Malossi red or yellow) clutch springs?

Tim


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:41 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Am I correct in interpenetrating then that any variator/clutch mod that would rapidly get you to 5500 RPMs would get similar results as the J Costa? Like maybe lightweight Variator Rollers or Sliders combined with upgraded (say Malossi red or yellow) clutch springs?

Tim


Hi Tim. Love your word "interpenetrating". Conjures up thoughts of well, you know....
Back to the topic:
The J. Costa not only gets to 5500 rpm, but it stays there under the acceleration conditions. That is as much a function of the sliding pins as the shape of the drive sheave face. The clutch springs have no effect on the 5500 rpm. The clutch springs govern the engagement point of the rear drive, not the front drive. Once the rear drive is engaged by the clutch, it stays engaged until the rpm drop below the engagement point. The engagement point is way below 5500 rpm. If it wasn't, you'd have a screaming engine and neck snapping launch from every stop.
Lighter weight rollers or sliders could get you up to the 5500 rpm sweet spot, but it's the shape of the sheave that maintains the 5500 rpm spot. This is done by varying the ratio of the front of the belt to hold the 5500 rpm no matter what the road speed of the Swing. Again, this only applies while accelerating. On steady throttle, the sheave moves to "shift" the drive ratio to a higher ratio to lower engine rpm for less fuel consumption and engine wear.
Make sense?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:53 pm

Oops!, My mistake. I meant "interpreting". Oh well, it is the start of a holiday weekend.
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:49 am

My J Costa seems to work different from bigbird's.

If I am at a standstill and go WOT, it will hit 6900 or 7000 rpms. It will hold it until about 60 mph at which point it will start to drop a bit as speed continues to increase. It really is close to 7000 rpm, not 5500 rpm, on my scoot. Believe me, I have witnessed it many, many times since installing the J Costa!

I had read an article somewhere that stated that the engine has two horsepower peaks - 5500 and 7000, with 7000 having just a bit more hp.

Not sure why mine would be different - it is the only engine or transmission mod that I have done. Stock size tires (first IRC's then Diablos). Factory clutch.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:26 am

buddy19520 wrote:
My J Costa seems to work different from bigbird's.
If I am at a standstill and go WOT, it will hit 6900 or 7000 rpms. It will hold it until about 60 mph at which point it will start to drop a bit as speed continues to increase. It really is close to 7000 rpm, not 5500 rpm, on my scoot.
Not sure why mine would be different - it is the only engine or transmission mod that I have done. Stock size tires (first IRC's then Diablos). Factory clutch.


Mine may well do the same thing. I have never accelerated using WOT from a dead stop. I have never needed that kind of acceleration. I drive on the much more conservative side. My acceleration using WOT was from maybe 40 or 50km/h and up. I'm sure your description is the norm.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:31 pm

[quote="bigbird]
The J. Costa not only gets to 5500 rpm, but it stays there under the acceleration conditions. That is as much a function of the sliding pins as the shape of the drive sheave face.

... it's the shape of the sheave that maintains the 5500 rpm spot. This is done by varying the ratio of the front of the belt to hold the 5500 rpm no matter what the road speed of the Swing.[/quote]

So is it the shape (profile) of Ramp Plate and the variator Roller (Slider) Weight tracks --as in the OEM variator assy-- which effects the performance? Or is it the face angle of the belt pulley section of the variator which is changed?

Tim
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:34 pm

Tim: I'm no engineer. I believe from my snowmobile experience, which use a similar CVT, that the profile of the ramp plate in conjunction with the slider weights governs the rpm rise and the face angle ultimately determines the gear ratio. These three variables work together. I'm sure the J. Costa engineers did lots of tinkering with the ramp profile against which the sliders push and the face angle which grabs the belt between the sheaves for forward motion.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Why J. Costa works so well   Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:44 am

bigbird wrote:
Tim: I'm no engineer. I believe from my snowmobile experience, which use a similar CVT, that the profile of the ramp plate in conjunction with the slider weights governs the rpm rise and the face angle ultimately determines the gear ratio. These three variables work together. I'm sure the J. Costa engineers did lots of tinkering with the ramp profile against which the sliders push and the face angle which grabs the belt between the sheaves for forward motion.


If that is so, then it may be the 'odd' shape of the Dr Pulley variator Sliders which effectively alter the profile angle(s) of both the ramp plate as well as variator's roller tracks and seem to deliver the significant difference in performance over variator Roller weights.

Maybe that 'odd' shape Slider weight serves to infinitely (non-linearly) alter the ramp profile, as the the Slider's rounded as well as angled faces both come into play as the weight advances up the ramp to change ratios.

Sheesh, talk about a lot of out-of-the-box ramp profile engineering...

Tim
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