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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
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Location : Delray Beach FL
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Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 4:32 pm

I need to make a big Silver Wing decision. Thoughts welcome.

The situation: Invest a fair amount to heal my 2012 of a pesky oil leak or buy a 2013 with no issues (hopefully).

THE 2012 (6,500 miles)
It has a small leak from the weep hole at the bottom of the belt case next to the output shaft. The e'er helpful Tim recalled a member having the same leak. I searched and sure enough, there was the tale of Stainless 601. Same situation exactly.

He solved it with a mighty effort that involved removing the swingarm, rear wheel, three cases that house the belt, two variators and belt, spring and clutch bell, and extracting the transmission gears until he arrived at the output shaft bearing and the leaky seal. That's beyond my capabilities; I do oils, coolant, brake fluid, plugs, filters, etc.

I'm almost afraid to ask my local dealer for an estimate. I found a factory-trained, one-man garage guy who only works on Japanese bikes and comes highly recommended. His rate is $80 an hour (dealer is $120). Either way, let's call it $600, since I'll sell the bike before I'll pay more than that.

OR ..................................

I could sell the 2012 for a 2013. I always figured I'd end up with a '13, since it's the
"newest" Swing, and keep that for years to come.

THE 2013 (3,100 miles)
It's a Louisiana bike repossessed by American Honda, sold at auction in Texas and brought to Florida by the owner of a small dealership. The owner offered me an out the door price of $5,555. The bike is spotless. I ran a VIN check and there are no accidents or flood issues.

I can easily transfer the 2012 goodies to the 2013: Corbin seat, GIVI screen, Battery Tender power socket in the left cubby, RAM mount and On/Off switch in the trunk. I'll buy a new belt for either bike and add 24 gram sliders. For the 2013, I'd update the fluids and filters. No biggie.

So ............................

Door # 1: fix the '12 and spend $600. I keep a bike I already know and love. There is a worst case possibility if the leak doesn't get fixed.

Door # 2: Buy the '13 and spend $1,800 after selling the '12. I get a one-year newer bike with half the miles (and I don't spend/risk $600 to repair the leak).

I'm pretty confident I can get $3,700 for the '12. Prices are NUTS in South Florida. Current craigslist offerings: $4,850 for a '13 with 19,000 miles (with scratches). $4,500 for a '13 with 14,000 miles (with scratches). $3,500 for a '10 with 14,200 miles. $6,000 for an '08 with 7,500 miles (with an idiot for an owner).

The dealer offered a 30-day/1,000 mile warranty on the 2013, split equally. But even then, a new bike could have issues of its own.

Welcome to my world. I worry too much. But I can't complain. Either way, I ride away on a real nice Silver Wing.

Thanks for any thoughts.


Last edited by Delray on Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EvilTwin
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
EvilTwin

Number of posts : 143
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 5:10 pm

Couple of thoughts.  You know what is up with the '12.  Still low mileage and late model.  If you sell it you should disclose the problem leak, if you dont and they happen to log on here, they may find out about it.  Not good Karma.  If you do, it will drop the value of the bike down.  Glad they are selling for better money down in FL, here they seem to sit at those prices and they tend to be older.

The '13 is an unknown quantity.  5500 sounds expensive to me.  And you have to sell the '12 to recoup some of the cost unless you plan to trade it.

I would stick with the '12, it looks like a nice bike.  Fix it up and be done with it.
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The Bern
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
The Bern

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 5:16 pm

EvilTwin wrote:
 If you sell it you should disclose the problem leak, if you dont and they happen to log on here, they may find out about it.  Not good Karma.  
...//...
I would stick with the '12, it looks like a nice bike.  Fix it up and be done with it.

Well said that man thumbs up
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 5:18 pm

Good thoughts, thanks.

That's righteous advice to disclose the leak and maybe drop the price a bit. I would definitely sell the '12 if I buy the '13.

The dealer offered $3,200 on a trade. The price of the '13 is $4,900, but then he has to add 7% state tax, title and tag transfer fee, and Florida's cursed mandatory "document fee."
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john grinsel
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john grinsel

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 5:32 pm

I would look for new leftover 2013---they are still out there---new has Honda warranty, and as 1st owner, you know history of bike.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 6:18 pm

Interesting idea, John. Thanks. A quick search shows they are indeed out there. Found a new 2012 with one year warranty in Winter Haven FL for $5,999. It's a Honda dealer so I'd guess $6,700 out the door. I would love the experience of having a brand new Silver Wing, although that would shift my debate from $600 out of pocket to fix versus $3,000 for brand new.


Last edited by Delray on Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 6:59 pm

Any chance you could talk yourself into removing that swingarm & final drive assembly? If so then you could take it to your mechanic and have him replace those final drive seals. It would sure result in a big cash savings. Then, of course, you'd need to reinstall the swingarm on the scoot.

The process you outline above might sound intimidating but it's really just a few more steps then you've already done when removing the variator and/or rear wheel.

Hey, it's just one bolt at a time.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 7:21 pm

"Any chance you could talk yourself into removing that swingarm & final drive assembly?"

Funny you mention that. I have been sorely tempted to tackle this. I really like working on the Wing. I find the Service Manual clear and helpful. And I find myself able to be patient ... "one bolt at a time."

My first barrier is wondering if I'll really get any big savings taking off the wheel, swingarm and final drive assembly, because I would have to flatbed-tow the bike to the mechanic and pay for that. Wait, let me check to see if I have a handy new F-150 in the driveway.

Nope.  ;o)

Second barrier is the special tools ... clutch bell puller ... don't have a vise to compress the spring, etc. I suppose ordering them for one-time use would still be cheaper than paying a mechanic.

A question: if I go that far, why would I need a mechanic to replace the seals? Seems like seducing a girl to the point of being naked in bed and then saying, "Nahhhh ..."
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gustav
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 65
Age : 67
Location : Davenport, Iowa
Points : 229
Registration date : 2019-04-13

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 9:47 pm

Good evening Mike, Hawkeye Motorworks in Davenport, Iowa has just uncrated yet another 2013 Silverwing, I got mine $6585 out-the-door. Usual dealer rip-offs included! Paul
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gustav
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 65
Age : 67
Location : Davenport, Iowa
Points : 229
Registration date : 2019-04-13

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 9:50 pm

But wait, there's more! How do you like your Givi windshield?
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3170
Age : 76
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 7429
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30, 2019 11:38 pm

The point of removing the swingarm & final drive assembly is so that you would be able to deliver that to your mechanic and he would be able to remove the final drive input shaft/clutch bell/final drive cover as one assembly via the holes in the clutch bell. Of course you would remove the Driven Pulley (clutch) first --one 24 mm nut. No need to compress any springs.

I quite sure that that swingarm assembly will fit in the back of your Prius. No F-150 needed.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

2012 or 2013 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 3:55 am

"But wait, there's more! How do you like your Givi windshield?"

What's not to love? The buffeting and dull roar from the stock screen disappear instantly. I can wear a baseball cap and it doesn't get blown off my head. You can hear the engine. Butterflies float into your new air pocket and alight on your handlebars. Or maybe it just feels that way.

For $99, it's one of the best additions to a Wing. Google "Honda Silverwing windshield" and you'll see the GIVI 214DT. There's also an air flow version.

This particular screen is engineered for a Silver Wing, so the new holes in the screen line up with the existing holes in the bike. Takes 15 minutes to install. Remove four screws that hold on the bat-shaped front cowling, pry that loose and voila, you see six screws holding the windscreen in place. That's it.

Two tips: note the plastic tabs on the back of the cowling (photo). You don't want to break those by tugging in the wrong direction. Proper procedure is to lift up a little to disengage the tab and then pull down toward you. Using a credit card as a tool to separate the cowling from the bike is also helpful.

Second tip: each of the six screws has a rubber grommet attached to its hole on the bike. If you apply too much downward pressure with your screwdriver, they can be pushed into the bowels of the bike.

But wait, there's more!  ;o)

Bonus tip for aesthetics: The big honking GIVI logo on the front of the new screen peels off. I added a Honda logo to the cowling because I want to communicate that I'm riding a Honda, not a GIVI. I think it looks more elegant. The Honda logo decal is available on bikebandit.com for $4.95. It's the same decal on the back of the bike.

2012 or 2013 Windsh12
2012 or 2013 Img_2610


Last edited by Delray on Wed May 01, 2019 4:04 am; edited 2 times in total
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

2012 or 2013 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 3:57 am

"The point of removing the swingarm & final drive assembly is so that you would be able to deliver that to your mechanic and he would be able to remove the final drive input shaft/clutch bell/final drive cover as one assembly via the holes in the clutch bell."

Well, that's positively brilliant. Thanks!
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 4:38 am

Your Givi Windshield------better cut it down so you can see over rather than thru.....before you kill your self or somebody.
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GHM-PM
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GHM-PM

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 8:16 am

Myself? I think I would go with a different scoot (ducking). If this rare occurrence happened on your 2012 could something else be lurking to bite you later? After all it was purchased used so who knows? If you can swing a new Wing go that route, if not the slightly used one. I purchased my 2012 NEW only the 2nd motorcycle I bought new since 1969.. Loved breaking it in MY way and taking care of it.

Since there will be no new Silver Wings, grab one and hold on!

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 7:02 pm

Update on the leak situation for the '12:

I talked to the dealership. The service tech talked to the head mechanic, a great guy named Bill who's been there for 30 years. His first question: "Did he overfill the oil?" (engine oil, specifically)

Well, um, yes, he may have.

I checked the oil a couple weeks ago and wondered at the time if I put too much in. I just couldn't get a good read on the oil stick. It would be past the high mark one time and below it the next, and my location and motion didn't vary.

Anyway, the weep hole leak developed shortly after that. I asked the service tech to ask the mechanic if the seal that's leaking might "heal itself" if I removed oil or changed it. I'll get an answer tomorrow. I also checked the service manual and sure enough, a final drive oil leak can be attributed to a faulty seal, cracked case, or the possible titanic stupidity of yours truly.

I extracted some oil and am waiting for a brief rain shower to pass so I can ride and test the results. If that simple solution doesn't work, or an oil change, the dealership gave me an estimate for $325 to install a new tire AND change the final drive oil seal. I can live with that. I was expecting much worse.

So it looks like I might keep the 2012, although I received two serious inquiries within two hours of posting ads on craigslist, Facebook and Cycle Trader (here, too, of course, as a courtesy in case someone is looking for a new ride or later model). That could still be a fun way to go. I'd feel much better selling with no leak, and I could stick to my price more firmly.

Mike
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
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Mech 1 twa

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 8:32 pm

Over filled what? Engine oil is easy to check must be on center stand. Unscrew stick clean it put into hole without screwing it back in. Level between lines.

Drive is to fill hole. But if over filled it takes quite awhile to drain back out drips very slowly. I'd recheck drive level first before any repairs. Put it on center stand remove fill plug and come back in 30 minutes. No oil in pan you're good.

I over filled mine once and it leaked into belt housing and on belt.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
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Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 9:01 pm

"Drive is to fill hole. But if overfilled it takes quite awhile to drain back out drips very slowly. I'd recheck drive level first before any repairs. Put it on center stand remove fill plug and come back in 30 minutes. No oil in pan you're good."

Great tip on being patient with the gear oil draining back out. Thanks. When I was searching for the source of my weep hole leak I opened the belt case and found dried oil residue -- now I'm wondering if I overfilled that as well last July.

I'm going to change both oils and filter before any repairs. The service tech told me the mechanic was asking about overfilling the engine oil (related to the weep hole leak). I extracted some engine oil and rode the bike hard for half an hour tonight. There was still a bit of oil on the rear rim that had fallen from the weep hole. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'm pretty sure it was considerably less than I've been seeing.

Thank goodness the Wing is engineered to survive amateurs like me.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
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Mech 1 twa

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01, 2019 9:40 pm

I just changed Drive- diff oil last weekend and takes forever to drain back out. I've been using a motorcycle trans lube not motor oils. Bel-Ray 80w85 its not a heavy oil similar to 10w40.
Honda also makes a good oil for gearbox mostly for off road bikes. Pro Honda HP trans oil. 80w85
I just feel it offers better protection for the gears and stays nice and clean between changes.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
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Location : Delray Beach FL
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Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2019 9:16 am

"Honda also makes a good oil for gearbox mostly for off road bikes. Pro Honda HP trans oil. 80w85. I just feel it offers better protection for the gears and stays nice and clean between changes."

Good thought, thanks. I always go with Honda OEM specs but I agree with your thinking here.
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Delray
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Delray

Number of posts : 194
Age : 65
Location : Delray Beach FL
Points : 677
Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeSun May 19, 2019 3:16 pm

Follow up: I appear to have solved my oil leak, and it seems certain that I also created that leak in the first place.

When I described the leak to a dealer mechanic, his first question was, "Did you overfill the oil?" Before my scheduled appointment to search for the leak, I changed the engine and drive oils, and made sure I had the correct amount of oil (or so I thought, more on that in a moment).

The leak was smaller but still present. I remembered that when I added the final drive oil, I turned the rear wheel in its natural direction, similar to the recommendation that you turn the wheel to help push OUT the oil when you drain it. Bad idea. It only works when you drain it. I realized I had probably put too much oil in the final drive.

The next day, I changed the final drive oil again, this time NOT turning the wheel and only putting in EXACTLY .32 liters of oil. The result? The weeping oil leak disappeared completely. It's been gone for several days, over several long rides, and I am confident I won't see it again.

A clear case of my mechanical ingenuity overcoming my mechanical stupidity.


Last edited by Delray on Mon May 20, 2019 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
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Mech 1 twa

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeSun May 19, 2019 8:05 pm

There you go problem solved and no money spent. I over filled rear diff. and needed a new belt but was due soon anyway. Live and learn.

V-light came on Saturday. What the--- then I looked at mileage 16K Reset and kept riding. Belt replaced at 13.5 due to oil.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 or 2013   2012 or 2013 I_icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2019 9:05 am

Delray wrote:
Follow up: I appear to have solved my oil leak [Snip]
The next day, I changed the final drive oil again, this time NOT turning the wheel and only putting in EXACTLY .34 liters of oil. The result? The weeping oil leak disappeared completely. It's been gone for several days, over several long rides, and I am confident I won't see it again. [Snip]

Thanks so much for your follow up, Delray.

We all benefit from shared information.

Tim
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