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 Fitting hyperpro front springs

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GeoffM
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PostSubject: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Ok, so I've ordered a hyperpro progressive fork spring kit for my Swing, I've change fork springs on m/c's in the past and have done this with the forks in situ, just removing the caps and swapping the springs. Can you do this with the Silverwing? or is it more involved. I know I'll have to remove some of the tupperware to get at the fork tops. I couldn't find a decent decription anyware in the forum after searching.

Geoff.



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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:12 pm

Drop the legs out bud, using a jack on the frame under the engine, lift the front wheel off the ground, remove the brake caliper & pipe clamp, remove wheel, remove mudguard, now remove the legs, to do this first remove the TOP bolt completely, then slacken the bottom bolt enough to allow the leg to slide out of the bottom yolk/'triple tree'

The reason for removing the top bolt (completely) first is that the stanchion has a locating groove machined into it, if you slacken the bottom bolt first the weight of the leg makes removing the bolt a pain in the butt.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:20 pm

That ^^^^ or if you fancy a ride out, pop up to mine & I'll show you how, strip & refit takes 1 - 1 1/2 hours (depending on how free things are)
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:23 pm

Or you could remove the Front Cover (fairing) and probably the Combination Meter (Dash) then the take the fork caps off and remove the springs. Then you'll need some sort of suction device to empty the fork fluid from the fork tubes.

So it's much less aggravation to follow The Bern's advice.
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GeoffM
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:04 pm

The Bern wrote:
That ^^^^ or if you fancy a ride out, pop up to mine & I'll show you how, strip & refit takes 1 - 1 1/2 hours (depending on how free things are)

That's great advice, I've stripped forks before, so I'll do it the way you suggest, it will give me the opportunity to give them a good inspection. should be ok, it's only done 5k miles.

Thanks for that Bern.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:28 pm

I knew I'd written a diatribe before on another forum, so here goes (diatribe & my subsiquent posts in that thread + a footnote) .....

Cool, my method ....
Bike on centre stand, put a car scissor jack under the subframe (hiding under a rubber flap) just ahead of the oil filter, raise until front wheel is just off the ground.
Remove brake caliper & pipe clamp.
Remove front wheel
Remove front mudguard
Undo hose clamp on steering yoke, lift hose over & to the rear of the yoke (fiddly but 'do-able') tie calliper to handlebar to stop it pulling on the pipes.
Now it's just a matter of undoing the pinch bolts & sliding the legs out, the TOP bolt needs to be removed FIRST this is important because there is a locating groove in the leg, the weight of the leg on that bolt makes it bind & becomes a right bugger to get out (I found out the hard way), now you should only need to slacken the lower bolt, if it's too tight for the leg to drop out simply lever the yoke slit open a little.

OK legs are out, this is where the large vice comes in Wink , get a couple of bits of wood & cut a 'V' in each, now 'trap' the leg in the 'V's & clamp in the vice, with a six sided socket (not a twelve sided as it can round off the corners) & knuckle bar 'crack' the bolt + 1 turn, now remove the knuckle bar & fit a T bar, continue to undo the bolt while at the same time pushing down (the spring is under compressive preload by the bolt, NOT pushing down WILL result in bit flying around suddenly, also there is a risk of injury).
Put bolt & washer/distance piece somewhere clean, lift out spring, remove from vice & drain oil by tipping into bucket (or similar) & pumping to help clear the damper.

Optional ... Flush out any remaining oil by putting 250cc (or so) of 5w fork oil, reassemble leg & pump 15 to 20 times then drain

Put in specified amount of fork oil 7.5w - 15w, personally I favour Castrol or Silkolene but there are many other makes out there to chose from.

Re-assembly is basically the reverse process except that you will need a piece of 8mm rod with a taper ground/turned on one end to act as a locating tool, to get the leg in the right place relevant to the top bolt hole, fully tighten & torque up the lower pinch bolt, remove locating tool & fit the top bolt, pop it back together go out & enjoy :D

Will post torque settings, fluid capacity & other tech 'guff' this evening as my tying finger is now knackered Wink

....//....

Cheers, no prob's, getting the pinch bolts out then in again is a bit fiddly, but compared to the time needed to remove masses of plastic panels, it's a 'no brainer'.
Regarding the oil, order a litre (or one & a half if flushing), the initial capacity is 300cc per leg which is then 'fine tuned' by measurement after pumping several times to release any trapped air.

....//....

Right ho, back on topic ............

you initially put 300cc in each leg, pump it to force out any trapped air (as per the video) when all traces of bubbles are gone push the tube into the stanchion & measure from the top of the tube to the fluid surface & top-up as necessary to achieve a dimension of 97mm

Put the spring in closed coils down & reassemble (incase you do find secondhand springs at some point in the future, the service limit of the free length is 325mm any shorter & it's worn out)

Torque settings ...
Fork cap ................. 32Nm (2.3kgf/m .. 16lbf/ft)
Yolk pinch bolts .......... 69Nm (7.0kgf/m ..51lbf/ft)
Front axle bolt ........... 59Nm (6.0kgf/m .. 43lbf/ft)
Axle pinch bolts .......... 22Nm (2.2kgf/m .. 16lbf/ft)
Caliper mounting bolts .. 42Nm (4.3kgf/m .. 31lbf/ft)

Footenote ...

You will see in my original post I put .... "Put the spring in closed coils down" .... during conversation in that thread I was advised by Flyingpanman (also a member on here) that Hyperpro recommend their springs are fitted with closed coils upward.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:45 pm

THE BERN covered it. Its tight at the top but no need to remove any plastic parts.
After removing forks turn them down and pump them to remove old oil. Add a little new oil and pump them in normal position then repeat draining them.  Flushes old stuff out.

Oil level should be measured from top of tube fully compressed NO spring. I don't remember the height but its more accurate than just adding a certain amount . Hyperpro instructions should list it.
Fork oil with Hyperpro is different weight and its needed to get the most from spring change. Fork oil needs to be serviced with age, time anyway. It's harder on SW than some of your past bikes and you will need a torque wrench also and short sockets for clearance.
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GeoffM
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:53 am

As usual from all you guys, good solid information and advice, thanks.

Geoff.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:07 am

Mech 1 twa wrote:
THE BERN covered it. Its tight at the top but no need to remove any plastic parts.
After removing forks turn them down and pump them to remove old oil. Add a little new oil and pump them in normal position then repeat draining them.  Flushes old stuff out.

Oil level should be measured from top of tube fully compressed NO spring. I don't remember the height but its more accurate than just adding a certain amount . Hyperpro instructions should list it.
Fork oil with Hyperpro  is different weight and its needed to get the most from spring change.  Fork oil needs to be serviced with age, time anyway.  It's harder on SW than some of your past bikes and you will need a torque wrench also and short sockets for clearance.

Honda WSM says 97mm for oil level but Hyperpro may specify a different height (I was doing fluid change only), as you say it's a bit tight, I used ring spanners to loosen bolts & 'loosely tighten' them, final torqueing was done with a 3/8" drive torque wrench & as you say, a short series socket, I used a six sided one as it seemed easier to get it seated squarley on the bolt head.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:01 am

Thank you gents, printed this gem and it will go in with others I have.
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GeoffM
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:20 am

Hyperpro springs are fitted, whole job took me 2 1/2 hours quite a simple job in the end, the only awkward bit is removing and replacing the triple clamp bolts, not much room when you leave all the plastics on. Only given the s/wing a short test ride so far but the improvement was immediately obvious, the bike is much less nervous at the front, and doesn't tuck at lower speed especially when negotiating junctions and roundabouts. All in all I am well pleased. Next mod will be to replace the rear shocks for some Hagon ones.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:32 am

Interesting, I've been on some serious twisties here in Germany in the last week, and I haven't given the front or rear suspension on my bog standard Silver Wing a single thought.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:17 pm

Agree with Mildrew---my 2 SilverWings worked fine standard...loaded for touring. I never tried to make them something they were not.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:47 pm

While I, like Mildrew (hi bud) & Mr. Grinsel have never felt the need to modify the spring/shocks on my SilverWing & accept it for what it is, I do understand the need for some to try to change the handling charicteristics of a scooter/motorcycle to suit their 'riding style'/environment.

Horses for courses & all that
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 am

I'm afraid I don't understand the need to change perfectly serviceable items at all bud, the front suspension on my Silver Wing works and feels just like any other set of tele forks I've had on bikes and maxi scooters.

I'm not buying into this nonsense about tucking in at roundabouts, junctions, turns, feeling less planted or whatever, so you need to fit HyperPro springs.

From what I've gathered from reading numerous posts on here is, members that feel the need to fit them are usually owners that are new to maxi scooters. Instead of clocking up a few hundred miles familiarising themselves with their newly aquired Silver Wing, they expect it to be a twist n'go motorcycle which it isn't.

Then I've no doubt they start reading topics on here and there's always someone plugging their uprated fork springs. Of course no one says, well I've fitted these things and I really needn't have bothered, they're another just another set of fork springs.

I got back from Germany yesterday and after over 1100 miles of fast autobahn riding with the Silver Wing loaded up, enjoying quiet country roads, the ups and downs and bends of the Harz, the 'bikers proving ground' of the Kyffhäuser, a few stretches of cobbled roads, and the odd traffic jam due to serious crashes or roadworks.

That's not my normal environment, I'm riding on the right side of the road, using roundabouts the opposite way, regular changes in elevation, autobahns with anything from two to four lanes etc. Yet not once did I feel even when the scooter was fully loaded (a well packed Ortlieb bag makes a great back rest), that my front or rear suspension weren't up to the job. Rear shocks stayed on 3.

My normal riding style isn't clocking up fast autobahn miles having to constantly overtake long lines of trucks, or getting a monotonous 90 miles section done ASAP. Neither is riding through forests, in heavy city traffic, or on roads forever changing due to improvements and construction, with constantly amending road signs.

The main thought about the trip apart from taking too much stuff for cold weather instead of the hot weather I experienced, was that my Continental ContiMove 365 tyres are a far superior tyre to the Bridgestone Hoops I've always used, apart from the wear rate of course.
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GeoffM
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:43 am

Whilst I respect the views of others, to me, the improved feeling of the front end makes me feel a lot more secure and in control. I have probably ridden close to 700,00 miles over the last 45 years, and certainly know what I like in terms of roadholding and a sort of sure footed feeling, particularly at the front end. As Bern put it horses for courses, or maybe a better way to put it is riding any motorised two wheeler is a very personal thing, I'm happy with the change, and just wanted to give an honest opinion from my perspective.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:57 am

I've been riding about the same time has you mate, but half of that time has been on maxi scooters and I started when the only choice available to me was a Honda CN250 Helix as a 'grey import' back in '96. I thought I'd try it for a year and go back to bikes, but I never did and there's currently nothing on the market that interests me in the slightest.

So as my motorcycling years are now nothing but memories, fading 35mm photos, and a few rally souvenirs, maybe I'm more tuned in to what maxi scooters are all about and what they're capable of.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:41 am

Meldrew, that could well be the case, I'm still exploring the riding experience on the s/wing, this being my first scooter of any size. It is obviously quite different from a true motorcycle, and particularly the more sporty bikes I used to favour (before they ruined my back, and knees).
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:09 am

Geoff, one bit of advice, hang onto the Honda springs bud, at some point you may want/need to revert to them. We did have one UK member who brought a Silverwing that the previous owners had fitted Hyperpro's to & he hated the ride, with his back problems & a bit of arthritis as well he found it to be a harsh ride. Even if you don't ever change back it would be nice to pass them on to the new owner should you ever sell it.
Anyhoo enough pontificateing, the sun's shining, so get out & enjoy riding your new machine Smile
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:18 pm

If you feel the ride is to stiff with new springs after riding awhile I'd try a different oil weigh first.
Fork oil is hard to choose. One company"s 10w could be anothers 15w.....

Hyperpro oil is 20w. I haven't been able to find the viscosity for it anywhere other than 20w.
Fork oil is almost as bad as engine oils so many different types.

I want to buy shocks someday but I also want to pay a few things off first. Time to ride its been a long winter.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:17 am

Indeed, try different oils was the advice I gave, but he did not seem overly mechanically minded, he was a UK member who I think got himself a 'time out' but didn't return, so I have no idea as to the final outcome.
As you say SAE viscosity is a bit variable, the centistroke system is more accurate, but takes a bit of 'getting your head round'. if you know the maker of the Hyperpro oil then go to this page ... http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid .... scroll down past the technical guff, there is a comparisson list for a wide range of manufacturers & their products.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting hyperpro front springs   Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:56 pm

I agree. I do have that list of fork oils but Hyperpro is not there and can't find the maker .

That list is a bit dated. I've used it for years but still has good info.

Centistrokes is the true viscosity and how oil flows and changes with temp. Good advice again. Thanks.
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