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 Silverwing vs Burgman ??

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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:04 pm

Had a nice visit with a Burgman rider last eve. He extolled all the virtue's of the Suzuki, and I listened intently. Great looking bike!
So......why have we chosen the Honda over the Suzuki.......or vice versa to the Burgman pilots. Thanks for your post!......Jeff.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:19 pm

Everyone has their reasons for one over the other.
I thought, based on watching both forums, that Honda was more reliable.
And as you know from the Parts & Accessories section both here and on the other board, the Silverwing appears to lend itself more to customization.
The seat height appears to be slightly lower on the Swing, better for short people like me (5'6). And I had (closed due to the economy) a Honda Dealer 2 miles from my house, so I could drop off the bike for upgrades, walk home, and walk back when it was done.

Dan
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:31 pm

"I thought, based on watching both forums, that Honda was more reliable."

Me, too.
I didn't want all the gearbox gadgetry and although an electric screen and mirrors are very useful they're something else to go wrong.
The Silverwing is a bit lighter and cheaper to buy.

The Burgers are lovely bikes, though.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:00 pm

Just because I was curius, I went over to the Burgman Forum and was reading a topic of Burgman vers. Silverwing and it really got weird. They started talking about, how the frame on the Honda Silverwing was rusting out in short order. Strange if you ask me.

I closed the thread and just shook my head.
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tankyuong
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:04 pm

IMO the silverwings body style is more sleek and of course more reliable
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:36 pm

I keep forgetting to mention this.......but I've had my Silverwing since July of last year, and I'm on my third frame.......they rust out in less than 3 months, every one. If I would only have gotten that Burgman...... Jeff.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:16 pm

Perhaps if you didn't store your bike in salt water, that wouldn't happen?

Another good reason to get a Silverwing over a Burgman....


Dennis B doesn't make cool accesories for the Burgman.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanks for mentioning Dennis B's handiwork. The only thing holding frame #4 together is The fine work that DB did on my trailer hitch. In fact, I think Honda released a memo recommending Dennis's hitch to prolong the life of the frame. I heard the "FRF"...Frame Rust Fiasco....was the demise of the Miami Fl Honda dealer too.
I think MikeO said it best.......With" Suzuki's gearbox gadgetry, and electric screen and mirrors", what were we thinking buying Sochiro Honda's own Edsel. Jeff.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:41 pm

RUST!!! not on my Honda Silverwing Frame! Honda has been making Scooters and Motorcycles for a few years now and they have the art of frame coating down to a....well an art.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:57 pm

Besides the stop bolt in the burgman that shears once in a while and trashes the transmission.. The burgman reminds me of that Queen in Alice in wonderland , Wide backside. Less storage, eedon't like the dash at all .

I Have worked on a few, and rode afterward...give me my Swing.

I don't even like riding behind one, seriously!

at least the Swing looks good as I pass them. hahahahaha

MaxB (who has a hot rodded Swing)
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Yeah, my frame keeps rusting out too.

All I do is buy some plumbing pipe at Lowe's and weld in new pieces wherever it is needed. lol!

Maybe some of the Burgmen folks should read some of the posts here. They would find that nobody has ever reported any rusting issues.

Why I got a Swing instead of a Burgman:
Usually can't beat the reliability.
Really did not like the amount of engine braking on the B650.
Left grip was a clusterf**k of buttons.
Burgman felt rather heavy at the time. I could probably handle it fine now.
Liked the idea of being able to modify the variator on the Silverwing.
But most of all, I got a very good buy on a used Swing - $3600 for a one owner '03 with 3800 miles on it, with GIVI screen, GIVI 46l box, Kuryaken grips, shop manual. I couldn't find as nice a B400 at the time for that price, let alone a B650.

Not to say that I would not own a Burgman in the future. But I don't intend to get rid of the Silverwing anytime soon.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:31 pm

Wonder what the history is behind the Burgman? Who was it named after? How wide was his/her backside? How did he/she combat the dreaded "Scooter Frame Rust Dilemma"? Why did the Architectural firm of "3yr olds with crayons", get the job of designing the dash? Jeff.
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tankyuong
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:47 pm

I have rust on mine but its on the base of my kickstand, does that count?
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:25 pm

If your kickstand hasn't already disintegrated while you were typing your post, you should immediately deploy to the garage. According to Honda memo #454, failure to place cinder blocks under what used to be your frame, could lead to CFC.....[cylinder/floor contact]. Honda part # 321-234-55449980, chain hoist will be required to install new frame. Carry on......Jeff.
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pja
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:52 pm

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
...why have we chosen the Honda over the Suzuki...

For me is really simple!

I just don't like Suzukis!

I have owned Hondas (4), Yamaha (2), Kawasaki (1) and Vespa (1) but NEVER a Suzuki. IMHO they are just not up to the same standards as the other Japanese makers.

Given there does not seem to be a new 600 'Swing in Honda's future I will probably buy a Yamaha or Piaggio next time around or perhaps a Kawasaki Vulcan VN900 (but where would I put my phone, sun glasses, garage door opener, etc. etc.?).

Regards,
Peter

PS: Besides not liking Suzukis, I think the Burgman is just plain ugly and has too much "bloat-ware". Other than that, it's probably not a bad bike
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:22 am

Several of my X9er friends have bought Burgers; most of them have had problems with the 'paint' on the wheels flaking off - one is on his third set and others have had them powder-coated.

I think 'Burgman' is a contraction and corruption of 'Burger Van', a vehicle with no windows used for hauling lumps of meat!
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tavetti53
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:10 am

In my Silverwing vs Burgman decision...very easy...legroom...I have a 38" inseam and with the Burgman, my shins were touching the dashboard, with the Silverwing, I have at least a finger's width of room...and on the X9, I looked like a Shriner on a mini bike!

Dave
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:13 am

I'm with Peter (pja) on this topic. I never even considered the Suzuki Burgman as an option. I actually don't think I've ever ridden a Suzuki.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:50 am

But Peter.......I have had several Suzuki's and must admit my fondness for two. One was a 63,fiesty, athletic, salt and pepper brunette, that stole my heart and.........wait....that was a Suzy. The other two Suzuki's that I admire are #1, my former 82 "Hans Muth" Katana. First production bike with rear sets and clip ons, and penned by the "Wizard of Weird". Hmmmm, a pattern emerges. #2, My Kayak hauler, 3 cylinder, 50 mpg, Geo Metro. Drive train by Suzuki. Love this car....tho I dont think Suzy was to proud to be seen in it.......but it certainly hauled her Manitou proudly!
Ya know, the back end of that Metro does sort of resemble the Queens backside from Alice in Wonderland, and.........a Burgman.......There, I've said it.
Probably shouldn't have.........but Happy Father's Day. Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:26 am

Jeff,

You don't by any chance have a buddy named "Guildenstern", do you?
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:10 am

Dan, in my lifetime, only two people have asked me that question....an exchange teacher from Merry Old England, Romey Bullimore, and yourself. The reference to " Rosenkranz and Guildenstern are dead, has reminded me to spray some WD40 on my SW's remaining good welds, to postpone it's certain demise......oops.......to late.
Mike and Dave....Shriners in Burger Vans and on mini bikes hauling " Lumps of meat"....... now that's a parade I would attend. However, if they were throwing any treats to the crowd..I..I.... sure, I'd pick one up,and graciosly hand it to the Burgman rider next to me........Jeff.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:28 am

"It's a typical American phenomenon where all the members have a fine old time. It's the 43rd annual convention of the grand mystic loyal order of the nobles of the ali baba temple of the shrine." ----Ray Stevens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO_tXzeiZAQ&feature=related

Next time try rustoleum instead of WD-40


Last edited by dspevack on Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:36 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:43 am

My apologies, if I may have offended any Shriners, who are a good and generous people. My philosophy of Beer and Buddhism prohibits me from making light of anyone.........especially if they wear movie popcorn shaped hats with tassles while driving go carts in circles......or Burgman riders. Jeff.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:58 am

"Philosophy of Beer and Buddhism prohibits me." Sign me up.....Party Time!
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:49 am

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
My philosophy of Beer and Buddhism prohibits me from making light of anyone

Does it also prohibit you from light beer?
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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:57 am

I looked at the Burgman while looking at the SWing too but just decided on the SWing. I started with the Reflex, then the Majesty, and would go to cycle shops all the time just to look and sit on bikes. For some reason the SWing just always attracted my attention more. In our riding club there are many more B650's than SWings but I'm very, very happy with the SWing. If they don't come out with a new SWing model one day I may venture over to the B650, just to have something different. But the only bike now that gets my interest is the Honda NT700V.

But I don't plan to get anything for quite awhile. I am very happy with the SWing and always enjoy riding it. This is the first bike where I don't think about my "next bike", if that makes sense. It seems when I had a bike I was always thinking of my next one, but with this I don't at all. Hopefully they willl come out with another SWing one day just to get something with newer technology but I really don't want the Burgman set up with gears, or whatever you want to call it.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:50 pm

JeffR wrote:
Hopefully they willl come out with another SWing one day just to get something with newer technology but I really don't want the Burgman set up with gears, or whatever you want to call it.

E-04 with shaft drive ... I would.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:41 pm

Bill,

I would buy that one tomorrow if it came out. I wonder why they never came out with it. Looks like a great bike.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:52 pm

Hi Jeff,

What would be interesting would be to take a trip to Honda, Japan, and go through their RD lad and check out all the neet stuff that never got to the production line. O'well maybe some day. Sure would be fun!
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:16 pm

Hi Dennis, I dont mean to interject, as I know your post is for JeffR, but your point is so thought provoking. From the lowly 50 million sold Honda Cub, to Asimo, the more human than my cousin Carl , Robot........ Just think of all the stuff in between......... " Beer and Buddhism.....Drink up and see the Light." Jeff.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:32 pm

Hey Dennis B. You are about to hit the 1,000th post!!!!. Congrats. I appreciate your talent and good nature. I I think that I can speak for all of us when I say........... So when the #@*! are you inviting us over for the barbecue, and beer bash, at you and Shania's lake front estates???? Jeff
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:41 pm

Yeah know, I just wish I had a big, beautful cabin at Huntington Lake. I would have you all over for a good time fishing, sailing, watersking, and riding some of the greatest roads on this planet.
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Dale M
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PostSubject: Silverwing vs Burgman   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:08 pm

I've owned a Burgman 650 and now own a Silverwing. Really not much difference, both well made machines. The Burgman might tour better as its a little heavier. Notice they have 2 disc brakes up front. The Silverwing reviews give this scooter the edge for around town riding, short commuting and easy handling around parking lots. Agree with all of that.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:16 pm

So........Kim's invited.....but your not so sure about Dale........Let's see, The UPS guy would usually get here about 3:00.......fridge is almost out of Brewsky's....
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:32 pm

OOPS.......Hi DaleM. My comment was aimed at Moderator Dale, and my attempt to make him feel bad enough to send a case of O'douls to DennisB.
S.E. Iowa???? The finest people in the world come from towns like Keokuk, Ft Madison, Burlington etc.....Nothing like the Hamilton to Nauvoo road, with supper at the Hotel Nauvoo. Jeff.
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Dale M
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PostSubject: Silverwing vs Burgman   Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:04 pm

You are right Jeff... both sides of the river are a scenic ride especially in the fall and Hotel Nauvoo still has great food. If I could just leave those cinnamon rolls alone. Stay off these roads about dusk though. The Iowa side has a lot of deer.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:14 pm

Hi Dale. Thanks for the reply. I've left you a welcome on the "Introductions" page also. I suppose that the Chuckwagon is no more..... but I will look forward to picking up the tab for Apple Pie and Ice Cream somewhere in the Keokuk area sometime soon. Scoops in Warsaw is excellent, and Jen is a wonderful host.
You know....I have two kayaks.....Jen wants to go some Monday.......Maybe you want to get your feet wet??? Take care......Jeff.
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dickie
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:00 pm

Dale M, your comments on the Burgy and Swing are right on. Our riding partners have a B650 and it is indeed a more plusher ride, at least to Patty and I. The Swing seems more nimble around town. We have swapped off with them a few times is where my observation is coming from. Most of our riding is two up. They are both great machines. Dick
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:42 pm

I'll join in methinks.

Suzuki and rusty frames to me go hand in fist. My Burgman frame rusted in months and after a year I had to stip all the tupperware off and treat the frame. Fortunately I heard tell of a way of keeping the rust at bay from an old and bold engineer. Coat the frame with linseed oil and I have to say it did the trick. That said I don't believe the frame shoul have deteriorated to that extent in that period of time.

Yes I do live in a salt laden environment surround 330 degrees by sea water. But my car and bikes have to also.

Now my Silver Wing is showing no sign of corrosion.

Back on topic!!! I chose the 'Wing' after a great deal of soul searching. What do I want? What do I want to use it for? compared servicing blah blah blah!

In the end the 'Wing' came out on top. I did have resevations for a month or two, had I made the right move!

Of course I did the Silver Wing is an exceptional machine. Even the servicing is cheaper than my Burgman. And I mean a lot cheaper.

Honda most definately has the edge in every department. In my most humble of opinions of course!!!!!!!
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:33 pm

Does size matter???? While visiting with the Burgman rider, I noticed the actual physical size of the " Burger ". Thanks MikeO for the nickname. Although I've owned larger displacement bikes, I could honestly say that I've never owned anything that seemed as large as my Silverwing. But.... the Burg'ster made my SW seem almost svelte. Then..... last week, had the honor of parking next to a 71 R75 BMW. From inside the restaurant, the Beemer looked almost bicycle like, next to my Mr. Creosote Honda. Tonight.......my SW is a 250 GP Racer again. Parking lot at Home Depot, I'm parking next to that.........RUNE.......Holy Buckets....it's a 3 wheel Rune! I stepped it off....it was 32 feet between his rear tires! Well......almost.
I rode home thinking I was Nicky Hayden, on my 200lb, 200 hp, TINY, Honda Superbike.[scooter]. Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:36 pm

I rode a Burgman 650 on a test ride sometime before I bought my SW. The performance of the 650 was good but I didn't like the more complex drive system. I did like the Burgman 400 but not the one lunger power plant with it's more noticeable vibes. I bought my 2004 SW used at a price that was about 1/3 the price of a new B650 or 2/3 the price of a similar age and condition used B650. I also tend to lean toward Honda because of the many bikes I've owned I've never had a bad Honda. My '93 Goldwing had 140,000 miles on it when I recently bought a used '2001 1800cc 'Wing. The SW makes a great stable mate for the big wing. The SW is extremely handy for in town errands while the big wing is for more serious trips. I wouldn't hesitate to take the SW on long trips if I didn't have the GW but if you have one there just isn't anything on two wheels that can match it for long road trips.
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vito
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:03 am

For me it was the familiarity and trust in the Honda name. I have owned bikes of several Japanese brands and years ago decided to stick with Honda. Plus I just don't like the looks of the Burgman. I considered the yamaha T-max but didn't want the smaller displacement engine. Now if only Honda would upgrade the SW by increasing the engine size, using larger wheels, improve the seat comfort, add cruise control, make a better windscreen, add a built in rider's backrest, it would become the all around perfect ride.
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joncallihan
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:51 am

Vito,
You just described a Gold Wing.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:40 pm

Waspie wrote:
Coat the frame with linseed oil and I have to say it did the trick.

There were a couple of UK SWing wheels that were pitted and need to coated/treated ... would the linseed oil prevented the wheel pitting.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:57 pm

honda_silver wrote:
Waspie wrote:
Coat the frame with linseed oil and I have to say it did the trick.

There were a couple of UK SWing wheels that were pitted and need to coated/treated ... would the linseed oil prevented the wheel pitting.

I have no idea.

The frame being of a steel construction and the wheels being an alloy of some description I really have no idea.

I have noticed light pitting on the wheels in the 8 months of my Wing ownership. (Frome new). Something I am currently treating with FS365. I may try the linseed oil. It worked on one metal!!

I do expect corrosion due to my living surrounded by a corrosive salt water environment and duly monitor and treat as neccessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:15 am

Being an "old time" wood worker, I would not use Linseed oil on metal. (my opinion). It is hygroscopic, (it draws moisture). it also is pourous. If you do and again I caution against it, use boiled Linseed oil. This might be OK for wooden boats but not for a scooter. We used to use boiled Linseed oil on our plows in the off season to prevent rusting. Grandpa was adamant. That was in the 50's. It was my job as a kid.
I would look into auto body paints.

I would look into powder coating the rims. A lot of local places do this and relatively cheap. An alternative is clear coating the rims with a good urethane 2 part paint. (auto body shop) .

Like it was mentioned in one book on Shaker furniture, " Being the simple thrifty people they are, they would have used newer finishes on their products."

Sometimes newer is better.

That's my take on it.

MaxB (who does Shaker and Crafts style furniture with the old finishes)
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:09 am




You mean you live near here, Waspie? That stuff will corrode/erode anything
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:01 pm

KurtPerthWA wrote:



You mean you live near here, Waspie? That stuff will corrode/erode anything

I live about a mile away!!! That there is 'Pulpit Rock'.

I have to say though it ain't like that all the time. (Most of the time but not all ).

So yes, salt water corrosion is something I do take seriously!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:06 pm

Back on the linseed oil thing. Hear what your saying and sort of agree, all I can say it worked for me.

In the navy we used to use boiled linseed oil on steel cables. (The cables would be coated or if small enough immersed in the oil). One, to help preserve them and secondly it would soak onto the rope inside the steel cable to preserve its life.

I may try boiling the linseed oil next time I need to apply it. (Hopefully it won't be needed on the Honda).
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing vs Burgman ??   Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:46 pm

Think of the neighbours, Waspie, think of the neighbours!
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