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 Something funky going on with the front wheel

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EvilTwin
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PostSubject: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:31 pm

I've had the swing for about a year now.  I put new tires on it last year, a set of Perelli Diablos that I had mounted and balanced on the rims.  I did the grunt work of taking the wheels off and remounting them.

A month or so ago I was riding the bike into work.  I had come off the highway onto the ramp and was probably doing about 40-50 and I felt some fairly harsh vibrations which caught me by surprise.  I kept control of the bike and the shaking stopped and I got to work fine.  That type of shaking has not repeated itself, though I have noticed some vibrations coming from the front end where the road isnt that smooth.  A case in point is a section of concrete roadbed that has some sections where it looks like heavy trucks have damaged the surface.  Riding over these parts can make for some funky sensations.

I did check the tightness on the front axle nut and its still properly torqued.  I will probably jack up the front this weekend if I have time and drop the wheel again just to see what I can see.  Curious if the wise folk here have any thoughts about what if anything might be going on.  BTW, bike is a 2009 and has about 5600 miles on it and Im the second owner.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 pm

Its not the tire or anything wrong. Not the best fork, suspension on SW.
Rough road surface can cause tires to skip slide at times. Head shake when bars swap back and forth is a issue when slowing worse with some tires. Bias ply tires tend to follow grooves in road. Small tires don't help.

Your bike is almost 10 years old time for a fork oil change. Oil gets thicker with age not thinner.
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:15 am

There's a couple of spots here like that. One is in town where the speed limit is 45 mph. The front end doesn't really shake but it isn't smooth either. My pickup doesn't like that stretch either. There's another area about 1/4 mile north of town on a 2 lane road that neither of my vehicles really like.

Other than that I haven't had much of a problem. I also had Pirelli Diablos on the SWing before the trike conversion and the front tire is still the Diablo.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:20 am

Head Shake is probably what you experienced----common on many bikes on de-cel...do you have big top box loaded on back? That can make problem worse. Both hands on bars help you keep in control.
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EvilTwin
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:22 am

john grinsel wrote:
Head Shake is probably what you experienced----common on many bikes on de-cel...do you have big top box loaded on back? That can make problem worse.  Both hands on bars help you keep in control.

There is a bestem box on the back, but it is usually empty since I store the helmet in there when its parked.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:01 am

As Mech 1 says, renew your fork oil + while you're in that area, check the adjustment & lubrication of the steering head bearings bud.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:13 am

Might add----get Honda recommended tires for the model and year---think Bridestone Hoops were recommended....but no longer. New 2013 leftover had IRC on and were recommended in owner's book. I had good luck with them as far as handling.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am

john grinsel wrote:
Head Shake is probably what you experienced----common on many bikes on de-cel...do you have big top box loaded on back? That can make problem worse.  Both hands on bars help you keep in control.

I've been going over a 10 mile stretch of road here in North Yorkshire since early this year that has had the surface planed off and grooved all along it's length, similar to the rain grooves encountered on autobahns. Hopefully it's for resurfacing work, although there seems to no signs of man, machines, materials, or activity anytime I've ridden along it.

Driving in the car you don't notice it, but you certainly do on the Silver Wing where you can feel the tyres squirming on the grooves. Slowing down or speeding up has little effect, and as it's a busy road most of the day where traffic is usually doing 50 to 60 mph.

I'm just aware of a slightly unnerving sensation through the handle bars, similar to when you suspect you may have a puncture.

Both hands are the bars anyway, I mean who actually rides one handed unless it's for a few seconds to flip a visor or sun visor up and down, adjust the helmet for comfort, or intercom for volume.

That old chestnut about a top box causing problems is a myth. Having a top box fitted makes no difference whatsover, as mine is almost empty on my outward journey and heavily loaded with groceries, produce, or whatever on the return trip.

It's also fully loaded with a pack full of overnight gear everytime I go touring and I can ride all day and don't notice it's there. I'd go from 55 to 58 litres, but I already have another 52 litre box taking up shelf space in my garage.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:24 pm

I doubt it's the topbox. As Meldrew says its pretty much a myth, the only time I've experienced topbox wobbles is well beyond the sw top speed, actually well into very naughty speeds.
If the wobble is only occuring one certain stretches of road I would suspect the road.
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EvilTwin
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:13 pm

So I've searched a bit online and through old posts here and otherwise and have some questions.

In order to do a fluid change on the fork struts I have to drop them out.  I saw one post where the whole front ends worth of tupperware was removed.  Looking at the bike just now, it looks like the fork tubes are held in the stem by two compression fittings that open and close with two hex head bolts.  Can I remove the wheel, fender and brake assembly and then just loosen the bolts and drop each tube out?  

I also saw lots of posts regarding upgraded springs such as hyperpro.  These look to be mostly available in Europe, does anybody have a good link to a source for these or some other brand in the US?  If I am going to go to all the trouble of pulling these out, I might as well do the upgrade as well.  

I'm no expert in bikes, but I have done quite a bit of mechanical work over the years.  My impression of the front suspension on this bike is that it is pretty soft and I'm not a lightweight either so that doesnt help.  The polished part of the inner fork looks to go all the way to the top, so I'm thinking this suspension has bottomed out more than once or twice.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:15 pm

I would expect that if the forks have bottomed out you would know about it (usually checking your underwear would give a good clue). Before you go too far down the strip down route put a marker on the forks and see what happens during regular riding (markers can be cable ties, elstic bands, chalk marks or whatever you care to devise).
Bit if the urge to strip it down is there then just crack on lol.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:04 am

EvilTwin wrote:

In order to do a fluid change on the fork struts I have to drop them out.  I saw one post where the whole front ends worth of tupperware was removed.  Looking at the bike just now, it looks like the fork tubes are held in the stem by two compression fittings that open and close with two hex head bolts.  Can I remove the wheel, fender and brake assembly and then just loosen the bolts and drop each tube out?  

Please see this thread for fork removal instructions bud .......... http://www.silverwing600.com/t10477-fitting-hyperpro-front-springs
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Hyperpro springs can be purchased is US.  EMP Performance Imports.  NJ. based company selling many different brands of suspension parts. I bought mine there.   $159 springs and oil.
Rec. flushing oil  with a qt  some other fork oil and a good drain.   Only 1 qt. with kit and you will need about 20 oz to fill forks.  

Its not a hard job its hard to get a torque wrench in there to tighten bolts.  3/8 wrench just fits and need to turn forks left or right for clearance.  Short 6 point sockets are needed. 14mm

Even with new springs SW fork has its issues.   Springs help with compression but rebound it still to fast.. Thicker oil helps.

Some of roads in PA. are bad and I tend to ride at a faster pace.
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cube
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:00 am

Check your fender bolts, especially the ones behind the reflector. Mine did that wobble on road grooves and I discovered that both right side fender nuts were very loose. I think that since the fender also seems to serve as a fork brace that if it's loose we get more movement. Tightening them made it go away for me.

Also, does anyone know the torque specs for those bolts? Didn't see one in the Service Manual and one bolt was loose again today.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:37 am

I wouldn't know about the FSC version, as we got the proper FJS Silver Wing here in the UK (HISS, 12v glovebox socket) and on mine there's a sort of metal fork brace that sits under the front mudguard/fender and is secured by the same four bolts. I replaced the OE nuts with Nyloc ones the first time I took the mudguard off to fit a mudflap and they're fine.

The torque values are in General Information 1-11 in the Service Manual. It has the Fastener Type and Torque for various nuts bolts and screws at the top of the page, and for the front fork socket bolt on 1-13.

As there's not much room to play with these bolts, it's just as easy to nip them up tight with a drop of thread lock, or fit Nyloc nuts.
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cube
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:30 pm

Thanks Meldrew. I was planning on a little thread lock (I picked up some blue last night), so now that you pointed me to the right spot in the Manual I should be set.

It's too bad Honda didn't see fit to give us the power socket here (I plan to fit one anyway), but I'm sure the thinking on HISS was that most Americans wouldn't be caught dead on a Honda scooter when there are Harleys to be had so no one would steal one! Laughing
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Toolman
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 pm

EvilTwin wrote:
I've had the swing for about a year now.  I put new tires on it last year, a set of Perelli Diablos that I had mounted and balanced on the rims.  I did the grunt work of taking the wheels off and remounting them.

A month or so ago I was riding the bike into work.  I had come off the highway onto the ramp and was probably doing about 40-50 and I felt some fairly harsh vibrations which caught me by surprise.  I kept control of the bike and the shaking stopped and I got to work fine.  That type of shaking has not repeated itself, though I have noticed some vibrations coming from the front end where the road isnt that smooth.  A case in point is a section of concrete roadbed that has some sections where it looks like heavy trucks have damaged the surface.  Riding over these parts can make for some funky sensations.

I did check the tightness on the front axle nut and its still properly torqued.  I will probably jack up the front this weekend if I have time and drop the wheel again just to see what I can see.  Curious if the wise folk here have any thoughts about what if anything might be going on.  BTW, bike is a 2009 and has about 5600 miles on it and Im the second owner.

I have the similar issue going on. Are your tires cupped? Mine are and I'm thinking this is the problem. I'm looking for help from the guys here.
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EvilTwin
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:52 am

Toolman wrote:


I have the similar issue going on. Are your tires cupped? Mine are and I'm thinking this is the problem. I'm looking for help from the guys here.

Nope, tires are pretty new, probably about 1000 miles on em by now.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Something funky going on with the front wheel   Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:32 am

Have you checked the steering head bearings? At only 5600 miles it is unlikely that there is a problem there, but it is sure worth a check.
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