I've seen some chat on other forums about using a motorcycle rear tire mounted on the front wheel of the Silverwing. The tire is the same size -or pretty close- as the original OEM tire.

So I'm curious as to what the advantage of doing this might be.

Evidently it is not using an automobile tire (ie. Sumitomo) to replace the front --it's using a m/c tire that was originally designed for rear wheel use on a m/c to replace the front tire on the Silverwing.

Maybe it's my naivete', but other than tire size I didn't know there was a difference between front & rear tire designs.

A rear tire on the front?...can anyone shed some light on this for me? What's the advantage / disadvantage?

I've had great success with the Sumitomo tire on my scoot, and it's now time for me to be keeping a close eye on the front tire.

Tim
'03 Silverwing, Cosmic Jumper
Philadelphia

You can go to any of the motorcycle tire makers and read about the way they are made.
Both the front and rear tires are directonal and should be mounted so the arrow is in the directon of rotation. The front tire is designed so it can take more force under braking. The rear tire is designed so it can take more force acceleration. I personally dont believe in using a tire designed for a car on a motorcycle. that has very different riding style.
Paul

I know my diablo front tire has a groove going through the center of the tire to cut through water that the back tire doesnt have. Im not sure if all tire sets are like this but for the ones that are it seems like youd lose traction in wet conditions even with the added contact surface. I would imagine it would be smoother and grippier in dry conditions but more risky in the rain.

honda_silver is correct I was first and there are still more that can be learned in this area of Darksiding. I now have around 17,000 miles on my SWing with the Sumitomo 165/70 r13 car tire, HS has total of 24,000 miles, 21,000 on the current tire, first tire he had was irreparably slashed by some road debrie.

I have also had the pleasure of owning a darksided Burgman 650 and got 20,000 miles on a Potenza 165/65 r14 car tire which I have now replaced with a Semperit 155/65 r14 so far it's a good tire, only 140 miles on it so far.

Estimations on the Sumitomo by me is that it should come out with 31,000 to 35,000 miles of road wear before needing to be replaced. The idea of using a rear MT is that the much deeper tread would allow it to give us twice or more the regular miles before needing replacement, plus the added safety factor of a thicker rubber on the road to resist a puncture.

Cheif Rider has also proven that a tire of the 175/70 r13 type could also be used safely on a SWing, so like I said, much left for us pioneer types to explore.

The MGS was the preferred tyre for the X9 but it appears it's no longer available in Europe.

I read with interest all the first-hand information about using car tyres on maxiscooters but have niggling doubts about doing it myself.
Since I've given up doing any mechanical work on my vehicles and leave it all to my dealers I tend to let them get on with it, thus having recourse to hold them responsible if things go wrong - not that I believe in suing everyone right, left and centre for human error - and trust that they will do what's best.

So in going to the 'Double Darkside' front tire is the idea that you are changing to a Radial tire, as the the Sumitomo is for the rear. Or is it that you keep the Bias ply tire on the front, but 'reverse" the rotation mounting for better water dispersal?

Tim

I would like to bring this thread back for the purpose of learning more from Honda_silver, about his experiences in "double darksiding".

I too would love to know your experience with the double darkside, Bill! You put a lot of miles on your Silver Wing so I'm interesting in hearing what you have to say about the differences in handling.

Bill (Honda Silver),

Last October you posted that you had put a Michelin Gold tire on the front of your SW. And IIRC that tire was originally intended as a rear tire for some other type of motorcycle --and you had intentionally mounted the tire backwards.

Can you please give us an update on the performance, handling, and tread wear of your SW with that tire. Also, is that tire a radial or bias ply tire?

I'll be in the market for a new front tire soon and would sure like to go with the highest aspect ratio tire available --not only to increase the life of the tire, but to put more rubber between the pot holes & the wheel rim, and to raise the height of the front of the scoot too. A /90-14 would be ideal.

Tim

I'd be interested in that info for our UltraWing trike riders as well.

Bob Witte
http:/www.TheTrinityTrike.com

Merged topics as they were duplicates and referrenced each other, this will make it easier to find the info.

Tim,

Conjecture: I wonder if a 160/60-14 might do a little better more width to work with ... ... here is the tire
math ( http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos
)

120/80-14
Sidewall Height: 3.78
Section Width: 4.72
Overall Diameter: 21.56
Circumference: 67.73
Revs per mile: 935.48

160/60-14 rear tire
Sidewall Height: 3.78
Section Width: 6.3
Overall Diameter: 21.56
Circumference: 67.73
Revs per mile: 935.48

Difference
Sidewall Height: 0.00
Section Width: 1.58
Overall Diameter: 0.00
Circumference: 0.00
Revs per mile: 0.00

Will have to check the different brands.

Car tire on front or rear really stupid idea

Car rims and bike rims beads are different.

Handling----SilverWing with car tire is not going to handle better....in daily or emergency situations.

There is more to scooter/motorcyle tires than how long they can last.


From my professional point of view----unsafe.


John Grinsel BSc Safety

From my understanding of motorcycle tires versus automotive tires, the difference is compound. The softer compounds allow for better traction although they don't last as long.
This comes in to play with braking. The reason a motorcycle stops faster than a car is the adhesion factor of the tire compound. (not weight as is usually suspected. Galileo proved it.)
Going "dark side" for longevity has a trade off. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The trade is adhesion. That usually means emergency stops are affected.

There is an article by James R Davis about tire longevity on the motorcycle safety site. http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=085&Set=&SearchTerms=car%20tires

I'm not trying to judge anyone or say their choice is right or wrong, just that it is a choice and best to make an informed choice.

There are differences in the design of motorcycle and car tires. Originally all motorcycles used basically the same tires as autos. My 49 Cushman scooter used 4.80 by 8.00 boat trailer tires. There's no doubt that a motorcycle/scooter can run on car tires. I've ridden a GW with a CT on the rear and wasn't particularly impressed, I know I could outrun that bike with my GW on bike tires in the twisties it just didn't handle as well to me. Hands off tracking with that CT wasn't as good as it is on my bike with motorcycle tires. I don't think motorcycle tires were designed just to sell a shorter life tire to make more money for the manufacturer. The only benefit I can see to a CT is longer tire life. To me that's not worth losing the edge in handling. I like to carve the curves and want the best tire for that which is a motorcycle tire. I'm willing buy a new tire more often for the best all 'round performance. BTW - hydroplaning is rare with a two wheel vehicle because of the tire's rounded cross section, auto tires rely on tread design to push away water but I'd bet it's easier to hydroplane a CT on a lightweight scooter than with a bike tire.

There are many opinions on the subject. Since 1966 I have run car tires on the rear of most of my bikes. If you have not tried it (so called dark side) you have no basis for a opinion.

Anyone can express an opinion since an opinion can be based on both emotion and interpretation of facts.
To make a judgement based on emotion is not generally very sensible, though.

It is my opinion that using car tyres on a motorcycle is not sensible but I cannot make a judgement since I haven't ever fitted car tyres to my scooters.

Because of a front end wobble on my wife's recently converted Yelvington trike,I have been doing some research and I have ordered a Michelin Gold Standard rear tire in size 140/70-14. I will have it mounted and balanced in the "reverse" mode similar to the Michelin Pilot Activ that I have on my Goldwing trike. It should arrive in a few days and I will keep everyone abreast of the situation. Apparently, the Gold Standard has been replaced by the City Grip model, but I liked the look of the Gold Standard tread pattern better and found some on Ebay for a good price, $50.00 including shipping. Now the wait begins. Thanks to all for your advice. So I guess we will be "double dark" also!

Rob


__________________

Be waiting for your results with great interest. Thanks IrishRob! Also, what rear tires did you put on your Yelvington Kit?

If I understand this right---Trike, right? Wobble probably related to trail, side car outfits do it too------first trail problem needs to be addressed---different triple trees should do it----trike maker should supply....but trikes are built to no safety standard or performance standard in US. Then car tire on front ok...........BUT car tire beads and motorcycle rims don't mix well-----so car wheel /rim needs to be adapted-----European sidecars outfits do use car tire----but special wheels for job! See EML. On trail, HD trikes have different trail than solo bikes.

Scary thing about current trikes----usually appeal to the unskilled and in this case much more dangerous than solo scooter. Think tip over. Sidecar outfit in skilled hands probably safer (I rode them for 40 years) in unskilled hands, accident waiting to happen---trikes, had 2 Messerschitt cars, 3 wheel pushers that could get you in real trouble as inside wheel rose and you didn't know what you were doing.

Notice----magazines never run performance tests on trikes? Truth gets out they would have loss of ads.

Then......steering damper needs to be addressed. Then once bike front set up for trike and car tire....won't work safely was solo.

As Honds Silver has said, the rear trike portion has 175/65-14 Falken 60,000 mile radials, obviously on car wheels. The Michelin Gold Standard is a rear scooter tire replacing the original front hoop... as for trikes being inherently unsafe, I don't know about the UK, but here in the US there are several manufacturers that make conversion kits from scooter size units all the way up to Honda Goldwings and big Harleys, actually H-D makes there own trike now also. Many trikes kits have been reviewed and tested and the results have been published in any number of motorcycle periodicals. In fact the monthly Goldwing magazine has recently added a special section devoted to trikes and triking.

After riding motorcycles of various sizes since 1966, I went with a Goldwing trike about 5 years ago. Having bad knees and a shoulder replacement took me off two wheels and I haven't looked back. My wife loves my trike but she has difficulty with shifting so I went with a trike kit for the automatic Silverwing so she could enjoy driving herself when we don't go out two-up.

I will try to keep the information coming once I get the semi-darkside rear scooter tire installed.

Rob

Rob, PM sent.