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 Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)

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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:09 am

Hello everyone,

Here is the promised review of the power commander (PC), which I first posted a few months ago on different forums. Happy reading!

I had no difficulty fitting it thanks to the detailed instructions and photos that came with it. My S’Wing back then was still stock apart from the J Costa variator and hadn’t had any modifications to the fuel system, so I’d asked the supplier to pre-load the stock map, so once I’d fitted the commander, it would be ready to run…… The kit that arrived was for the 2004 to 2006 American variant an FSC 600, and not the 2003 FJS 600 which I have….. However I was assured by the supplier that it would fit… It did! (apparently the S'wing is essentially the same which ever country you buy it in aprt from some of the electrics, the HISS 2 immobilser, and cigarette lighter sockets)

The PC consists of a black box with an approx foot long wire culminating in a small wiring harness comprising in 4 plugs, one wire tap, and an earthing strap. To fit you needed to open the Swing’s seat right up to the vertical, or remove it. Then remove the plastic engine cover/ tool tray underneath to reveal the two injector housings and their plugs. The scoot’s injector plugs had to be unplugged from the scoot and instead plugged into the matching connecters from the PC. Two other connectors from the PC then plug into the now vacated injector plugs on the scoot. Then the wire tap is “tapped” onto the conveniently nearby located throttle position sensor wire. All the wires were colour coded, and the injector plugs can only fit one way, so it was easy to do. Finally I needed to connect the earthing strap to a bolt on the fuel rail mounting bracket. Whole job took about 20 minutes. I could have done it in less, but wanted to make sure I got it right, and had a little difficulty at first in identifying the right wire for the throttle position sensor, but this was because it was a bit mucky and difficult to tell the colours, so I fixed that eventually with a kitchen wipe. (once I found one!) Then I held my breath, switched on the ignition, pulled in the combined brake lever and thumbed the starter…… My S’wing purred into life…music to my ears! Later after replacing the plastic engine cover/engine tray, the main PC wire fits through a wee cutaway gap on the left side of the cover, and the PC black box sits nicely in the tool tray. I just put my tool kit back in its usual place on top of the PC, there was still plenty of room for it.

The difference was immediate and noticeable with the engine running and the scoot still in the garage on the centre stand! Much, much smoother, and with the throttle response much quicker. This was confirmed when actually riding the scoot, and again was immediately apparent.

I didn't get the scoot dyno tuned until a few months later after having a sporty exhaust muffler (scorpion titanium) fitted. However, unless you really want that extra few bhp and the more rorty exhaust sound, you probably don't need it. I was well impressed with the scoot with just the stock engine map, and exhaust. Anyway notwithstanding that means that my impressions of the power commander are ostensibly subjective and largely down to my “gut feeling.” However what is definite, is the change to my fuel consumption, which is now I am happy to say, much improved! Having ridden about 140 miles since fitting the commander, in varied conditions and going quite quick, using the performance, in town , on open roads, cruising (70-90mph) and even going up to an indicated 110mph for a short period, my average mpg appears to have improved by about 5 to 6 mpg. Now bearing in mind that my S’wing has a J Costa variator fitted, my fuel economy riding the scoot in varied conditions as described above, would usually be in the region of about 42, maybe 43 mpg. However, since the power commander it has gone up to 48.7 mpg! That is actually a little better than I was getting when I first got the S’wing with a stock variator…. Back then I managed about 45-46mpg…. Anyway, I am well pleased!

As to how the scoot now feels to ride, well it is much smoother, and the throttle response is much improved. Acceleration at low speeds seems better, though seemingly not because of any extra power that now might be there, but rather more because of the improved throttle response. Just a wee tweak, and the scoot just surges away, with seemingly little effort. However, if you really want to hustle, then give the throttle a big handful, and you get that surge in an instant, very swiftly followed by that J costa “kick.” It feels good! However from about 50mph, accelerating hard I initially felt disappointed. The engine seems to be so much smoother that it doesn’t feel that it is working hard enough…? The revs surge up there much quicker than before, but it all feels too easy….. It’s not until the hard pressed transmission catches up that you realize that you are actually both going faster and accelerating quicker than you think. Once I figured this out it eventually became clear that the scoot does seem to accelerate a little better more or less right through the rev range. This took a bit of getting used too, along with not having to open the throttle as far or as quickly as I used to, to get the same performance. It was a little weird at first, and felt initially that some of the snarl you get when the engine really gets the bit between its teeth, was replaced by more of a purr…. It’s not bad though, just different, and again I figure it’s a subjective kind of thing. There is however a bit of a downside to this….. I now find it much more difficult to cruise in the 30-40mph range needed around town. I’ve found that to stay at this speed takes a conscious effort…. As soon as you relax the speed creeps up toward 50-55mph, and it seems you have done nothing for this to happen, other than relax!! However, above this speed and the Scoot just purrs along, all the way until you run out of steam which I think will be in the region of an indicated 110-115mph, though I’ve yet to ride at such a high speed for any long length of time. However the S’wing seems quite chilled and unhassled up to about 95mph, after which the final 15 to 20 indicated mph is a little more slow in coming.

So there it is. Am I glad I paid the £235.00 for the power commander? You bet! It has definitely improved the performance and the economy, whilst making the scoot seem much calmer and smoother to ride. I found that because the engine is now so much sweeter and smoother that you tend to end up going a bit faster than you think you are. The power commander itself is of the type that you can further adjust manually by using buttons mounted on it to increase or reduce the fuel mixture where you desire within the rev range. Or you can hook up a computer via a usb port and using the software that came with it, you can tweak the fuel mixture that way. Or you can download a different map from Dynojet and upload it to your scoot. However, after a long chat with the supplier, he said not to bother as you need the scoot to be hooked up to a dynamometer to be able to first map the actual fuel curve and then tweak it. For a stock bike or scoot, just stick with the stock map. However he added that it would be worth getting the scoot “dynoed” if I was to ever fit a sporty high flow exhaust and without the stock exhaust (including the CAT). He said that in theory the scoot should still retain the improved “economy”, but only if ridden as it was before. He added that in practice, once you realize that you have the extra power, you tend to use it, and therefore the economy will decrease a little. And so that’s that….

In case you are interested I bought the commander on E-bay (address below) after a long chat with some of the staff at PDM racing who were very helpful.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DYNOJET-POWER-COMMANDER-PC-III-USB-FOR-HONDA-NEW_W0QQitemZ260275387554QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260275387554&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://www.pdmracing.co.uk/contact.htm

Note that when I did eventually get the exhaust fitted, and the scoot dynoed, the performance and economy jumped yet again, though the increase was smaller and more subtle than the big difference noted after first fitting the PC with a stock map. It's worth pointing out here that the whole purpose of the PC is to be able to tailor your fuel mixture to precisely match the idiosyncracies of your individual machine, so essentially your machine remains in a constant high state of tune..... The dynoing can take up to two hours I believe, so isn't cheap, unless you get a good deal.... (I bought the exhaust partly on condition that the dealer dyno my scoot, that was after he'd already given me a discount on the exhaust! Very shrewd on his behalf, cos anything I need doing on my scoot or bike, I see him!) But once its done that improvement is gonna be there to stay. As by this time I was well into my mid life crisis, and lets see how much I can tweak my S'wing, I just went ahead and had it done.... And it's good.... bounce

On a final note, I should point out that without the louder free flowing exhaust, the PC makes the scoot so much smoother that it almost feels, well a bit dull, as if accelerating is just too easy. However with a noisier exhaust and a few wee backfires on the overrun, the fun quotient is well increased, and well worth the cost for added enjoyment factor. Twisted Evil

If you want further details about how the mods I've had fitted over the year all come together, I've just posted a "comprehensive review" of my S'wing on the forum here.


Happy riding!


Last edited by Bernardo on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added, final note about adding exhaust)
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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:22 pm

Some more notes on the Dyno......

"Dyno Tuning" Is performed by a Dynamometer, basically a rolling road onto which your bike is strapped, and exhaustively "ridden" through the entire rev range whilst a computer analyzes the exhaust gases. Using a computer linked to your engine management chip, the air fuel mixture is then tweaked to generate the best optimum setting at regular rpm intervals, (not sure exactly what but say every 200rpm or so). This information is recorded as a computer "map" which is applied to your engine management chip that controls your fuel injection. This is done permanently by means of a little black box called a "power commander" which is wired in to run in tandem with your existing engine management chip as described above..... In this way your bike is then maintained in a permanent state of good tune, which should have the effect on increasing power output, and torque whilst also improving fuel economy. Average about 10% improvement for a road bike. It also makes the engine run smoother. It's an American system, made by Dynojet but is widely available in the UK, and has a solid reputation for reliability. Although there are several other competitors, and indeed various bike manufacturers have thier own variants, the dyno power commander has the reputation as being one of the best and makes them for a huge range of bikes.

It does mean that your bike needs to have fuel injection, although there are also jetting kits for bikes with old fashioned carbs.

To make the most of it, most folk tend to fit a free flowing, and thus less restrictive exhaust. These exhausts also usually do not have a catalytic converter as this does sap some of the performance. Note that in UK anyway, at the moment there is no legal requirement to have a CAT on bikes, so the first thing a petrol head will do when he gets his bike is have it removed. As it is usually located in the exhaust silencer, simply changing the silencer usually does the job.

The power commander unit is about £200 to £250. Even fitting one without having the bike individually tuned will make a difference, as you can get generic "engine maps" for each specific bike model as stock, and for some bikes you can also get generic maps for alterations such as a standard type free flowing exhaust. However to get the bike properly tuned is a two to three hour job, so your cost there is simply labour.

On the later power commander units you can make your own coarse adjustments by buttons on the unit itself, and fine adjustments by connecting the power commander via a usb plug to a PC. (the software comes with the power commander unit) However unless you really know what you are doing, making these adjustments without the rolling road and gas analysers is probably a waste of time. On a final note though, you can create multiple maps, one for economy, one for cruising one for high speed, one for best torque etc, but again this is a bit academic unless you using it for a race track. I've seen a bike that had three power commander maps that the rider could choose from via a simple handlebar switch, one map for low down, one mid range, one high speed. He simply flicked the switch dependant upon which part of the race track he was at.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue May 19, 2009 2:48 pm

On Saturday I hope to do A Patriot Guard Salute to Veterans picnic on Saturday. Then I hope to visit Johnny Cheese Dyno Tuning Center ( http://www.johnnycheese.com/Home_Page.php ) afterward so he can look over the SWing so he can determine how much it will cost to get a custom map for my "stock setup" (K&N Airfilter).
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sat May 23, 2009 5:15 pm

honda_silver wrote:
Then I hope to visit Johnny Cheese Dyno Tuning Center ( http://www.johnnycheese.com/Home_Page.php ) afterward so he can look over the SWing so he can determine how much it will cost to get a custom map for my "stock setup" (K&N Airfilter).

I visited Johnny Cheese.

He checked the OEM muffler to see if the internal baffles would interfere with the sensor. He slid a piece of metal wire in without any problem ... which means he can properly test with OEM muffler cheers . He pointed out that since the two exhaust pipes combine into one pipe, he will not be able to test each cylinder individually for a custom map ... so he is is just going to create a single map.

He said this will be his first "scooter experiment". We then talked about which maps I have used.

I asked him how much it would be for a custom map ... he said since this was his first "scooter experiment" and he was not sure how much of an improvement he could find on top of the current map he said the price would be free. I said that would not be fair ... he said ok then I could donate $50.00.

So I have an appointment for June 6 at high noon ... it should be interesting. I will keep everyone posted.
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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Mon May 25, 2009 6:35 am

Hi,

Good luck at High Noon!

If you PM me, I will send you a copy of my map if you want to try it, which is quite a bit leaner than stock. I'm sure I also have the generic S'wing map somewhere and also a generic one for a S'wing with aftermarket exhaust. All the maps as I understand were made with the sensor in the silencer..... I don't think my Power commander (PC) has the facility to differentiate between cylinders, though I understand some of the latest models can, and some Harley PCs can also be used to tweak the timing aswell.... Great news if you have a Harley!

Have fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:08 pm

I previously read in the www.burgmanusa.com forum about someone smashing and hot wiring a Burgman 400, then I just read about a rash of thefts of the Burgman 400 in California.

I sent a request to the Power Commander support - "I have a Power Commander III USB. I was curious Power Commander has the ability to shut-off fuel to prevent starting ... like a kill switch for security protection."

They quickly responded with - "You could hook up a switch to the ground wire of the PC3 and if you turned the switch off so the ground was not a completed circuit, your injectors will never fire and bike would not be able to start. We don’t have anything built into the software or anything like that but you do make your own theft protection by adding a switch to the ground wire."

I thought others might be interested.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:36 pm

honda_silver wrote:
So I have an appointment for June 6 at high noon ... it should be interesting.

I went to Johnny Cheese Performance ( http://www.johnnycheese.com ) to get my custom mapping for MPG.

Johnny was able to increase both torque and power, I will attach the graph. Johnny said that the map I was using (European stock model) was still "fat" with a lot of room for adjustment. He said there is still more room with my map, I will ride and monitor.

After he modified the Power Commander map, I went for a test ride. I know the sound of my SWing and the remapped sound was clearer and crisper with immediate and stronger throttle kick.

Johnny said I can freely distribute the map, though every SWing could be different. If the SWing should ping or bog-down then you may need additional map adjustment.



Last edited by honda_silver on Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:17 pm

Glad to read that High Noon went well! I wonder what your MPG will be like? I look forward to seeing your graph...
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:19 pm

Bill,

I look forward too since I asked my wife to get me one for my birthday in July. We need to get you to England so you and Bernardo can do some racing. :m/c:
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Bill,

Thanks for posting the chart. It looks like you got almost 2.5 ft/lbs of torque and a bit more hp. I am going to get one for my birthday so thanks for posting this. After you get a couple of tanks of gas maybe you could also tell us if it improved the gas mileage from your 56-60 mpg. If I could get 55 mpg I would be happy as a lark. I don't seem to get as good of mileage as others. Thanks for posting this.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:55 pm

JeffR wrote:
Thanks for posting the chart. It looks like you got almost 2.5 ft/lbs of torque and a bit more hp. I am going to get one for my birthday so thanks for posting this.

Yes, Johnny did not get to finish all of the upper RPMs ... we ran out of time. I will try the current map for a while and if I see MPG improvement ... I will go back and have him work for faster MPH Cool

JeffR wrote:
After you get a couple of
tanks of gas maybe you could also tell us if it improved the gas
mileage from your 56-60 mpg.

I am thinking that I more conservative with the throttle, but it did not need much throttle to feel the lurch with the new mapping.

It would be great if someone else could repeat my results ... hopefully you are keeping very careful measurements and tracking of your MPGs.

JeffR wrote:
I don't seem to get as good of mileage as others. Thanks for
posting this.
I never used to get this much MPGs. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:06 pm

Bill,

I will start carrying a notepad in my bike for exact mileage. I go figure it out every tankful but I just don't record it but make mental notes of what I'm getting. So I will start being exact and also to document too. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:46 pm

Bill,

I was looking at your dyno numbers and it seems the Power Commander increases the h.p. and torque more than I thought it would. I know the first test was with the European map but the stock SWing usually dyno's at about 37 hp and 37-38 ft/lbs of torque. So it seems you got an increase of 3-4 h.p. and 5 ft/lbs of torque, and this is in addition to the very improved gas mileage. So I know I'm getting one now.

If you remember Bernardo's dyno with the J. Costa, Power Commander, and the performance muffler... he tested at about 45 hp and 49 ft/lbs of torque, which is really something. He got an increase of about 10-11 ft/lbs of torque which has to get his SWing going good. I may not replace the stock muffler until I need to but if I ever need to replace it I will be getting a performance muffler.

Do you also see any decrease in your rpms' at all? I was thinking that since you have more power you may not need as much throttle, which may reduce your rpm's a bit. But that is just my assumption, which isn't probably too accurate. Thanks for the time and effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:20 am

JeffR wrote:
I was looking at your dyno numbers and it seems the Power Commander increases the h.p. and torque more than I thought it would.

I know ... it was better than I would have thought. cheers I had to ask Johnny if the numbers were correct. Cool

JeffR wrote:
I know the first test was with the European map but the stock SWing usually dyno's at about 37 hp and 37-38 ft/lbs of torque.

You are correct the first test was with the European map.

JeffR wrote:
So it seems you got an increase of 3-4 h.p. and 5 ft/lbs of torque, and this is in addition to the very improved gas mileage.

I can feel the difference too.

The gas mileage improved from US stock map -> European stock map AND I am expecting even more improvement with the custom map ... time will tell.

JeffR wrote:
So I know I'm getting one now.

Just tell your wife it's my fault. Razz

JeffR wrote:
Do you also see any decrease in your rpms' at all?

I do not see a decrease at cruising RPMs, but I do not need as much throttle to accelerate up to speed.

I have noticed that the engine does not sound as loud at some of the speeds. Previously I could duck under the windshield to hear the engine ... I know it sounds strange but the other day I was traveling 60 MPH and I had to duck the lowest to hear the engine.

I have also noticed that the SWing rolls more (declerates slower) with the engine compression which is not a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:04 pm

[quote="honda_silver
I do not see a decrease at cruising RPMs, but I do not need as much throttle to accelerate up to speed.

Hi there... This was the same for me aswell... It seems you don't need to open the throttle as much to get the same effect as before....

I have noticed that the engine does not sound as loud at some of the speeds. Previously I could duck under the windshield to hear the engine ... I know it sounds strange but the other day I was traveling 60 MPH and I had to duck the lowest to hear the engine.

I found there was a definite feeling of the engine working less harder to achieve the same effect, and much smoother too.... If anything this made the S'wing feel less exciting if anything, and I found I had a tendency to go faster than normal. However this was just using the stock european map. When I had the scoot dyno tuned, I also had the new exhaust put on at the same time...... This completely seemed to change the nature of the S'wing, and though now for me anyway I had a tendency not just to go faster, but accelerate faster too..... Also the sound of the exhaust now seemed to match the efforts of the engine, and thus more exciting to ride. Warning though... With the extra performance there, I found I just went ahead and used it, whether I needed to or not..... It's only now about a year on ( and having bought a bike aswell) that I seem to be able to resist the urge to go faster....

I have also noticed that the SWing rolls more (declerates slower) with the engine compression which is not a problem.[/quote]

I've not noticed this mind. Engine braking remains as good as it always has been. On a final note having the hyperpro springs fitted seems to complement the extra perfromance quite well, and improves handling especially under braking, and or quick changes of direction...
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:04 pm

honda_silver wrote:


I have also noticed that the SWing rolls more (declerates slower) with the engine compression which is not a problem.

One of my few complaints about the S'Wing is when riding downgrade on a very steep road two-up, I do have to brake more than I would like (this is not a problem on normal mountain roads, nor is it a problem when riding solo - just when riding two-up on VERY steep roads).

From what you say, it seems a PC my exacerbate this problem???
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:00 am

Hello,

I found this PC at a very good price here in Romania, but it's for CBR 600 F4i.
I searched for specific SW Power Commander, but I can't see the connectors.
So, can anyone tell me if those connectors will fit the Silverwing?
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:28 pm

I don't recall the wire harness plug you are showing as familiar to the DynoJet Power Commander III I had on my previous Silverwing. AFAIK the PC III's for twin cylinder applications are pretty much the same. The main difference are the EFI connectors. One wire taps into to the Throttle Position Sensor wire, and another to frame ground, there may also be a 3rd connection. Then, of course, you'll need to reprogram the PC III to your needs via the buttons on the PC III.

If the EFI connectors on the CBR600 are not the same as the FSC/FJS600 connectors then you'll need to change those connectors. IIRC those are Sumitomo connectors. Here are two links to sources for Sumitomo connectors. Of course you'll need two male and two female connectors to make the adaption:
https://www.corsa-technic.com/category.php?category_id=125
And here:
http://www.cycleterminal.com/fuel-injector-connectors.html
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:04 am

Hi Tim,

I asked a mechanic who had a Silverwing and a power commander adapted to it and he said it was not worth it to buy that specific power commander. I'll stay tuned, maybe another deal will come up.


Thanks,
George
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gavinfdavies
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Well seeing as though this thread has been resurrected....

Quite interesting to see the promising results for this. I will see how I get on with my IAT sensor mods, but I may also look at getting a PCIII fitted later if I think the IAT trick isn't up to the task.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:50 am

With the power commander, tuned on a dynojet and the right exhaust, I picked up 5 hp at the rear wheel and smoother response throughout the powerband.
You can check the results in my album.
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gavinfdavies
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:17 pm

An interesting set of results there. I notice that a lot of the dyno speeds stop around 90-95mph. Was that because you hit the limiter, or because you got the dyno operator to back off? Mine ran to about 104mph, which tallies well to real life - it will shoot up to 100mph, then crawl towards 105mph, but the top speed is the same up hill or on the level. About 8,000rpm for me.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Its not about speed its the engine . Engine can only flow so much air. Intake, exhaust, cams.
Peak HP and torque will fall off somewhere then its down hill from there even though it will rev higher.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Also your top end results will always be better on a dyno if you push it, because you are not dealing with wind resistance. So it wasn't important to push it to max speed because it would have been an artificial number. Considering the engine itself (not at the rear wheel) is supposed to put out 50hp,
Nearly 43 out of 50 is pretty good. About 86%. And this without removing the baffles on the exhaust.
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gavinfdavies
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:40 pm

Sorry, to clarify, I was wondering about the dyno charts themselves. Most seem to stop dead at 95mph, whereas my dyno chart runs to 105mph. I was wondering why.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Dynojet Power Commander III (USB)   Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:04 pm

gavinfdavies wrote:
Sorry, to clarify, I was wondering about the dyno charts themselves. Most seem to stop dead at 95mph, whereas my dyno chart runs to 105mph. I was wondering why.

That's just where the operator stopped the test.
Once we know where peak performance is and see the numbers start to go downhill the rest is superfluous.(sp?)
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