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2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeby The Bern Today at 7:20 am

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» EXTREME CVT TUNING
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Susie Q600
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PostSubject: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25, 2019 5:52 pm

I would like a recommendation on variator weights and belts
replacement on this 2006 with 8000 Miles I just picked up yesterday I called myself looking on the form but am I not able to find what I'm looking for it's probably just me however I would like the input of interested members that can put me on what works best for the Silverwing I've already ordered my variator removal tool getting ready to start working on her
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Faston Bulbous
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25, 2019 7:48 pm

8000 miles? Your belt isn’t worn out, neither is your variator weights
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25, 2019 8:59 pm

I would recommend Dr Pulley 24g sliders with the four sliding pieces. The sliders are alot better than the rollers. At 60 mph, my rpm is around 4500-4700. A drop in rpm of about 500. Saves gas and gives you a smoother acceleration. The added benefit is a faster acceleration under full throttle. Remember SLIDERS and NOT ROLLERS. That is my recommendation.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25, 2019 9:08 pm

I'd recommend 26G weight Dr. Pulley sliders better acceleration and lower engine speeds. Rollers work well too... Belt is old just replace it and don't worry about it for many years. Honda belt is fine $110 or so on line.

Search on site works great, box above latest topics. Search there much info.

Enjoy new ride. SW is a great bike.
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Susie Q600
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25, 2019 11:19 pm

Faston Bulbous, Easy Rider,Mech 1 TWA,.
I'd like to thank each of you for taking time out of your day to help me out I appreciate it very much.It has given me terminology, as well as names of parts,to help me get up to speed.
Tks again
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 26, 2019 5:51 am

Based on near 100,000 miles with 2 new SilverWings….and not walking, I would replace drive belt with Honda OEM and change no rollers/sliders. Stock is just fine---Honda put a lot of time into the design 20-25 years ago. SilverWing is a scooter and ridden so, a good one, but a little heavy.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 26, 2019 8:19 am

At 8000, I agree with John. Replace the belt with Honda unit and leave rollers alone. I replaced my rollers at 14K and they were like new. Installed DR sliders and they work fine BUT not a big difference over OEM. Being double in price (DR sliders) I will go back to Honda rollers if I ever need to replace them. Just my two cents.
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Susie Q600
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 26, 2019 10:13 am

J. Grinzel, Ghm PM. Tk!!
Yea I found out being 14 yo shes a low mileage 8,000 miles however last 2 owners bought new, an sold to my guy I bought fron.
Original belt, so belt low mileage however 14 years old. Lol. Zo I'll order one
I'm seen around $109.00 giv take on Honda OEM belt, sound bought rite yo yall ??
I'm ok with OEM parts when there are good reviews,..
Tks for roller advice.
Have that variator puller on order from Amazon so I'm going to pull the variatoetr when I replace the belt clean all the way around and get a eyeball look at the rollers and just continue to use those till approximately 14000 miles have me a good service manual I purchased on eBay on the way so looks like she's going to be a good one so far and I'll the updating is I do different things and try to post videos if possible as well as what I'm doing on the bike the more I'm around at the more I like it
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Susie Q600
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 26, 2019 10:15 am

I've always been of the Mind myself that when I purchase a car or a motorcycle lawn mower what have you I don't make any changes I keep it the way the manufacturer built it I don't modify don't customize I don't try to get a little bit better performance and I don't think there's anything wrong with anybody that loves doing that cuz nobody loves Machinery more than I do I just figure there's a lot of money went into developing what I just purchased and I think that probably usually know the best so always try to go back with what is stock what the engineers especially motorcycles with these Engineers decided is the best so the new right there's my two cents
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 26, 2019 10:33 pm

When I bought my 08 SWing from my sister in FL it had been sitting under a tarp for two years. I trailered it back to MN and ordered tires, a belt, 26 gram sliders and battery for it right away. The belt looked great with no signs of rot or wear but I felt it was better to be safe than sorry. So, while waiting for the parts to come I changed the oil and filter and air filter and some other TLC. Now I've had it triked and have no regrets.
The battery I have in it now is a Battery Tender Lithium Ion battery. I've had it in for 3 or 4 years now, I'm OLD so the memory isn't all that great anymore. But the battery has never failed me and it has plenty of power to start the SWing.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 27, 2019 8:35 am

Susie Q600 wrote:
I've always been of the Mind myself that when I purchase a car or a motorcycle lawn mower what have you I don't make any changes I keep it the way the manufacturer built it I don't modify don't customize I don't try to get a little bit better performance

I tend to agree with you. I bought a vehicle because I liked what it is/was so why mess with it? When doing maintenance if I can improve my ride I do. When I changed the plugs I used NGK Iridium and they work GREAT and will probably never need replacement.

Some people buy the wrong vehicle to start then throw money at the project to get better handling or more power. Perhaps if they researched and bought a "crotch rocket" in the first place things might be different LOL The Silver Wing is a scooter DOH and it runs well and reliably and smoothly but it will NEVER handle like a sport bike or run like a Hyabusa... But each to his/her own clown
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Lost it
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 29, 2019 11:52 am

Had it all planned to do a full service on mine this weekend, new filters, oil, belt, install some 26g sliders, but it rained...
I did manage to get the wind deflectors on the hand grips though... And fix the glove box lid that keeps popping up.
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Susie Q600
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 29, 2019 4:23 pm

Yea rain sucks, where did u get ur wind reflectors?
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 01, 2019 1:31 am

Okay, Since I only have put 90,000 miles on my first Silverwing, and don't trade in for a new one when it's time for service, and don't constantly brag about how many millions of miles I've ridden since WWII and tell everyone they should use it just as built, because that's what I do, my word might not carry weight....

Obviously to say that Honda designed and delivered the SW as the one and only configuration is ignorant.

While the Honda Silverwing is right on the money on many, if not most points of engineering, especially the powerplant, it was not properly configured for many of the riders that end up riding one.

First, it was setup for a 150lb rider, and if you are a 150lb rider, and you don't expect miracles, it's probably fine for you without any CVT or suspension improvements.
Most 'Murican males are "a bit" heavier, and, if you have a passenger and/or cargo, you can get up to the structural limit of 366lbs. at this level, it will not perform well.

Don't think it's a lack of engine power, it's gearing.....think sprockets on a standard, sort of.
Nobody says you can't alter their ratio.

However, while the CVT works "OK", it's weight/load sensitive. The heavier the load, the lighter the rollers (or sliders) should be. The reverse is also true, as evidenced by the Japan market units having 35 gram rollers from the factory, and, surprise, surprise....American units are, I believe 28 grams. There is a Honda table of roller weights that shows 3 different weight rollers for different markets.

The suspension is likewise designed and setup for the same weight parameters.
again, if you fall in the upper half you won't see optimal performance.

No matter what you will never turn it into a 600cc Super Sport!
But, you can achieve greater ridability.

That said.....Leave the engine alone, from the airfilter to the muffler. No PowerCommander, no drilled airbox, no aftermarket silencer.....UNLESS you feel like the couple one or two percent of power/torque you'll gain is worth the decrease in wallet weight and will make it go faster.
(Iridium plugs don't really count as an engine mod)

The single most effective thing you can do is tuning the CVT to settle close to the peak power RPM point.

When you get your new-to-you Swing, if it has the original belt, change it.
Ride it for awhile, and say to yourself "Am I having a problem with performance?"
DO NOT change weights or springs until you know that's what you need to do, not just because other riders are doing it.
You might like a slower, more relaxed experience, while someone else might need every bit of performance and their only option is the Swing.

Honda did things the way they did for two reasons.
First was an attempt to make it a "fits everyone" maxi scooter.
The second was driven by the Value Engineering department... "Keep the MSRP as low as possible"
(Not because it couldn't be any better, or because it's only a scooter, so deal with it.)

Imagine what the sticker shock would have been if it had a nice adjustable windshield, a comfortable and supportive seat, a lock-up clutch, adjustable cartridge forks, fully adjustable shocks and a fancy pipe?
....And then, call it a "MAXI-SCOOTER"???...for $13,000 Mmmm, No!

Now, if they called it a "MEGA-SCOOTER", for the American market, and included the above refinements, Honda would not have lost the Scooter Wars.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 01, 2019 1:31 pm

I wouldn't change a belt or pulley at so few miles either. I changed belts on two SWs, my first one which had about 20,000 miles and one on a friends SW that had 17,000 or so miles on it. Neither one really needed a change at that point. Measuring with a dial mike and poking around on the old belts I couldn't see any signs of aging or wear to justify the effort and cost of changing the belts. My first scooter was older than a 2008 is now. Same thing with Dr. Pulley rollers. I installed 26gm rollers into my first SW but don't think there was enough difference to justify it. As a guy who thinks his car runs much better and smoother after an oil change I don't believe in non-quantative opinions. Most of us would 'feel' better performance after working on or modifying a bike. We have to. Just to justify the bother and expense.

As for a variator tool several of us here have made our own tool for a couple of bucks. I made mine out of a 36" of 1x1/8" strap steel and three bolts and nuts from a hardware store. Somewhere on this forum I think we have a picture or drawing.

If you do take things apart be careful of the little wire that goes into the cover over the belt. I don't have a picture of it's location. Probably someone here has a picture or remembers exactly what and where it is.

2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? 78866210
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mondodemundo
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2019 2:37 am

If you really want to make it more enjoyable to ride, the Malossi Variator and Malossi belt would probably give you the best bang for your buck. The Malossi belt is Kevlar, and it is made by Bando, the company that probably made the one you are replacing. Also, I would change the contra spring for their white one and change the springs in the clutch for new ones as well. There transmission works well in a 400, but it's really working hard in a 600, especially if you ride it hard. If you want to do the Dr. Pulley type effect, but don't want to possibly take out your variator, go with lighter rollers. You will get the same sort of effect, but the power curve will be about like stock.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2019 8:54 am

mondodemundo wrote:
If you really want to make it more enjoyable to ride, the Malossi Variator and Malossi belt would probably give you the best bang for your buck. The Malossi belt is Kevlar, and it is made by Bando, the company that probably made the one you are replacing. Also, I would change the contra spring for their white one and change the springs in the clutch for new ones as well. There transmission works well in a 400, but it's really working hard in a 600, especially if you ride it hard. If you want to do the Dr. Pulley type effect, but don't want to possibly take out your variator, go with lighter rollers. You will get the same sort of effect, but the power curve will be about like stock.

Thanks for your opinion. It is always great to have new ideas.

Is the Malossi variator a complete replacement or only the ramp & weight side, albeit with reprofiled ramps, yet still retaining the original Honda fan side sheave? If a complete replacement is the Malossi variator larger in diameter than the original Honda variator?

Doesn’t changing the clutch springs —say to white springs— only cause the clutch shoes to engage the clutch bell at a higher RPM —say at ~3000 rpm vs. ~2100 rpm? And even high engagement RPMs for the red or yellow springs. When the real benefit of an upgraded clutch would be in a clutch which fully engages (i.e. locks) the shoes to the clutch bell at a preferred RPM. So then no more clutch slip.

I never could wrap my head around how changing  the contra spring effects things.

So given that most Silverwings are not ridden aggressively, and not raced, what Malossi-based upgrades would you suggest? And how would those differ from aggressive-rider upgrades?

Tim
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2019 11:35 am

Changing the contra will feel similar to changing roller weight, but will also decrease the degree of the "downshift" effect when you apply throttle from a steady speed.
A stronger contra will decrease belt slap and slippage, but will make belt installation more difficult.
I do not recommend this mod for the average rider!
It will give you an improvement on one aspect, but unless you have a real need and/or desire for changing the mid-point of ratio change bandwidth, and decreasing the rpm rise at cruising speed acceleration for the 40-60 mph range, just leave it as factory configuration.
On the subject of the clutch springs either leave them at the stock tension, weaker springs will give you slip, which will let the engine rpm get closer to the power band during acceleration, but at the cost of burning up the shoes and making dust to grind the belt and bearings.
If you need better performance out of your clutch change it to the Dr Pulley HiT clutch, which is fully adjustable and is a lock-up design, so once you have full engagement it will be a solid connection.
Of course, the most common configuration change is to switch to sliders, which have a shape that allows a lower beginning ratio and a higher top ratio.
Deciding on their weight is dependent on both your weight and load and where you want your rpm to go during the acceleration phase.
Heavier riders need lighter weights.
Lightweight riders can get away with heavier weights without bogging the engine.
Heavy weights can keep the engine rpm lower than the best efficiency rpm.... It's not a V-twin!
Light weights can allow you to be right in the power band as soon as you take off.
My '03 has a heavier contra and 24g sliders, and it settles at 4900-5000 rpm on full acceleration.
My '12 has stock contra with 19g sliders and settles at about 5100-5200,and due to the stock contra the rpm rise is 1000, giving a full-throttle rpm of around 6000.
For a spirited sport rider, who's been sentenced to life on a scooter, this is almost ideal.
I still have to tune the HiT, but out of the box is pretty close to right on the money.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2019 2:51 pm

I wonder about all these modifications-----my SilverWings were used for long trips and just lots of riding......and by leaving things stock, at least I had some chance of Honda dealer helping with either parts in stock/or quick order-----and them not having to work around mods and maybe get me on my way-----delays on trips can be quite expensive.

I view SilverWing as fine as designed and works well as scooter-----if not happy with performance, get something else. Hard to outthink Honda.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 08, 2019 12:07 am

I concur, I haven't made many modifications on any of the three SW's I've owned. Some minor stuff like a throttle holder, top box, and one or two other small mods. Overall the SW is a darned good scooter. Not perfect but very good. I felt the same way about my BMW C650GT, really a fine machine but not perfect. The closest to perfect I ever got on a bike was my 1993 GL1500. In some ways it was better than the newer GL1800s. I've had two of those and still think the GL1500 was one of the best.

We all like to change, modify, and make a vehicle ours. Nothing wrong with that. But it is easier if we start with something very good and that's Honda's products.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 08, 2019 9:15 am

Engineering is an exercise in comprise.
When you design for the widest range of user, those who are farther from the midpoint are not going to have the optimal experience.

When you factor in value engineering, nobody gets what would be possible by setting a higher target price point. You have to be able to sell your machine.

Honda has the most reliable products, and at prices that say "I'll buy the Honda".

There's many members, if not most, whose requirements and physical parameters match the initial engineering goals of Honda, however there's many riders who have ended up with a physical condition that precludes mounting a standard motorcycle.
Some of those riders also now fall outside of the centerpoint of the specified weight capacity.
The SW doesn't do well when loaded close to the max capacity.

Of those riders, some desire an experience that is more in the direction of the ST1100, and some would like a more Goldwing ride.
Most of them would, including me, would prefer to have the GW and/or the ST.
However, if you cant get on it, you can't ride it!

Only make the adjustments and modifications that are easily reversible, and don't adversely effect reliability, and remember that everything is a compromise.
Even replacing Honda's mostly cosmetic "windshield" is going to have an effect on handling.


Suggestions :

Do NOT make modifications to any engine system. Period.

CVT tuning- Only slider/roller weights, don't change the contra spring

Clutch- Don't change the stock springs on the stock clutch, if you want/need better engagement, install the Dr Pulley HiT clutch. It's a proven design, and is easy to change back to OEM.

Suspension- If you have a stock body, and have a plain stock riding style, and your roads are not terrible, the stock fork setup is fine. You should make changes only if rebuilding and fresh fork oil don't solve the problem. More preload and heavier oil will make it ride harsher, and cause more stress on the frame and especially the head bearing.
Add no more than 1/4" of preload, and only if you are a heavy rider, avoid 20w oil, as the effect of better handling is mostly an illusion.
The rear shocks are mostly fine when new, IF you are at the midpoint of the weight capacity and ride more conservatively. Otherwise good aftermarket shocks are not much more than Honda shocks.
Just make sure you get them sprung for your weight and that you get the one's with adjustable rebound, otherwise go to the Honda dealer and order new OEM.

Contact points - Seat, whatever fits your arse! Whether stock, Corbin or Russell, you'll just need to ask your butt at the end of the day! Grips are the same, whatever feels good and looks like what you want.

Windshield - Stock OEM does not give good protection, but it's effect on handling and MPG is negligible, while my '02 with the fixed hight Givi had handling anomalies at higher speeds with it. My '12, with the Airflow model, has much better results.

Let me reiterate, NO Fuel Commander, NO drilling the airbox, NO modding the IAT sensor, No K&N air filter, NO aftermarket silencers, NO improperly wired tailbox lighting, NO swapping out the incandescent bulbs for LED's, and NO HID headlight bulbs.

These suggestions are the result of ACTUALLY riding many of these mods, over the course of 90,000 miles/4 years, and not just hearsay, conjecture, and my spiritual beliefs in the Honda Engineering Gods.
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exavid
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2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 08, 2019 12:33 pm

I completely agree with the above. Other than simple modifications that don't do more than add convenience I don't believe it's beneficial to make major changes to the Silverwing. If it needs that much modifications it would be better to find a bike that more closely fit the requirements of the rider as it came from the factory. If you want a scooter that's fast with excellent handling in the twisties and such the BMW scooter is a better bet. You'll pay a pretty good premium for one over the SW but it will be cheaper than buying a lot of after market stuff for the SW.

I returned to the SW because it more closely fits my needs. It's physical size and performance fits what I want a scooter for. The BMW I had was a lot of fun and was pretty fast with very sporty performance but it really wasn't as easy to handle for me to handle in traffic and tight quarters. Ergo I returned to the fold and got another SW. For my current age and physical condition the SW is easier on my old carcass.
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AldusFran
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Age : 73
Location : Tucson,AZ
Points : 1719
Registration date : 2015-06-13

2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2019 2:13 pm

Susie Q600, I bought my 2004 Silverwing back in March 2019 with 15,500 miles . The belt I believe was the original . I waited (not too smart) until 17,700 miles to install an Erlandson belt ; $84.00 shipped . I've install Erlandson belt on my previous Silverwing and really think this is a quality made belt. I just checked belt condition after 400 miles and notice almost no belt dust in belt housing and belt was nice and tight( no rubbing on upper or lower aluminum housing). It doesn't matter to me if it's not marked Honda.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel

Number of posts : 2825
Age : 80
Points : 7078
Registration date : 2009-08-18

2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2019 5:03 pm

Hope you are not walking in 15,000 miles or so.
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Sidewinder Pilot
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Sidewinder Pilot

Number of posts : 197
Location : Ocala, FL
Points : 1826
Registration date : 2015-05-21

2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2019 8:51 pm

Erlandson is a very good belt, I've been using them for 4 years and 80,000 miles, and when I change them, the wear is almost imperceptible... Very little dust and no grooving on the drive/driven faces.
These aren't the cheap generic Chinesium one's, they're made for performance snowmobile and ATV applications.
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AldusFran
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 114
Age : 73
Location : Tucson,AZ
Points : 1719
Registration date : 2015-06-13

2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 fsc s wing variator,belt ??   2006  fsc s wing variator,belt ?? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13, 2019 3:14 pm

Sidewinder, I'm glad you find the Erlandson belt is well made and also made in the USA. Let other riders pay for the "Honda" name. Thanks
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